Is there increasing resistance against EV’s?

[Elmo3]

We love leasing our 2 EVs through salary sacrifice. Way more cost effective for us than the equivalent ICE car and a great driving experience! I wouldn’t buy one though yet, that’s a step too far for us. An unproven expensive technology with a very high price tag just doesn’t feel worth it yet.

That’s the rub. The vast majority are only on the road due to tax incentives. Take away those tax bungs (which everyone is paying for) and sales would plummet. It’s essentially a case of people who can’t afford a new car subsidising those who can.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

That’s the rub. The vast majority are only on the road due to tax incentives. Take away those tax bungs (which everyone is paying for) and sales would plummet. It’s essentially a case of people who can’t afford a new car subsidising those who can.

Yes the BIK rates are very low for electric cars, but these rates are open to everybody, however you need to work for a company who has a company car scheme. If the BIK rates were higher though most just wouldn’t do it so it’s not like the government are losing out on receiving tax.

 

[Elmo3]

Yes the BIK rates are very low for electric cars, but these rates are open to everybody, however you need to work for a company who has a company car scheme. If the BIK rates were higher though most just wouldn’t do it so it’s not like the government are losing out on receiving tax.

Well yes, the BIK bung is open to everyone, in the same way everyone now whacks £60K a year into their pension, don‘t they? They are expensive vehicles being subsidised for those wealthy enough to buy / lease one and without taxpayer subsidy, sales volumes would be negligible. The govt would collect more tax revenue from ICE alternatives IMHO and as we know, the environmental credentials of EV’s are questionable. To achieve mass adoption, EV economics have to stand on their own 2 feet.

 

[johnyboy]

Well yes, the BIK bung is open to everyone, in the same way everyone now whacks £60K a year into their pension, don‘t they? They are expensive vehicles being subsidised for those wealthy enough to buy / lease one and without taxpayer subsidy, sales volumes would be negligible. The govt would collect more tax revenue from ICE alternatives IMHO and as we know, the environmental credentials of EV’s are questionable. To achieve mass adoption, EV economics have to stand on their own 2 feet.

Rich person buys EV, takes the depreciation whack, sells at more affordable price... repeat

 

[Ch1pbutty]

That’s the rub. The vast majority are only on the road due to tax incentives. Take away those tax bungs (which everyone is paying for) and sales would plummet. It’s essentially a case of people who can’t afford a new car subsidising those who can.

We have a leased EV.

Also have solar panels on the house + home battery, which we paid for ourselves. Only tax incentive was zero vat, but we had already paid 40% income tax on earnings before we paid for the panels.

100% of home & car energy in June was supplied by the sun. Car was charged overnight at home whilst we were sleeping. Excess solar was sold to the grid and £ will be used to offset our gas bill.
Tax bungs my arse!

 

[Elmo3]

We have a leased EV.

Also have solar panels on the house + home battery, which we paid for ourselves. Only tax incentive was zero vat, but we had already paid 40% income tax on earnings before we paid for the panels.

100% of home & car energy in June was supplied by the sun. Car was charged overnight at home whilst we were sleeping. Excess solar was sold to the grid and £ will be used to offset our gas bill.
Tax bungs my arse!

I suspect you are in a tiny minority who can do this. For mass adoption, it has to work for the majority.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

I suspect you are in a tiny minority who can do this. For mass adoption, it has to work for the majority.

Agree. We drive a 11 year old Cali, so have more cash in the pocket.

 

[willwander]

Sadly, it’s most lightly that the bike/scooter is charged in a hallway or corridor, blocking the only means of escape.
Once they go, it takes just a few seconds and you have an inferno.

Believe it or not, lots of high rise tower blocks still don’t have sufficient fire protection systems.

Insurance companies scrambling to deny liability.
We just got this circulated by work...

Following advice from our Insurers, we’re no longer able to permit the charging of E-Scooters/E-Bikes within any of the communal areas at any time....
Due to the high risk of fire, any employers authorising charging within their demise should consult with their H&S Representative & update the Fire Risk Assessment.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Well yes, the BIK bung is open to everyone, in the same way everyone now whacks £60K a year into their pension, don‘t they? They are expensive vehicles being subsidised for those wealthy enough to buy / lease one and without taxpayer subsidy, sales volumes would be negligible. The govt would collect more tax revenue from ICE alternatives IMHO and as we know, the environmental credentials of EV’s are questionable. To achieve mass adoption, EV economics have to stand on their own 2 feet.

No idea how leasing an EV links to pension contributions. You’ve lost me there.

I guess they’d get more VAT on fuel and a little more on VED. Not massive though. Still VAT on the extra electricity usage. Agree they need to stand on their own two feet. I don’t think we’re anywhere near there yet.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Picking up on the HS2 tangent of this thread, here’s an animation of the construction of the viaduct on the south side of Wendover where I live. Cost of doing these animations for projects along the line must be quite high. Nice contract for somebody.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

tinyurl.com

 

[soulstyledevon]

Picking up on the HS2 tangent of this thread, here’s an animation of the construction of the viaduct on the south side of Wendover where I live. Cost of doing these animations for projects along the line must be quite high. Nice contract for somebody.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

tinyurl.com

Please don’t.
My wee wee boils watching this sort of stuff. National disgrace, another example of the rich creating mega wealth for the rich…
I love how the northern lot believe it will benefit them
It’s a project to exploit south Birmingham and create new towns and cities along its path…

The Chilterns will look so pretty with all that concrete

 

[66tim99]

Interesting approach to future lithium scarcity.
https://insideevs.com/news/650150/toyota-says-ev-extremists-are-wrong/amp/

I see Harry is sticking with PHEV for now…

 

[Amarillo]

Please don’t.
My wee wee boils watching this sort of stuff. National disgrace, another example of the rich creating mega wealth for the rich…
I love how the northern lot believe it will benefit them
It’s a project to exploit south Birmingham and create new towns and cities along its path…

The Chilterns will look so pretty with all that concrete

It is absolutely shocking what has happened.

Levelling up means an Acton to Aston high speed shuttle!!??

 

[soulstyledevon]

It is absolutely shocking what has happened.

Levelling up means an Acton to Aston high speed shuttle!!??

Once it’s built, the fastest way to central London will probably be on the old line. As it terminates at Euston…

 

[flying banana]

Once it’s built, the fastest way to central London will probably be on the old line. As it terminates at Euston…

Someone apparently worked out it would have cost less than hs2 cso far,to give every adult free rail and bus travel for life and it would have been cheaper. Now that would have got some cars off the roads for certain.

 

[Amarillo]

Someone apparently worked out it would have cost less than hs2 cso far,to give every adult free rail and bus travel for life and it would have been cheaper. Now that would have got some cars off the roads for certain.

But the problem is, as it always has been, capacity.

 

[Amarillo]

Once it’s built, the fastest way to central London will probably be on the old line. As it terminates at Euston…

But not much good for me. I live within 30 minutes cycle ride of Woolwich (Elizabeth Line). There used to be a direct train from our local station to Abbey Wood, but SouthEastern discontinued the 2 train per hour service within three weeks of the Elizabeth Line opening.

 

[66tim99]

But the problem is, as it always has been, capacity.

Yes, for freight as well as passengers. HS2 (still, even with the current scope), frees significant classic rail capacity for freight. I understand the most significant congestion, south of Birmingham will still be relieved.
Terrible idea to cancel the Manchester leg. Good to hear it will still go to Euston, but as usual this Government over-promises on behalf of the private sector, and effectively scuppers the expansion of HS2 services to Manchester by reducing the number of Euston platforms.
Disgraceful that a desperate PM can cancel cross-party consensus in search of a theme for his party conference.

 

[Amarillo]

Yes, for freight as well as passengers. HS2 (still, even with the current scope), frees significant classic rail capacity for freight. I understand the most significant congestion, south of Birmingham will still be relieved.
Terrible idea to cancel the Manchester leg. Good to hear it will still go to Euston, but as usual this Government over-promises on behalf of the private sector, and effectively scuppers the expansion of HS2 services to Manchester by reducing the number of Euston platforms.
Disgraceful that a desperate PM can cancel cross-party consensus in search of a theme for his party conference.

It might be political games. They might leave the door open for the next government (most likely Labour) to reverse the HS2 U-turn by not selling off the Euston land or Birmingham to Manchester land. Then blaming Labour for wasteful expenditure on HS2, while washing their hands of the matter.

The PM’s advisor in this is Andrew Gilligan who as a journalist drove the scientist Dr David Kelly to suicide over the Iraq WMD “sexed up” dodgy dossier. His rise from being Boris Johnson’s (rather good) London cycling commissioner to transport advisor to the PM has been rapid. But he does have a twisted mind.

What I don’t know is if they could complete the Manchester leg with about half of services terminating at Euston and the other half at Old Oak Common with its onward connections to Heathrow, or the west of London or the east of London.

 

[Velma's Dad]

It might be political games. They might leave the door open for the next government (most likely Labour) to reverse the HS2 U-turn by not selling off the Euston land or Birmingham to Manchester land. Then blaming Labour for wasteful expenditure on HS2, while washing their hands of the matter.

The PM’s advisor in this is Andrew Gilligan who as a journalist drove the scientist Dr David Kelly to suicide over the Iraq WMD “sexed up” dodgy dossier. His rise from being Boris Johnson’s (rather good) London cycling commissioner to transport advisor to the PM has been rapid. But he does have a twisted mind.

What I don’t know is if they could complete the Manchester leg with about half of services terminating at Euston and the other half at Old Oak Common with its onward connections to Heathrow, or the west of London or the east of London.

I had been generally in favour of HS2 (despite living very close to the route here in the Chilterns). But about a year ago it became obvious that the costs/benefits calculus had shifted drastically - partly because the assumptions about rail use had changed, but mainly because the massively escalated costs to £100bn+, due it seems to an extremely unsuitable project governance structure, meant that the project no longer made economic sense at all. From that point it seemed and still seems to me that the 'correct' decision would be to scrap the whole project. Obviously that would be politically a non-starter so we'll be left with the pointless London to Birmingham stump. It's pathetic isn't it.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

Interesting approach to future lithium scarcity.
https://insideevs.com/news/650150/toyota-says-ev-extremists-are-wrong/amp/

I see Harry is sticking with PHEV for now…

Yes a typically even handed video from Harry. It’s striking how even he is surprised how many journeys were done on electric in his hybrid. It’s clearly a good idea for many to use hybrids for the next ten years.

I’m a bit like the worst kind of former smoker - I now look at exhaust pipes and go “yuk, how old fashioned”. I’m quite glad we did the full BEV jump but I can fully understand why hybrids will be essential for those who need more than 130 miles range. We have a friend who leased an Audi Etron. They’re divorced and do a large weekly mileage in Yorkshire where public transport is very different to London. They hated the Audi.

Toyota seem to make a logical point.

 

[66tim99]

I had been generally in favour of HS2 (despite living very close to the route here in the Chilterns). But about a year ago it became obvious that the costs/benefits calculus had shifted drastically - partly because the assumptions about rail use had changed, but mainly because the massively escalated costs to £100bn+, due it seems to an extremely unsuitable project governance structure, meant that the project no longer made economic sense at all. From that point it seemed and still seems to me that the 'correct' decision would be to scrap the whole project. Obviously that would be politically a non-starter so we'll be left with the pointless London to Birmingham stump. It's pathetic isn't it.

Indeed. Decisions like whether to proceed with such an expensive project need to be taken at a point in time, and then committed to. In only 3 years since Johnson (following the Oakervee review) committed to HS2 in full in 2020, the Government has lopped one, then the other northern arms off the southern body and in the process caused unnecessary upheaval for local people along the defunct routes, and economic damage for companies who have taken decisions based on Government ambitions, and for those employed to deliver. As any project manager will tell you, changes in scope are difficult and expensive to manage. Each one of those arms was a massive nationally significant infrastructure project in themselves.
Cost 'increases' were always anticipated, as eg. land surveys, additional tunnelling and additional mitigation refined the design, and as inevitable inflation refined the prices. Decisions to eg. tunnel the Chilterns, have a 225mph top speed, and reduce the maintenance burden by bedding the tracks on concrete slabs rather than ballast have all inflated the cost, but increased the benefit of the railway. Those decisions should have been taken in association with the business case need to deliver the full Y route.
Despite contemporary outrage at the cost and impact of the channel tunnel and HS1, I don't think there are many people who would now prefer to have those billions in the coffers rather than the train line to France. Sunak has pitched the idea that he is a tough decision-maker, but has made a populist decision skewed towards short-term cost rather than long-term benefit. Although it is inconceivable to me that HS2 will not reach Manchester in the end, he has made sure that it will be a very difficult decision to reverse as it would include the opportunity cost of cancelling those projects that he has alluded will be funded instead.

 

[andyinluton]

Although it is inconceivable to me that HS2 will not reach Manchester in the end, he has made sure that it will be a very difficult decision to reverse as it would include the opportunity cost of cancelling those projects that he has alluded will be funded instead.

If it's ever to go all the way to Manchester the important thing is to stop the proposed sell off of the only recently acquired property on the route.

 

[flying banana]

HS2 disgrace. i'm working tonight in the biggest city in south yorkshire,Sheffield. i have 2 train stations nearby and get FREE rail travel as i work for them. i will be driving both ways in my 08 diesel car as the service is too sh1t to risk not getting home in the morning ,or taking about 2 hours to do so . our transport up here is so bad,it's not even worth using when it's free. i now drive to work every shift as many other rail workers also do,due to having little to no local service

 

[andyinluton]

i will be driving both ways in my 08 diesel

I read that & immediately thought this was your transport