Is the GC a fail?

[GrannyJen]

It cannot be chance that this is not on the GC forum. Very few people posting here want a GC and fewer still will ever buy one. I have a GC 600, so I guess that entitles me to a view .......... ?

I never wanted a standard Cali because, they're too small, they provide no privacy, their payload is too low, I don't need a camper to use as an everyday car, I want a permanent bed, I don't want move everything from one part of the van to eat and then do it again to sleep, I don't want a popup, porta potties are undignified, I don't need to park up on short driveway, we do our supermarket shopping in a car ........

I previously owned a six-metre coach built and then a similar sized Ducato conversion. Moving to a GC meets the needs that I have identified during previous ownership. It's fine, it's better than our previous vans, though not perfect (it really needs a step up to the bed without blocking the bathroom door).

So why all the sourness about the GC? I'm delighted that there are so many happy Cali owners, so why rain on my parade? Oh, final point ...... I've just read a series of reviews of Crafter and MAN conversions at the Out and About website and they all seem very expensive

Don't take it too personally. This noble order of Cali-o-philes are quite capable of tearing each other to bits over whose Cali is best. Just witness previous forum wars over "beach V full fat", "Manual V Auto", "4 motion V Blue Motion", "Nothing beats a T4" etc.

It just goes to show that one camper's joy is another's misery.

If there had been a 5.4m GC, or a 5.4m LWB Cali, I would have jumped at it. The drive of both Crafter and Transporter are best in their class i.m.o. However there is not so I just had to accept the compromise of a Fiat based 5.4m to get my fixed bed, loo and freedom from faffing.

As for those niggles, show me a camper that does not have them. It's all part of having the best compromise for the individual to go away as I do and enjoy the blissful state of having most of my previous niggles no longer there.

 

[Carryon Cali Camping]

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Well that’s a curve ball to this thread! ;-)

do you do a special deal for my failure of a GC680? Just thinking as nobody else likes it, I should get a good deal ;-)

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Getting it back on track, what alternatives are really out there for a sub 6m van on a Crafter/Man TGE/Sprinter base that can sleep two adults and two kids and has two separate ISOFIX points on the bench seat? I’m struggling with that search to be honest. There’s certainly nothing within £10k that I’ve managed to find.

 

[dspuk]

Getting it back on track, what alternatives are really out there for a sub 6m van on a Crafter/Man TGE/Sprinter base that can sleep two adults and two kids and has two separate ISOFIX points on the bench seat? I’m struggling with that search to be honest. There’s certainly nothing within £10k that I’ve managed to find.

We'd be looking at something like the Westfalia James Cook AD when it comes the time. Or for sure something Crafter or Mann based with a pop top and top bed.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

We'd be looking at something like the Westfalia James Cook AD when it comes the time. Or for sure something Crafter or Mann based with a pop top and top bed.

Yeah very nice van indeed but that’s got a €117,590 base price according to the 2024 price list, you can probably add on another €10-12k for options.

https://www.westfalia-mobil.com/0downloaddocs/2024/Pricelist-James-Cook-2024.pdf

That’s a world away from a GC600 which can come in fully loaded for about £81.5k with three years free servicing. Nothing I have found so far gets near the GC600.

 

[dspuk]

Yeah very nice van indeed but that’s got a €117,590 base price according to the 2024 price list, you can probably add on another €10-12k for options.

https://www.westfalia-mobil.com/0downloaddocs/2024/Pricelist-James-Cook-2024.pdf

That’s a world away from a GC600 which can come in fully loaded for about £81.5k with three years free servicing. Nothing I have found so far gets near the GC600.

Yeah - it's a bridge we need to cross but thankfully a few years from now

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Yeah - it's a bridge we need to cross but thankfully a few years from now

Better get saving

 

[Borris]

VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO - How Many Left?

Statistics for VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

Grand California (combined 600 and 680)
50 sold this year in total.
74 in 2022.
154 in 2021.
90 in their first year of full production (2020).

Meanwhile, the Cali Ocean 6.1 204 (excluding all other models for quick and easy numbers)

Difficult to parse the data for 2023 registrations due to the higher fluctuating numbers
833 in 2022
442 in 2021
298 in 2020 (partial)

Apples and oranges in vehicle type, but when looking at market opportunity and whether there's "life" in the GC product line, it's a very clear difference.
And with a build time of only 3 months on the Grand, it's clear that the demand isn't where they'd like.

(prior role in vehicle production and sales volumne planning within JLR)

You can also compare with Adria and Knaus, but their various models all still beat the Grand Cali in terms of numbers; and with far less of a powerhouse RE marketing and brand than Volkswagen.

Looking at your figures, I don't think anyone could argue that it's been a raving success. But has it actually been a fail? For some it's their ideal vehicle but for others not. Mind you, the same could be said of the Cali van ordinaire.
I have offered up my comments which in essence are that it doesn't work for us, isn't the best out there in this particular market sector and is in effect work in progress. These comments were given in response to the question posed in this thread's title and from my personal experience. So @itsSteve, nobody is "raining on your parade" but merely giving their opinions. If it works for you then why bother about the criticisms you may hear. No vehicle is perfect so what ever you buy you will hear criticisms.

 

[oliver100]

Yeah very nice van indeed but that’s got a €117,590 base price according to the 2024 price list, you can probably add on another €10-12k for options.

https://www.westfalia-mobil.com/0downloaddocs/2024/Pricelist-James-Cook-2024.pdf

That’s a world away from a GC600 which can come in fully loaded for about £81.5k with three years free servicing. Nothing I have found so far gets near the GC600.

I couldn't find anything else, I really wanted a westfailia sven hedin but needed an extra bed and a fair bit of money slashed off the price!

 

[sidepod]

Well that’s a curve ball to this thread! ;-)

do you do a special deal for my failure of a GC680? Just thinking as nobody else likes it, I should get a good deal ;-)

Still upset then?

 

[Carryon Cali Camping]

Still upset then?

Haha! Nobody upset here, certainly more important stuff going on than getting my boxers in a twist on a forum thread! I‘ve just been giving my thoughts every now and then…..I’d be more upset if I actually disliked our GC. I quite like the entertainment and selective information that some write, long may it continue, makes a day at work a little more entertaining ;-)

 

[andyinluton]

VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO - How Many Left?

Statistics for VOLKSWAGEN GRAND CALIFORNIA TDI AUTO.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

Grand California (combined 600 and 680)
50 sold this year in total.
74 in 2022.
154 in 2021.
90 in their first year of full production (2020).


You can also compare with Adria and Knaus, but their various models all still beat the Grand Cali in terms of numbers; and with far less of a powerhouse RE marketing and brand than Volkswagen.

Do you really think that Knaus beat the GC? using the same site as a source for vehicles licensed.

Sales of Boxlife & Boxster for 2022 were as follows:

Boxlife 540MK - 0
Ditto Auto. 1
boxlife 600 1
ditto auto. 0
boxlife 630 1
Boxster 540 2
Boxster 600 6
street 3


Total sales 14 vans of a type competing with a GC thats from a long established manufacturer, with a decent reputation for producing leisure vehicles, in fact it shows total increase of vans licensed from 2021 V 2022 manufactured by Knaus of any description including "missing" as being 37.

I would suggest that VW have blown them out the water.....

 

[Jester]

Two edged sword sadly.

High residuals are good IF it actually can sell at that value. Sadly, with a brand new Grand California 600 (fully spec'd with upstairs matress, heating upgrade, LEDs, etc) coming in at around 80k, buying one for 75k less, with 20k miles and 3 years old doesn't imply 'good residuals' - but simply priced too high. They likely wont sell at that price, and with the current offerings from VW, it'll bring prices down a substantial amount.

When I asked one dealer how many Grand Cali's they'd sold that year, the answer was '4' (one of the California 'centres'). Another dealer (another California dealer)'s last handover of a Grand California was November last year.

That said, residuals are driven by demand, which will also have a role to play - more specifically, California residuals were historically high due to the demand versus build slots from VW. With a post-C19 world, VW have upped the build slots for the UK, meaning the wait time is now only 3 months. So i'd highly expect normal Cali values to drop significantly too. On the other hand, with the Grand being a bit of a flop, you could also expect perhaps the prices to stay a little bouyant due to the rarity. VW have also upped the production

Ask Breeze how many that have sold.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

The prices of vehicles are often anecdotal, they're the same for asking prices for houses, it's what they actually sell for. RV vehicles are about a year behind the curve of the car market presently. That is an overhang from the feeding frenzy of Covid. But to illustrate my point, I've just bought an 81k Cali ocean for just over 72k, yet on Autotrader the cheapest 1 year old vehicle with the same spec and 15k miles is still more than I've paid. However 2 things to consider the person who traded in that vehicle will have got considerably less than the asking price and they're not selling particularly quickly. Between manufacturer incentives and dealer margin they have nearly 30% to play with on the GC, most have around 15%.
These aren't digs at any GC owners so please don't be offended, I'm just stating a fact. By way of a parallel I owned a new Audi A8, it was an absolutely outstanding car but it lost over 60% of it's value when I sold it 3 years later, the reason is simple the Mercedes S class dominates that sector and many (although not me) believe that to be a much better built car.
The GC faces much stiffer competition in it's class than the Cali does.

 

[CamperFam]

Do you really think that Knaus beat the GC? using the same site as a source for vehicles licensed.

Sales of Boxlife & Boxster for 2022 were as follows:

Boxlife 540MK - 0
Ditto Auto. 1
boxlife 600 1
ditto auto. 0
boxlife 630 1
Boxster 540 2
Boxster 600 6
street 3


Total sales 14 vans of a type competing with a GC thats from a long established manufacturer, with a decent reputation for producing leisure vehicles, in fact it shows total increase of vans licensed from 2021 V 2022 manufactured by Knaus of any description including "missing" as being 37.

I would suggest that VW have blown them out the water.....

Which isn't difficult with Knaus, when looking at price.

But yeah - it's a *cheap* Crafter conversion versus a highend Crafter conversion. It'll naturally sell more, as it's far more of a swallowable proposition to the existing California market, and compromise for those stepping up.

My point on numbers wasn't a comparison on volume, but that the volume isn't that material for VW, when considering the impact on VW to have a production plant, equipment, bulk ordered materials, storage costs, staff training, and more....Only churning out a very small amount of GC's (for the UK atleast....) each quarter is a curious business model. The margins, opportunities and market share will be far greater in other areas of VW's reach.

That said, we used to offer vehicles to a market not because it made money, but simply for brand awareness. We had a number of countries where selling vehicles actually cost us money; but increased market share. Numerous tactics could be at play - doesn't mean it's met expectations.

 

[oliver100]

I’ll ask again out of curiosity, who in the Uk is knocking out brand new base spec GC’s for under 60k ?

The prices of vehicles are often anecdotal, they're the same for asking prices for houses, it's what they actually sell for. RV vehicles are about a year behind the curve of the car market presently. That is an overhang from the feeding frenzy of Covid. But to illustrate my point, I've just bought an 81k Cali ocean for just over 72k, yet on Autotrader the cheapest 1 year old vehicle with the same spec and 15k miles is still more than I've paid. However 2 things to consider the person who traded in that vehicle will have got considerably less than the asking price and they're not selling particularly quickly. Between manufacturer incentives and dealer margin they have nearly 30% to play with on the GC, most have around 15%.
These aren't digs at any GC owners so please don't be offended, I'm just stating a fact. By way of a parallel I owned a new Audi A8, it was an absolutely outstanding car but it lost over 60% of it's value when I sold it 3 years later, the reason is simple the Mercedes S class dominates that sector and many (although not me) believe that to be a much better built car.
The GC faces much stiffer competition in it's class than the Cali does.

 

[CaliforniaSeb]

Is the GC a success for VW? Maybe not for VW. I traded my F Type JAG in for our Cali. The main Jaguar dealer told me they only sold a couple a month. It was a bit of a loss leader for Jaguar. Maybe not a success for Jaguar then, but certainly for us owners. As motorhomes go it looks great outside and inside. Classy. We got to check one out in the showroom when looking to buy our Cali. I imagine it drives really well for a motorhome too. We would certainly look at a second hand one at some point. When looking to buy a campervan, the underlying van was very important to us. The Cali is based on a rock solid VW Transporter. The GC on another rock solid VW van.

 

[Barry Chuckle]

I’ll ask again out of curiosity, who in the Uk is knocking out brand new base spec GC’s for under 60k ?

I didn't say dealers were knocking out base spec vehicles at below 60k, but if you find a dealer who'll sell you a higher spec GC at the right time of the month/quarter for their sales targets you could negotiate a fair chunk of 20k discount I believe. Some dealers will offer little or nothing some will offer much more, just like most other vehicles you can buy.....

 

[oliver100]

I didn't say dealers were knocking out base spec vehicles at below 60k, but if you find a dealer who'll sell you a higher spec GC at the right time of the month/quarter for their sales targets you could negotiate a fair chunk of 20k discount I believe. Some dealers will offer little or nothing some will offer much more, just like most other vehicles you can buy.....

If you talking brand new factory order I very much doubt it having just gone through the process, around 12% is the max you will get in the UK unless things have changed in the last few weeks. I used dtd and Autoebid for my GC like I did with with with my Cali ocean but Vw Sheffield were able to match their prices this time on a high spec GC600 but this was still around around half of the discount you are suggesting. In terms of ex demo vehicles the dealers are usually savage with prices for those as pre built delivery mileage GC’s are very rare due to them pretty much all being customer factory orders.

As always there may be some dealer desperate enough to meet a sales target where a better deal is possible but you would almost certainly get the same level of discount on a regular t6.1 Cali in that situation.

 

[Borris]

Is the GC a success for VW? Maybe not for VW. I traded my F Type JAG in for our Cali. The main Jaguar dealer told me they only sold a couple a month. It was a bit of a loss leader for Jaguar. Maybe not a success for Jaguar then, but certainly for us owners. As motorhomes go it looks great outside and inside. Classy. We got to check one out in the showroom when looking to buy our Cali. I imagine it drives really well for a motorhome too. We would certainly look at a second hand one at some point. When looking to buy a campervan, the underlying van was very important to us. The Cali is based on a rock solid VW Transporter. The GC on another rock solid VW van.

The base van is rock solid but it's the execution of the interior that is debatable. For some it works and for others it doesn't. It's not helped by the market sector it finds its self in. With so much choice available the GC would have to provide something very special to please more buyers than it does.

 

[andyinluton]

The base van is rock solid but it's the execution of the interior that is debatable.

Sounds like MAN are listening to you! They have just announced that you can buy basically an empty GC600/Knaus - with a the factory fitted high roof & the bulging rear side panels to make a transverse bed work.
Further options include 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel air suspension, and engine upgrades

Sounds like a good basis for self conversion.

 

[chockswahay]

If only it didn’t look so unattractive

(OK I have edited this as I may have been a little harsh with my previous description)

 

[sidepod]

 

[chockswahay]

OK, I geddit……….. this thread is mostly dominated by owners and ex owners of the 600 so I should not expect agreement from the majority here……. It’s just a personal view but I could never really love a van that looks the way it does. Clearly this is a ‘Marmite’ van and a definite case of function over form

Previously I have owned a 6m Globecar but I could never have owned this version……

VW are not the only ones ……..

 

[oliver100]

On the other hand I’m kinda fine with it, funny old world hey