Ideas to keep warm?

[SheffieldSteel]

I'm wondering about this also as I plan to do a lot of overnights in the mountain passes here next year. Maybe @sapto or @shane have experience and can comment.

No idea about the heater issue. I never use the heater in the night, just sleeping bag and quilt on top, windows open with the cold breeze. Lovely

 

[bvirc]

@zeratul - the skiing picture (of me) was taken last Christmas in Obertauern, Austria, close to Salzburg.
At the moment there is not (yet) enough snow for any ski touring or off piste skiing, but the pistes are already well prepared. It is a very popular resort & off piste destination among Austrians, Germans, Slovenians and Croats with camper stop and campings in the neighbourhood. But I prefer staying at their main parking lot.

Q&A taken from the Eberspacher website:
Q. Will my heater operate when travelling across mountain ranges?
A. Yes, dependant upon the altitude. The heaters are designed to operate up to 1500m but can still operate above this level for short periods of time especially if ‘driving through’ but if it is intended to remain at a higher level for extended periods of time, it is recommended that the ‘High Altitude Kit’ is installed to allow it to operate correctly. This kit will allow the heater to operate at altitudes between 1500m and 2750m.

 

[estresao]

Where did you get the ‘High Altitude Kit’? Do VW install it?

(Sorry if you already said, reading using my phone)

 

[Hotel California]

Where did you get the ‘High Altitude Kit’? Do VW install it?

(Sorry if you already said, reading using my phone)

http://sales.butlertechnik.com/eber...rtronic-heater-high-altitude-kit-221000332200

And

http://www.rixens.com/wp-content/up...dronic-Altitude-Sensor-Installation-Guide.pdf

 

[bvirc]

My High altitude kit was installed by an authorized Eberspacher service and was also bought there in a package. There is quite a lot of digging and mining which I obviously didn't want to do by myself

 

[snowy55]

Where did you get the ‘High Altitude Kit’? Do VW install it?

(Sorry if you already said, reading using my phone)

Buy the kit and have it fitted by an official Eberspacher dealer, DO NOT trust a Vw dealership to do the job.

 

[estresao]

I've got a question... Does "living room" glasses get condensarion on Calis SE?

On Cali Beach rear's windows it also do because they are not double glasses.

 

[WelshGas]

I've got a question... Does "living room" glasses get condensarion on Calis SE?

On Cali Beach rear's windows it also do because they are not double glasses.

Yes, if you have inadequate ventilation. Condensation will appear on any cold surface if the air inside is humid and warm.

 

[estresao]

I see, but I guess it doesn't happens as easy as in a Cali Beach

 

[WelshGas]

I have heated rear window - can get condensation. Sliding windows are not double glazed. But with adequate ventilation no problem. Camped over weekend up north. Ventilation + Heater on 1 overnight. about 5 cms bottom of windscreen. All other windows clear and that was probably because of the windscreen blind/curtain position.

 

[estresao]

OK, I think for my Cali Beach, aside of the ventilation allowed by my Dubflecta deflectors, I'll get some windows isolators, similar to Brandrup Isolite

 

[larrylamb]

WG do you not have a double glazed rear window?

 

[WelshGas]

WG do you not have a double glazed rear window?

No. I wanted the heated rear screen.

 

[estresao]

My intention was get double glasses in my Beach but at then, with the "help" of my dealer I got double glasses, but the ones for the noise rather than for the temperature

 

[Yorkie]

I don't really understand where all this paranoia of using the original SE parking heater is coming from... Were there any cases of suffocation or is it just an urban legend? I can't believe that VW would afford to let us using it with no limitations or safety disclaimers.
We spend almost 100 nights per year in the Cali in temperatures down to -15C and up to 2400 m with a lot of snow in the Alps in conditions similar to the pics below. And definitely there is no real need to sleep in cold or under 4 seasons duvet or sleeping bag unless it is your choice. On contrary, you can have really warm and cosy nights and it is easy to simulate a sauna there if you prefer

My personal experiences and opinions that are not necessarily shared by others are:
- The parking heater is perfectly safe to use all night long and the thermostat would turn it on and off.
- For longer use at altitudes higher than 1.500 m you need to upgrade it with the high altitude kit, installed by a certified Eberspacher service. You can still use original setup at higher altitudes for a shorter periods of time (e.g. few hours) but I wouldn't risk longer camping at some mountain passes or ski resorts without the upgrade. ( http://www.pfjones.co.uk/eberspacher-airtronic-d2-kit-12-volt-high-altitude-kit.html )
- Diesel fumes that you can notice sometimes in the initial stage are normal and harmless
- Using the heater constantly keeps your fresh water tank functional down to -15C and your grey waste tank down to -10C according to my experience. However, living in such extreme conditions is another story with other problems occuring (ice accumulating between the doors seals, etc.)
- Insulated screens are essential and make huge difference in freezing conditions
- Below 10C it is perfectly fine for 2 persons to sleep with sealed windows and doors - there is still a basic air circulation obviously through the ventilation system, definitely enough to keep fresh air and almost no condensation. Even in the morning you can not notice any bad air feeling.
- You can sleep in the pop-up roof down using some kind of a topper or screens with just a few degrees difference between lower and upper compartments while using a heater of course. I personally prefer 5 mm foil screens that insulate better than standard toppers or the Brandrup ISO Top.
- For the winter use it is a smart move to use propane gas instead of butane, because propane works better in cold. I even changed a Campingaz bottle with alternative ALU one and changing a safety valve. I think that in Norway this is even a standard Cali gas setup.

All in all, with these basic measures I enjoy winter nights in t-shirt, shorts and a light duvet that doesn't take too much space and I add some pics for inspirations.
View attachment 10019 View attachment 10020 View attachment 10021 View attachment 10022 View attachment 10023 View attachment 10024 View attachment 10025

I know this an old post but you say VW wouldn't let us use the heater without a warning. My 2014 SE has a stark warning in the supplementary handbook. Use the heater and you may die.

It isn't quite as as stark as that but enough to stop us using it till we got advice from this forum.

I will buy a CO monitor and happily use it now though.

 

[Guy12]

This has always worked for us in the alps, lovely and warm in the hotel

 

[Borris]

My children and I are finding it a bit cold now and wondered if anyone has any tips on how to keep warm when the temperature drops at night? Thanks!

IMO the trouble is that with the standard T5 Cali roof bellows you can feel the cold air coming through the canvas when it's chilly outside. This is accentuated when it's windy. If the canvas gets wet then so might your bedding as well. This issue may sap the heat from your van especially during the night if you don't have the heater on. I don't know about the situation with the T6 roof bellows yet. We also have a T6 Beach but fitted it with a Brandrup Isotop 1V as soon as we got it so I really don't know how the new T6 roof canvas behaves on it's own in wet and windy weather.

If you haven't already got one, consider fitting an internal roof liner. Both Brandrup and Comfortz make them. Whilst I don't know how good the Comfortz one is, if it is anything like the rest of their products it will be excellent. We have the Brandrup Gortex internal liner which they call the Isotop 1V. It is an excellent fit and keeps the van very much warmer and draught free. It also keeps every thing on the top deck dry if the main roof canvas gets wet. Both makes of internal liners are not sealed at the top where they touch the ceiling so you still have a little bit of necessary ventilation.

These liners are an expensive accessory to buy but IMO they do make a massive difference. We haven't needed the heater on during the night and we have been using our vans in all weathers and temperatures. We use a three season sleeping bag upstairs and it's always cosy.

Finally the belt and braces way of making your Cali warmer is to fit an internal liner and an external topper. You could even use the excellent vehicle parking heater as well if you have one.

 

[BerndRos]

Standard bellows and a Duvalay....with maybe a blanket on top....saw me ok in pending winter in Romania & Bulgaria before dropping down to Istanbul....

 

[Velma's Dad]

Great that this thread got bumped now we're in winter season again. Maybe it will encourage those who've been shy of cold-weather Cali'ing to give it a go.

My take-outs from re-reading the stuff from 2015:

- SE aux heater is indeed pukka kit (which I knew, having tried keeping it on all night on level 1 when freezing outside, lovely!).

- The apparently very low risk of CO poisoning from diesel exhaust, versus petrol engines, means it's quite safe to run heater while asleep. (I still have a CO detector, 'cos as WelshGas pointed out there is a serious risk from the gas burners.)

- Importance of ventilation. Obv. knew that to prevent condensation, but never realised how CO2 build-up affects your body (thanks again WG).

Just to add my vote in the unresolvable sleeping bag vs. duvet debate (like you care...): I have a faithful Rab down bag for camping, but in the van it's a duvet all year round. It just gets stuffed into a dry bag when we're on the road then properly aired once we get home.

 

[GillianC]

Spent a freezing cold couple of nights last weekend st the ccc site in Devizes.
Slept downstairs and found it much warmer by leaving the roof up, pulling down the top bed and closing the shutter to the top. Then just put the heater on in the morning and push the bed up again.
Memory foam topper and down duvet keeps me snug and in the morning just fold the whole thing together back onto the shelf , put the seat up and do the reverse at night. Simples.

 

[Kmann]

Like many, this is an interesting tread. What a superb community we have!

Reading thru its obvious that there are many differed needs and opinions on this matter. Not surprisingly its a personal matter what you want to sleep in and with … ;-)

But a few things peaks out to me as key elements when sleeping out in the cold.

Use the heater
I do not understand why some do not dare to use the heater thru the night. That is one of the mayor advantages of the California. We always use the heater as per reflect when its cold - day or night. I was not aware of the altitude kit – good to know!

Airflow
That sufficient airflow is important (just like in your house/appartment). How you do this, is more a personal preference. We have wind deflectors, and do open the one or both sidewindows a bit (depends on the winddirection). But only when the roof is down, and that is rare btw. we love to sleep up. Then the airwents and windows in the bellows are sufficient. We never set the air on Re-Circulation when parked.

Topper
That it is a great advantage to have a topper. If you i.e. sleep in heavy rain the water will evaporate from the wet bellows and that process will generate a cooling effect, making it colder inside. With the topper you move the evaporation and the air between the bellows and topper will create isolation, like in other circumstances like wind, snow, mist, etc. It reduces noise and light in the morning. And protects.

Cover up
And the Windscreen cover is also a great thing. It gives isolation and therefore reduces condensation. It keeps the windows free from ice, ready to drive away. Even in the summer it is a good protection against the heat and sun.

Besides we also bring a woolen blanket and one to two sheepskins for the seats. very nice and cozy when really cold.

Happy Winter and Cali X-mas ;-)

(Still no Christmas emojis?)

 

[WelshGas]

Like many, this is an interesting tread. What a superb community we have!

Reading thru its obvious that there are many differed needs and opinions on this matter. Not surprisingly its a personal matter what you want to sleep in and with … ;-)

But a few things peaks out to me as key elements when sleeping out in the cold.

Use the heater
I do not understand why some do not dare to use the heater thru the night. That is one of the mayor advantages of the California. We always use the heater as per reflect when its cold - day or night. I was not aware of the altitude kit – good to know!

Airflow
That sufficient airflow is important (just like in your house/appartment). How you do this, is more a personal preference. We have wind deflectors, and do open the one or both sidewindows a bit (depends on the winddirection). But only when the roof is down, and that is rare btw. we love to sleep up. Then the airwents and windows in the bellows are sufficient. We never set the air on Re-Circulation when parked.

Topper
That it is a great advantage to have a topper. If you i.e. sleep in heavy rain the water will evaporate from the wet bellows and that process will generate a cooling effect, making it colder inside. With the topper you move the evaporation and the air between the bellows and topper will create isolation, like in other circumstances like wind, snow, mist, etc. It reduces noise and light in the morning. And protects.

Cover up
And the Windscreen cover is also a great thing. It gives isolation and therefore reduces condensation. It keeps the windows free from ice, ready to drive away. Even in the summer it is a good protection against the heat and sun.

Besides we also bring a woolen blanket and one to two sheepskins for the seats. very nice and cozy when really cold.

Happy Winter and Cali X-mas ;-)

(Still no Christmas emojis?)

 

[Bellesca]

This has always worked for us in the alps, lovely and warm in the hotel




View attachment 18036

Is that in Morzine?