Is the GC a fail?

[Jimmylondon07]

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone who owns a GC as they clearly are lovely vehicles and and a discerning purchse for the right person. However without going into too much detail I am a subject matter expert on vehicle economics and nothing is a more accurate gauge of desirabity than resale values & discounts. The Cali has bulletproof residuals which are almost unparalleled in the industry, built to order brands such as RR or Ferrari don't enjoy the same residuals as the Cali. Currently there are discounts of nearing 20k on a new GC and the last time VW offered anything similar was the Phaeton if anyone can remember that. Ultimately the residuals were savage on that car and it was abandoned after a few years due to the competition being so much better.

My knowledge on these vehicles is nowhere near that of the experts on this forum. But purely from a financial perspective, make sure you secure a significant discount on a GC if you're buying new and be cognisant that you may take a fairly big hit when you sell in the future.

I’d agree that it won’t hold its value anywhere near as well as a regular Cali but the Cali serves a slightly different market in my view (a much larger one at that). I haven’t looked in to the segment in too much detail but with the current discounts the Grand Cali is competing on price with mostly Fiat Ducato based vans from motorhome manufacturers. I’d be interested to see how the depreciation compares to one of those for example, I don’t think you can compare it to a regular Cali.

 

[kave]

Apart from Top Gear Magazine, No one who gets a loaner from the manufacturer gives you an honest review. As an influencer it’s hard as it is to get a loaner so they can’t be negative.

“ these lights are so easy to turn on”, “ the bed is so secure”. I would say this is a walk around tour like California Chris. I can hear VW marketing dept choosing this influencer:
1 Good looking woman
2 Small child
Being an influencer becomes harder for every day. So many now that won’t get payed anymore for all their work. I guess this couple might not even got paid at all by VW, their payment was the loan of the van and VW got a free walk around tour and didn’t have to spend 500.000£ on a ad agency.

 

[Dasteknoviking]

Hello, my first post here as a lurker from Munich... I am in the market for a camper and seen this thread.

Here in Germany, GC600 is a quite common sight on the road. Many camper rental companies such as Roadsurfer, Camper Boys for example have a huge fleet of them. This is besides their Oceans, Beaches, Knauses, Westfalia...

They usually keep their vans for 2 or 3 years and they sell them on.

What I have noticed is that most 2-3 year old vans are commanding around 55-65k Euro on our market with most vans in the 60-80k km.

Having the choice, GC is a clear winner for a used van purchase simply because of the bathroom, safety (wild camping) and price. Comparable Ocean with the 200ps engine and options used costs more money. I can buy a 2nd car to drive on daily basis for the money saved. However GC is not without its shortcomings and this is why it is still not parked in my driveway... I may go for a Knaus, Sven Heiden, or even a Affinity based Crafter/MAN.

Obviously, everyone has a different scenario and no everyone has the space for multiple cars.

Another thing to mention, while Ducato/Jumper/Partner triplets are inexpensive... Their driving position makes you feel like a orangutan behind the wheel. You sit so high on the seat that your head is above the top windshield line and you hands are fully extended to reach the wheel. My wife and I looked at every option there is and the Crafter is bang on amazing. I wouldn't hesitate to drive 1000km in a day in one.

My two € cents

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Barry Chuckle]

How many times have I seen on YT "this £2,000 Ecoflow they gave me for nothing, that I'm going to be brutally honest about... Has literally changed my life, it powers anyting, it feeds the kids, turns water into wine etc etc...."

 

[soulstyledevon]

I’d agree that it won’t hold its value anywhere near as well as a regular Cali but the Cali serves a slightly different market in my view (a much larger one at that). I haven’t looked in to the segment in too much detail but with the current discounts the Grand Cali is competing on price with mostly Fiat Ducato based vans from motorhome manufacturers. I’d be interested to see how the depreciation compares to one of those for example, I don’t think you can compare it to a regular Cali.

Ducato Hymer BlueEvo.
10 months ownership, cost me £2.5k

 

[soulstyledevon]

Apart from Top Gear Magazine, No one who gets a loaner from the manufacturer gives you an honest review. As an influencer it’s hard as it is to get a loaner so they can’t be negative.

Spot on.
There was a US guy who did Volkswagen reviews on YouTube. Every vehicle was a positive review, until his ID4 rant after terrible customer service over an 11 month period.
He’s no longer invited to Volkswagen press releases or vehicle demos.

There was another one who had the same reception for honestly reviewing the ID Buzz.

YouTubers who are sponsored by the car industry, have to tread a very fine line. They’re there to sell products….

 

[kave]

How many times have I seen on YT "this £2,000 Ecoflow they gave me for nothing, that I'm going to be brutally honest about... Has literally changed my life, it powers anyting, it feeds the kids, turns water into wine etc etc...."

Never realized so many people needed an expensive battery backup. That marketing has been extremely successful. I hear the pioneers in this kind of marketing is now slowly moving out since it gives less money back all the time. Hopefully more and more people realize its just marketing and treat it as such.

 

[GrannyJen]

I’d agree that it won’t hold its value anywhere near as well as a regular Cali but the Cali serves a slightly different market in my view (a much larger one at that). I haven’t looked in to the segment in too much detail but with the current discounts the Grand Cali is competing on price with mostly Fiat Ducato based vans from motorhome manufacturers. I’d be interested to see how the depreciation compares to one of those for example, I don’t think you can compare it to a regular Cali.

It would have to be a big discount. When I was looking a Ducato based HYMER with similar spec was coming out around £12k cheaper than a GC.

2 years and 200 nights on I am quite confident I could sell my ducato based Hymer for pretty will what I paid for it, but then the last two years have seen ridiculous price increases from about everyone which benefits my sell-on price.

 

[oliver100]

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone who owns a GC as they clearly are lovely vehicles and and a discerning purchse for the right person. However without going into too much detail I am a subject matter expert on vehicle economics and nothing is a more accurate gauge of desirabity than resale values & discounts. The Cali has bulletproof residuals which are almost unparalleled in the industry, built to order brands such as RR or Ferrari don't enjoy the same residuals as the Cali. Currently there are discounts of nearing 20k on a new GC and the last time VW offered anything similar was the Phaeton if anyone can remember that. Ultimately the residuals were savage on that car and it was abandoned after a few years due to the competition being so much better.

My knowledge on these vehicles is nowhere near that of the experts on this forum. But purely from a financial perspective, make sure you secure a significant discount on a GC if you're buying new and be cognisant that you may take a fairly big hit when you sell in the future.

Who in the UK is giving a 25% discount on brand new GC?

 

[itsSteve]

It cannot be chance that this is not on the GC forum. Very few people posting here want a GC and fewer still will ever buy one. I have a GC 600, so I guess that entitles me to a view .......... ?

I never wanted a standard Cali because, they're too small, they provide no privacy, their payload is too low, I don't need a camper to use as an everyday car, I want a permanent bed, I don't want move everything from one part of the van to eat and then do it again to sleep, I don't want a popup, porta potties are undignified, I don't need to park up on short driveway, we do our supermarket shopping in a car ........

I previously owned a six-metre coach built and then a similar sized Ducato conversion. Moving to a GC meets the needs that I have identified during previous ownership. It's fine, it's better than our previous vans, though not perfect (it really needs a step up to the bed without blocking the bathroom door).

So why all the sourness about the GC? I'm delighted that there are so many happy Cali owners, so why rain on my parade? Oh, final point ...... I've just read a series of reviews of Crafter and MAN conversions at the Out and About website and they all seem very expensive

 

[sidepod]

It cannot be chance that this is not on the GC forum. Very few people posting here want a GC and fewer still will ever buy one. I have a GC 600, so I guess that entitles me to a view .......... ?

I never wanted a standard Cali because, they're too small, they provide no privacy, their payload is too low, I don't need a camper to use as an everyday car, I want a permanent bed, I don't want move everything from one part of the van to eat and then do it again to sleep, I don't want a popup, porta potties are undignified, I don't need to park up on short driveway, we do our supermarket shopping in a car ........

I previously owned a six-metre coach built and then a similar sized Ducato conversion. Moving to a GC meets the needs that I have identified during previous ownership. It's fine, it's better than our previous vans, though not perfect (it really needs a step up to the bed without blocking the bathroom door).

So why all the sourness about the GC? I'm delighted that there are so many happy Cali owners, so why rain on my parade? Oh, final point ...... I've just read a series of reviews of Crafter and MAN conversions at the Out and About website and they all seem very expensive

I don’t think anyone is raining on your parade?
I started this thread out of curiosity not as a a compare/contrast to the Cali, they’re completely different vehicles.
It was simply the fact that I’ve never seen one in the wild as opposed to every other camper being the competition to the GC.
In my book, that’s a fail.

 

[CamperFam]

Design niggles to one side I honestly love our GC600 and that is as family of 4, my main issue was the table and we replaced that on day one with a smaller one that stows next to the seats. Speaking of design niggles the current t6.1 Cali bellows leaks like a sieve from brand new so its not immune to this kind of thing! Luckily my old t6.1 cali had the older canvas so only leaked in heavy persistent rain. The cupboard latches would break for fun, I couldn't go near the dartford tunnel without the SOS system crashing along with taking the infotainment down with it and I could go on but I still loved that one too!

Honestly - envious of you. If we hadn't experienced an Ocean first, we'd have definitely pulled the trigger on a GC. I think what got us was knowing that VW 'can do better', and that we currently have it (just not in the full size lineup we would have liked).

 

[CamperFam]

It cannot be chance that this is not on the GC forum. Very few people posting here want a GC and fewer still will ever buy one. I have a GC 600, so I guess that entitles me to a view .......... ?

I never wanted a standard Cali because, they're too small, they provide no privacy, their payload is too low, I don't need a camper to use as an everyday car, I want a permanent bed, I don't want move everything from one part of the van to eat and then do it again to sleep, I don't want a popup, porta potties are undignified, I don't need to park up on short driveway, we do our supermarket shopping in a car ........

I previously owned a six-metre coach built and then a similar sized Ducato conversion. Moving to a GC meets the needs that I have identified during previous ownership. It's fine, it's better than our previous vans, though not perfect (it really needs a step up to the bed without blocking the bathroom door).

So why all the sourness about the GC? I'm delighted that there are so many happy Cali owners, so why rain on my parade? Oh, final point ...... I've just read a series of reviews of Crafter and MAN conversions at the Out and About website and they all seem very expensive

Porta Potties arent undignified; they're quaint. Dont rain on my parade (perhaps a poor phrase, given that specific topic....)

Playful sarcasm aside, to sidepode's comment; everyone has an opinion - sharing it doesn't remove the value you have in a vehicle/activity/choice; simply isn't a decision the other person would have made. And life would be a dull place if we all drove white saloons (*cough* 2003)

 

[larrylamb]

Regarding residuals, there are currently 29 Grand California's for sale on Auto Trader. That's quite a lot but the cheapest is £69k. Pretty good residuals i would say considering some of these models are 3.5 years old. I've not seen a bargain GC anywhere yet so there must be demand.

 

[CamperFam]

Regarding residuals, there are currently 29 Grand California's for sale on Auto Trader. That's quite a lot but the cheapest is £69k. Pretty good residuals i would say considering some of these models are 3.5 years old. I've not seen a bargain GC anywhere yet so there must be demand.

Two edged sword sadly.

High residuals are good IF it actually can sell at that value. Sadly, with a brand new Grand California 600 (fully spec'd with upstairs matress, heating upgrade, LEDs, etc) coming in at around 80k, buying one for 75k less, with 20k miles and 3 years old doesn't imply 'good residuals' - but simply priced too high. They likely wont sell at that price, and with the current offerings from VW, it'll bring prices down a substantial amount.

When I asked one dealer how many Grand Cali's they'd sold that year, the answer was '4' (one of the California 'centres'). Another dealer (another California dealer)'s last handover of a Grand California was November last year.

That said, residuals are driven by demand, which will also have a role to play - more specifically, California residuals were historically high due to the demand versus build slots from VW. With a post-C19 world, VW have upped the build slots for the UK, meaning the wait time is now only 3 months. So i'd highly expect normal Cali values to drop significantly too. On the other hand, with the Grand being a bit of a flop, you could also expect perhaps the prices to stay a little bouyant due to the rarity. VW have also upped the production

 

[andyinluton]

On the other hand, with the Grand being a bit of a flop,

Who says it's a flop? its one of the best if not the best selling motorhome in the UK.
It might not sell in the same numbers as say a VW Golf but in motorhome terms it sells a lot.
If you take your typical motorhome brand they may have 2 or three dealers in the Uk each selling a handful of each model.

 

[Carryon Cali Camping]

Interesting to hear some the the comments re: £20k reductions, being a flop etc…….when at Busfest a few weeks ago I actually did speak to the VW Dealer there (Vertu, I think) and they said the 680’s are hard to get hold of and they have a few customers on their waiting lists as build slots and/or 2nd hand are hard to secure. They even mentioned that their sales manager a week or so before Busfest was bidding on a 680 in a dealer auction and stopped at £85k as he felt their mark up would be limited and it went on to sell to another VW dealer for £89k and it wasn’t a 4motion etc. They were keen to come and look at ours if I was interested to sell as we’d bought it in June and are very happy. They said that without looking they would give me £10k more than I had paid a few months earlier……so it’s seems a little contradictory to others experiences…….

 

[larrylamb]

High residuals are good IF it actually can sell at that value. Sadly, with a brand new Grand California 600 (fully spec'd with upstairs matress, heating upgrade, LEDs, etc) coming in at around 80k, buying one for 75k less, with 20k miles and 3 years old doesn't imply 'good residuals' - but simply priced too high.

That also applies to a lot of the Cali Ocean ads on here and Auto Trader etc, high asking prices with little savings compared to a new one with DTD/VW discount.

 

[CamperFam]

Who says it's a flop? its one of the best if not the best selling motorhome in the UK.
It might not sell in the same numbers as say a VW Golf but in motorhome terms it sells a lot.
If you take your typical motorhome brand they may have 2 or three dealers in the Uk each selling a handful of each model.

VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO - How Many Left?

Statistics for VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

Grand California (combined 600 and 680)
50 sold this year in total.
74 in 2022.
154 in 2021.
90 in their first year of full production (2020).

Meanwhile, the Cali Ocean 6.1 204 (excluding all other models for quick and easy numbers)

Difficult to parse the data for 2023 registrations due to the higher fluctuating numbers
833 in 2022
442 in 2021
298 in 2020 (partial)

Apples and oranges in vehicle type, but when looking at market opportunity and whether there's "life" in the GC product line, it's a very clear difference.
And with a build time of only 3 months on the Grand, it's clear that the demand isn't where they'd like.

(prior role in vehicle production and sales volumne planning within JLR)

You can also compare with Adria and Knaus, but their various models all still beat the Grand Cali in terms of numbers; and with far less of a powerhouse RE marketing and brand than Volkswagen.

 

[CamperFam]

That also applies to a lot of the Cali Ocean ads on here and Auto Trader etc, high asking prices with little savings compared to a new one with DTD/VW discount.

True enough - I fully expect values to drop; the only 'saving grace' though will be the analogue nature of existing Cali's versus the concept. A number will be scared off the concept of a camper being so dependent on electrics/ipads etc.

 

[oliver100]

True enough - I fully expect values to drop; the only 'saving grace' though will be the analogue nature of existing Cali's versus the concept. A number will be scared off the concept of a camper being so dependent on electrics/ipads etc.

The t6.1 ocean is far from analogue, everything is driven through a central camper control unit that I occasionally had to pull 4 fuses to reset when it locked on the heater screen and wouldn’t let me put the roof down!

 

[larrylamb]

True enough - I fully expect values to drop; the only 'saving grace' though will be the analogue nature of existing Cali's versus the concept. A number will be scared off the concept of a camper being so dependent on electrics/ipads etc.

The t6.1 ocean is far from analogue, everything is driven through a central camper control unit that I occasionally had to pull 4 fuses to reset when it locked on the heater screen and wouldn’t let me put the roof down!

Agree, the original control unit has it's faults but is still going strong in early T5 models, not sure how the software and hardware in the 6.1 units will fare in 15-20 years.

 

[CamperFam]

The t6.1 ocean is far from analogue, everything is driven through a central camper control unit that I occasionally had to pull 4 fuses to reset when it locked on the heater screen and wouldn’t let me put the roof down!

True enough - one of the reasons why I love our T6; it's a little more futureproof (albeit, as with any vehicle, all run through an onboard computer etc).

But yea - the concept of the concept (hah!) being controlled via a tablet scares the bejesus out of me

 

[Corradobrit]

Agree, the original control unit has it's faults but is still going strong in early T5 models, not sure how the software and hardware in the 6.1 units will fare in 15-20 years.

And there are avenues available for component level repairs should a problem develop. The T6.1 is a little less analog and more complicated. Which 3rd party repairer would be willing or able to provide support for that unit as production ends in less than a year.

 

[dspuk]

Is any of our Californais a flop?

Surely the flop or not is in the eye of the beholder. If you have a Grand and love it, it's a success.

All of the Cali's have their issues and challenges, but I'd say if you are a Grand owner and love it, ignore the naysayers.

Esp the Chris lad on YT. His lass is right - he is just a whinier, and I say that as a fellow northerner.

For a financial flop, you'd have to look at the sales figures. They look fine to me for a low volume high margin vehicle.

Similar convo for instance for a Nugget - is it a flop? I hate them, but will never own one. Their owners love them, so to them, not a flop.