Leisure battery out of juice

[jonny_and_lou]

Just had our first weekend away in new van and were off grid.
Any tips on what we could have done better are welcome.
Plugged van into mains on Thursday night and put fridge on. Drove to site on Friday. Other than fridge, some lights and charging phones didn’t think we’d used much power but ran out today (Sunday) morning. I’d have thought we’d have lasted longer but perhaps plugging in the night before wasn’t enough to mean we set off with max charge.

 

[Wildcamper]

Overnight charging from mains should have been plenty to fully charge the battery, even with the fridge on. Then driving would also add charge. So something is amiss! Is the battery dead, been allowed to fully discharge? Is the battery charging at all? Check fuses. Is the charging controller working, both on mains and with engine running? Check battery voltage when plugged in ~14V and when unplugged. How quickly does the voltage drop with say fridge on and not on mains or engine power.

 

[flying banana]

The leisure batteries have a habit of discharging into the starter battery whilst driving when the alternator cuts out. You can see this as negative amps on the display. To overcome this turn on a heated seat at level 1. The batteries will now all charge all the time the engine is on. For reference I get 5 days out of mine

 

[WelshGas]

Just had our first weekend away in new van and were off grid.
Any tips on what we could have done better are welcome.
Plugged van into mains on Thursday night and put fridge on. Drove to site on Friday. Other than fridge, some lights and charging phones didn’t think we’d used much power but ran out today (Sunday) morning. I’d have thought we’d have lasted longer but perhaps plugging in the night before wasn’t enough to mean we set off with max charge.

Firstly. How do you onow you ran out of power?
Was it the Control Panel saying 0 hrs left, or did something stop working?
What was the voltage shown on the Control Panel when you ran out?

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Firstly. How do you onow you ran out of power?
Was it the Control Panel saying 0 hrs left, or did something stop working?
What was the voltage shown on the Control Panel when you ran out?

I got a low power warning and then a no power warning. Nothing powered by the leisure batteries would work. I didn’t look at the voltage on the CP so I don’t know.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Overnight charging from mains should have been plenty to fully charge the battery, even with the fridge on. Then driving would also add charge. So something is amiss! Is the battery dead, been allowed to fully discharge? Is the battery charging at all? Check fuses. Is the charging controller working, both on mains and with engine running? Check battery voltage when plugged in ~14V and when unplugged. How quickly does the voltage drop with say fridge on and not on mains or engine power.

I’ll investigate this. Thanks. The battery is charging but doesn’t appear to be charging fully to 100%.

 

[Hedley Wright]

The leisure batteries have a habit of discharging into the starter battery whilst driving when the alternator cuts out. You can see this as negative amps on the display. To overcome this turn on a heated seat at level 1. The batteries will now all charge all the time the engine is on. For reference I get 5 days out of mine

Presumably using the max charge setting in the overhead control panel on a T6.1 will achieve the same thing. Is that not an option on a T6?

 

[Stu@rt]

Really difficult to say without the voltage numbers.

Hopefully you have popped the van on EHU since returning home. It's recommended that you do this once a month or so to get them to 100% and maintain their condition. Driving alone (Without setting Max Charge) will only achieve 80% or so.

I'd suggest that you pop them back on charge at home and grab some photo's of the control panel when charging and then again at rest, after charging completes.

 

[chockswahay]

The leisure batteries have a habit of discharging into the starter battery whilst driving when the alternator cuts out. You can see this as negative amps on the display. To overcome this turn on a heated seat at level 1. The batteries will now all charge all the time the engine is on. For reference I get 5 days out of mine

That sounds a good idea, does it still work even when the seats turn them selves off?

 

[WelshGas]

That sounds a good idea, does it still work even when the seats turn them selves off?

Does on mine.

 

[ardm17]

Just had our first weekend away in new van and were off grid.
Any tips on what we could have done better are welcome.
Plugged van into mains on Thursday night and put fridge on. Drove to site on Friday. Other than fridge, some lights and charging phones didn’t think we’d used much power but ran out today (Sunday) morning. I’d have thought we’d have lasted longer but perhaps plugging in the night before wasn’t enough to mean we set off with max charge.

This is your brand new van, right? Long way from being an expert but with our similar age van (i.e. brand new) we have done 2 off 2 night trips away. Fridge, phone charge and lights etc. no worries off-grid. I was led to believe 3 to 4 days on batteries would be no great stretch.

So, sounds like something is not right - perhaps the batteries have sat flat in the van prior to delivery. Could be a warranty claim there?

 

[WelshGas]

I got a low power warning and then a no power warning. Nothing powered by the leisure batteries would work. I didn’t look at the voltage on the CP so I don’t know.

Couple of simple checks, unless you want to leave it to VW.
1. Check voltage on Control Panel when on hookup. Should be greater than 13v, in fact nearer 14.4v.
2. Check voltage on CP , not on hookup, with engine running and Max Charge switch On. Should be 14+ volts.
The above would confirm the Hookup Charger and Alternator are working.

Get yourself a Multimeter.
Disconnect the Red + tve lead on the rear Leisure battery, access via door bottom of rear wardrobe. Wrap disconnected lead in rubber glove as it is connected to front Leisure Battery so still live. Using Multimeter check voltage of front battery connecting meter to red lead and chassis or Black -tve terminal. This gives voltage of front Leisure battery.
Then measure voltage of rear battery from red +tve pole connection and Black -tve lead. This gives voltage of rear Leisure battery. If 0volts, remove Cube fuse on rear battery +tve pole and check again. If voltage greater than 0v and less than front Leisure Battery voltage then Cube Fuse has blown.
Charge rear Leisure Battery with a separate battery charger to 12.7v, replace 75amp Cube Fuse and reconnect Red +tve lead.

The Cube fuse is fairly delicate and can easily fail and if it does you will only be running on 1 Leisure Battery so would be lucky to get more than 48hrs usage with fridge on etc.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Couple of simple checks, unless you want to leave it to VW.
1. Check voltage on Control Panel when on hookup. Should be greater than 13v, in fact nearer 14.4v.
2. Check voltage on CP , not on hookup, with engine running and Max Charge switch On. Should be 14+ volts.
The above would confirm the Hookup Charger and Alternator are working.

Get yourself a Multimeter.
Disconnect the Red + tve lead on the rear Leisure battery, access via door bottom of rear wardrobe. Wrap disconnected lead in rubber glove as it is connected to front Leisure Battery so still live. Using Multimeter check voltage of front battery connecting meter to red lead and chassis or Black -tve terminal. This gives voltage of front Leisure battery.
Then measure voltage of rear battery from red +tve pole connection and Black -tve lead. This gives voltage of rear Leisure battery. If 0volts, remove Cube fuse on rear battery +tve pole and check again. If voltage greater than 0v and less than front Leisure Battery voltage then Cube Fuse has blown.
Charge rear Leisure Battery with a separate battery charger to 12.7v, replace 75amp Cube Fuse and reconnect Red +tve lead.

The Cube fuse is fairly delicate and can easily fail and if it does you will only be running on 1 Leisure Battery so would be lucky to get more than 48hrs usage with fridge on etc.

Thanks. I think I'll leave it to VW as it is a brand new van and I'm not the poking about type! It sounds like the Cube fuse as the van is definitely charging ok - both from the engine and hook up but the panel only ever shows it as 50% full.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Really difficult to say without the voltage numbers.

Hopefully you have popped the van on EHU since returning home. It's recommended that you do this once a month or so to get them to 100% and maintain their condition. Driving alone (Without setting Max Charge) will only achieve 80% or so.

I'd suggest that you pop them back on charge at home and grab some photo's of the control panel when charging and then again at rest, after charging completes.

Last night before it spent a night on charge and now.

 

[Stu@rt]

Last night before it spent a night on charge and now.

View attachment 98855

View attachment 98856

So was at 12.8V before being charged and 12.5V today after being on charged overnight?
On EHU all night and voltage has dropped?

Do you get the orange EHU symbol when on charge? The one by the control knob.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

So was at 12.8V before being charged and 12.5V today after being on charged overnight?
On EHU all night and voltage has dropped?

Do you get the orange EHU symbol when on charge? The one by the control knob.

Yes that’s correct - and we did get the orange EHU symbol when it was on charge.

 

[Stu@rt]

Yes that’s correct - and we did get the orange EHU symbol when it was on charge.

Hmmmm I'm gonna bow out gracefully here, as I am at a loss how the batteries have depleted from 12.8 to 12.5 whilst being on charge. I am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to assist. Nothing left switched on or plugged in during this period?

 

[.Billy Ocean.]

I’m probably of no use here whatsoever, but I’m sure I read a post saying make sure you don’t leave anything (such as a charger) plugged in to the inverter socket in the passenger seat, as even if it’s not charging, it will still drain the battery.

Like I say, please feel free to ignore me, but may be worth checking that socket.

Hope you get it resolved quickly, not the best start to your van adventures.

Edit for spelling.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Hmmmm I'm gonna bow out gracefully here, as I am at a loss how the batteries have depleted from 12.8 to 12.5 whilst being on charge. I am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to assist. Nothing left switched on or plugged in during this period?

Sorry - I’ve not made things clear. Pic 2 was taken a good few hours after taking it off charge so it could have lost some power.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

My batteries were always charged to 100% from the drive to a site. They then lost 10% a day with fridge and lights etc. Now - after 13 years - they lose 15/20% a day.
Easily would last 5 days originally, now 4.

I take it on new vans you no longer need to flick the switch in the boot up and down for EHU and Generator??

I’m always surprised that people seem to talk about the batteries like they’re an emergency backup. We hardly ever plug in in the UK.

 

[Rololux]

I have had a similar experience with the control system shutting everything off after little more than 24 hours, and the control panel saying the batteries were flat - charge immediately. I took it to the dealer to get it checked out, and they said everything was fine with the batteries. Not sure if they really did check properly though, as they did not even open the hatch for the rear battery during their inspection. It is possible that my cube fuse is blown - have not got around to checking this yet.

Dealer did say, however (and you may want to take this with a pinch of salt), that VW is aware of the problem on some vans, and that they are working on a software fix, but this will not be available for some months. Apparently, the batteries do not actually go flat, but the software ‘thinks’ they are flat!! Believable?

 

[yossarian]

It is possible that my cube fuse is blown - have not got around to checking this yet.

You should, long term deep discharge will destroy the battery.

Apparently, the batteries do not actually go flat, but the software ‘thinks’ they are flat!! Believable?

The exact opposite problem is demonstrable on the VW wiring diagram. I suspect this has filtered 4th hand to the dealers who have not understood what was explained to them.

 

[jonny_and_lou]

Thanks for everyone's contribution. It's certainly confirmed my thoughts that something isn't right. I've booked it in with VW for a diagnostic check and I'll report back here what the outcome is.

 

[Skootyalan]

I had a low battery warning and then empty battery warning. VW checked and battery was fully charged. It was the notorious s/w update 0809 that fixed the problems. Have you had any issues with your Sat Nav or other infotainment systems?

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

We are still to resolve our drained leisure battery issues with VW …. Am speaking to Dealer on Monday for an update to the technical query the dealer apparently raised with the factory so will update forum on response… interesting you mentions sat nav/infotainment issues … we had issues on both and battery issues only occurred after the s/w update