Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Snoopy23]

For those people where aquatex has worked, how are you applying it? All over spray? Just the seams? One coat? Two? Etc

Just seams on outside only 2 coats. Was in france last weak 2 absolute downpours for over 3 hours each, not a drop of water penertrated!

 

[acer]

Just seams on outside only 2 coats. Was in france last weak 2 absolute downpours for over 3 hours each, not a drop of water penertrated!

Glad to hear that it worked for you. I’ve just done one coat all over a few minutes ago. It will be interesting to see how often it needs to be reapplied.

 

[Nick from Bath]

Anyone unconcerned by the impact on the warranty tried retrofitting a seam sealer like Mcnett Seam Grip? Either alone or with tape? Would be curious to know what people have experimented with.

 

[lohr500]

For those people where aquatex has worked, how are you applying it? All over spray? Just the seams? One coat? Two? Etc

I just did the all the seams around the window zips, the seams where the batons are stitched in and the vertical seams front and back where the front and side panels are stitched together.

Inside and out with two coats, allowing an hour or so between coats.

Once dry, you can't see that it has been applied.

In my opinion there is no problem with the material itself leaking, so no need to treat all the fabric. It is just the seam stitching where the issue seems to be.

I used a piece of old cardboard to mask off the area directly below where I was spraying and applied the Aquatex on a warm day with no wind. I left the roof up for several hours before to make sure it was completely dry.

The instructions on the can said to make sure the surface was clean prior to application. But as our 04S bellows were almost new and the roof had only been up a handful of times before it rained and leaked, I didn't bother trying to wash the roof.

Aquatex was applied around April last year shortly after we collected the Cali and we had no further leaks through all of last year. Haven't been out in heavy rain this year, so I should probably put the roof up at home next time we have heavy rain just to see if the treatment is still working.

I have a couple of cans ready, just in case!!

 

[TW88]

I have a 2023 T6.1 with the 03S bellows which leak from the seams. I have given my local VW van centre (Newcastle) video evidence of the leak taking place from the seams and they told me to bring it in for a replacement under warranty. However VW have since informed them that it will not be covered by the warranty. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do now?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I have a 2023 T6.1 with the 03S bellows which leak from the seams. I have given my local VW van centre (Newcastle) video evidence of the leak taking place from the seams and they told me to bring it in for a replacement under warranty. However VW have since informed them that it will not be covered by the warranty. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do now?

There's a lot of pages to look through but there is everything you need to know about "Bellowsgate". I suggest you spend an hour or two and enjoy the ride...

Without trying to re-hash what's gone on, what I would do in your case is:

a) Email Rhiannon at the VW Exec Office. The exact email address is in many posts. I would ask why a leaking original 03S bellows has been refused for replacement.

I'd probably wait for a reply before asking how VW can justify not replacing them when there are variants 04S, 05S and 06S which all address issues. The last iteration specifically adds a transparent seam tape to those leaky vertical seams.

Other iterations added "rubber like" seam sealers to all the seams.

As well as changes to version number, many of us received "modified" bellows without a change in version number. Some people have received upwards of five replacements.

I still have 03S bellows (third set before I gave up) but miraculously these don't leak and boy, they have seen some torrid weather. The "word on the streets" is that a less than reputable dealer performed their own "dealer special" waterproofing to avoid vehicles being rejected. But I have no proof, only a set of 03S which definitely don't leak at the moment. Which is highly unusual.

If VW still won't play ball, personally I would have 06S bellows installed. It's about 1k and I'd then just take VW to court. No way they're going to show up and fight it. There's a reputable independent VW place "Kernow Transporters" who have experience in replacing the bellows but may be a long way from you. Or pay a VW workshop. Again I'd look through the pages for recommendations but one's springing to mind would be Manchester and Breeze in Poole.

Finally, I decided I wasn't going to go down the topper route but I did buy one and it's presently up for sale if you want a second layer of protection!!!!!

 

[lohr500]

I have a 2023 T6.1 with the 03S bellows which leak from the seams. I have given my local VW van centre (Newcastle) video evidence of the leak taking place from the seams and they told me to bring it in for a replacement under warranty. However VW have since informed them that it will not be covered by the warranty. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do now?

I would send your video evidence to VW's Executive Office with a polite message saying that the bellows are not fit for purpose and that you are not happy that your warranty claim has been rejected.
Mention that you are fully aware that the problem is not isolated and that you are also aware that only the 06S version appears to be watertight.

The lady dealing with previous bellow issues is Rhiannon Owens and she will be well aware of the problems. The email address is [email protected]

If you don't get an acceptable result, then I think your next step should be The Motor Ombudsman.
Ask VW Executive Office to send you a deadlock letter if they refuse to replace your bellows as this should help speed up the process with The Ombudsman.

If you end up going to The Ombudsman you could point them to this thread on the forum which now runs to 180 pages and highlights the widespread nature of the problem. Plus the fact that VW tried 04S and 05S versions before finalising on the 06S version to solve the problem.

Another option could be to raise a Small Claims Court case although I am not sure how that works.

It beggars belief that VW are refusing to sort out any new warranty claims for leaking bellows given the history. Not all owners will have used their pop top roofs in the rain up to now, so I don't see how VW can close the shutters on this.

 

[TW88]

I have a 2023 T6.1 with the 03S bellows which leak from the seams. I have given my local VW van centre (Newcastle) video evidence of the leak taking place from the seams and they told me to bring it in for a replacement under warranty. However VW have since informed them that it will not be covered by the warranty. Does anyone have any advice on what I should do now?

Many thanks to CaliforniaCylus and lohr500, I sent the video evidence to [email protected] and was called back a couple of days later by Rhiannon, who introduced herself as the "Bellows Queen" and my van is now booked in for a replacement later this week.

 

[GillianC]

Bellows Queen!! Sounds like a lady with a sense of humour.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Bellows Queen!! Sounds like a lady with a sense of humour.

Honestly she needs one given what she has had to deal with!!!!

 

[GillianC]

I can well imagine!!!!!!

 

[lohr500]

Many thanks to CaliforniaCylus and lohr500, I sent the video evidence to [email protected] and was called back a couple of days later by Rhiannon, who introduced herself as the "Bellows Queen" and my van is now booked in for a replacement later this week.

That's a great result for you.

And I think also good news for everyone else who may find their bellows leaking whilst still in the warranty period. It sets a precedence to push back against the previous information that VW were no longer prepared to replace bellows under warranty

 

[Kernowboy]

That's a great result for you.

And I think also good news for everyone else who may find their bellows leaking whilst still in the warranty period. It sets a precedence to push back against the previous information that VW were no longer prepared to replace bellows under warranty

Hmmm, I’m not so sure. The previous information was that 04S and later bellows wouldn’t be replaced. As TW88 had 03S they wouldn’t have be affected by the VW clamp down and they should have been able to walk into the dealer and get them replaced anyway under warranty, without any HQ involvement. No change to the previously reported position here.

 

[JuanVecino2023]

yes its a pretty poor situation to be in, even more frustratingly i emailed the pics to Breeze in Pool over a week ago and haven't had the courtesy of a response, which marries up with my previous comment on this forum that Breeze are great from a pre-sales perspective, but post-sales, not so much

I hate to say it, Breeze are massively overrated.

Sales, ok. Service and aftercare, 1/10.

VW sent a missive in spring. No more bellows replacements under warranty. They claim the 06S performs exactly the same as the 04S.

What you will get is a natty VW external wrap for heavy conditions.

My Cali went on sale the next month. Gave me zero faith in the warranty. Especially given I had notified the dealer with pics last year and only waited until April when the service was due.

 

[lohr500]

Hmmm, I’m not so sure. The previous information was that 04S and later bellows wouldn’t be replaced. As TW88 had 03S they wouldn’t have be affected by the VW clamp down and they should have been able to walk into the dealer and get them replaced anyway under warranty, without any HQ involvement. No change to the previously reported position here.

Good point. I had forgotten the recent warranty rejections related to 04S bellows.

I still think I would be pushing for a replacement if my 04S bellows failed within warranty, possibly followed up by a small claims court action if VW Exec office refused to authorise.
Given the evidence of 04S failures replaced under warranty from several forum members and the previous documented discussions I had with VW Exec office, I think a small claims court case would have a strong chance of winning. And I'm not sure VW would want to end up in court. Hopefully the Aquatex will keep working on miy 04S bellows.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Hmmm, I’m not so sure. The previous information was that 04S and later bellows wouldn’t be replaced. As TW88 had 03S they wouldn’t have be affected by the VW clamp down and they should have been able to walk into the dealer and get them replaced anyway under warranty, without any HQ involvement. No change to the previously reported position here.

I'm not sure how "official" or widespread such a notification is / was. Calibord also indicated bellows replacement is on-going. If you have an 06S, then there is a bigger pushback. Over on Calibord there is only 1 example of 06S leaking and that fabric doesn't have the clear seam tape present so it's almost certainly not an 06S. There is also a view there that on 06S any small drips disappear after repeat soakings indicating that the thread may now have more cotton in it.

Some dealers turned bellow replacement into a cash-cow business and whilst people argued with certain dealers about how much ingress was too much, others allowed vehicles to be rejected easily and swapped bellows on a whim. I know dealers who took on extra staff to replace bellows and at up to 5 hours labour I'm sure it was a nice earner.

I'm certain it's more difficult now because VW just seem to want to make any warranty claims difficult.

But don't be deterred. If you have proper leaking bellows you will know about it. You'll be worried about the headlining. Push back to the Exec office and if necessary replace them anyway and instigate a claim to Small Claims...

 

[JuanVecino2023]

I'm not sure how "official" or widespread such a notification is / was. Calibord also indicated bellows replacement is on-going. If you have an 06S, then there is a bigger pushback. Over on Calibord there is only 1 example of 06S leaking and that fabric doesn't have the clear seam tape present so it's almost certainly not an 06S. There is also a view there that on 06S any small drips disappear after repeat soakings indicating that the thread may now have more cotton in it.

Some dealers turned bellow replacement into a cash-cow business and whilst people argued with certain dealers about how much ingress was too much, others allowed vehicles to be rejected easily and swapped bellows on a whim. I know dealers who took on extra staff to replace bellows and at up to 5 hours labour I'm sure it was a nice earner.

I'm certain it's more difficult now because VW just seem to want to make any warranty claims difficult.

But don't be deterred. If you have proper leaking bellows you will know about it. You'll be worried about the headlining. Push back to the Exec office and if necessary replace them anyway and instigate a claim to Small Claims...

Agree with this. They did zero warranty claims on mine.

All known problems
04S bellows - refused to replace - see post above (huge leak, water ingress into cab headlining and drooping onto kitchen worktops, photos supplied)

AC leak in passenger footwell - denied it was happening despite photos

Bed extension board supplied with fault, noted with early photos.

Extra drawer under bench seat, pull handle twisted - refused to even try to repair - despite being a known weak spot

There were more. But essentially gave me zero confidence in the 5 year guarantee moving forward.

I sold partially due to this. Shame as on paper, it’s great.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Agree with this. They did zero warranty claims on mine.

All known problems
04S bellows - refused to replace - see post above (huge leak, water ingress into cab headlining and drooping onto kitchen worktops, photos supplied)

AC leak in passenger footwell - denied it was happening despite photos

Bed extension board supplied with fault, noted with early photos.

Extra drawer under bench seat, pull handle twisted - refused to even try to repair - despite being a known weak spot

There were more. But essentially gave me zero confidence in the 5 year guarantee moving forward.

I sold partially due to this. Shame as on paper, it’s great.

Agree. VW and the dealers we've encountered are a real pooh show. If it wasn't for the fact that our Cali is dual purpose - it makes a great towcar for our caravan - it would be long gone by now.

 

[Jw155]

Going to Italy on the 17th June for 18 nights , Iam sure my bellows will get a good test after 3 coats of aquatex and will report back

So currently on way back from Italy in France , big storm last night plenty of heavy rain and no leaking bellows after 3 coats of aquatex, not the very fine rain we had in Cornwall but certainly happy

 

[Up10]

This may well have been stated previously, we are on page 180! Please forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

Reports of leaky bellows have allowed VW to become a laughing stock in what is otherwise considered a decent van (I can hear the responses pinging in already!).

Why don't VW Group just recall all the vans reporting leaky bellows and treat them with Aquatex through their dealerships? Job done and reputation restored!

 

[Rems23]

This may well have been stated previously, we are on page 180! Please forgive me if I am stating the obvious.

Reports of leaky bellows have allowed VW to become a laughing stock in what is otherwise considered a decent van (I can hear the responses pinging in already!).

Why don't VW Group just recall all the vans reporting leaky bellows and treat them with Aquatex through their dealerships? Job done and reputation restored!

Depends on the severity of the leaks, which judging by everyone’s experience seems to vary wildly. My 03s for example would never have been fixed with a can of spray proofer and neither would I have been happy with that as an offering.

 

[Up10]

Depends on the severity of the leaks, which judging by everyone’s experience seems to vary wildly. My 03s for example would never have been fixed with a can of spray proofer and neither would I have been happy with that as an offering.

I fully accept what you say but it may well clear up a large percentage of faults.

I have 06s bellows which leak and I heard this morning from Rhianon that these replacement bellows are not under warranty by VW. They have washed their hands of their faulty products. However in such cases as mine, would it not have been worth VW recalling it and treating it with a waterproofing agent? Really, what have they got to lose that they haven't already lost?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I fully accept what you say but it may well clear up a large percentage of faults.

I have 06s bellows which leak and I heard this morning from Rhianon that these replacement bellows are not under warranty by VW. They have washed their hands of their faulty products. However in such cases as mine, would it not have been worth VW recalling it and treating it with a waterproofing agent? Really, what have they got to lose that they haven't already lost?

Leaking 06S bellows are extremely rare. Do your bellows have the transparent seam tape on the two vertical seams?

And where is it leaking and how much. Is it pooling and running into the headlining?

 

[G-Man Bob]

Afternoon all, what’s the best waterproofing product? Aquatex or Fabsil? Any help and advice appreciated with a cheeky link to the online world of purchasing! Thanks

 

[Up10]

Leaking 06S bellows are extremely rare. Do your bellows have the transparent seam tape on the two vertical seams?

And where is it leaking and how much. Is it pooling and running into the headlining?

That's the annoying thing @CaliforniaCylus, it is apparently a rare thing and yet VW are washing their hands of any responsibility for it. They are not planning to investigate further and will not cover leakage under their warranty.

Leaks are primarily evident through the horizontal seam below the front fly mesh. The fly mesh acts as a reservoir and enough water tracks through to soak the front seats below.

I was thinking that it would be great to have a zip in waterproof outer for this opening for wet weather as most leaks in an 06s are at this location. I don't want a full bellows cover as we would lose all the wonderful attributes like a fully opening front or use of any of the fly mesh vents.

The vertical seams are all sealed. My 06s is dated 26/10/24 which I would assume was the date of manufacture.