Leisure battery regular charging at home

[WelshGas]

The snag I will have, like others, is that I’ll need to string out several hundred feet of extension lead over public land to do that. Not really ideal, or convenient. A ‘while driving’ solution is what I am after.


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I'm afraid there isn't a " while driving solution ". Because of the BlueMotion Regenerative braking function the Alternator will not charge the Leisure Batteries above approximately 75-80% capacity, although the Control Panel may well show higher.
VW state in the Handbook monthly Mains Charging to prolong the life of the Leisure Batteries. The only alternative is a roof top Solar Panel, which because of the electronics used in the Solar Panel Controller can give a 100% charge, or a monthly trip to a campsite and plug into the mains.

 

[WelshGas]

That is not a problem as both the SE/Ocean and now the Beach have a built-in split charge system that will charge both sets of batteries (engine and leisure) while driving as standard equipment.

Alan

Only to about 80% total capacity because of the BlueMotion Regenerative Braking system.

 

[AlanC]

Only to about 80% total capacity because of the BlueMotion Regenerative Braking system.

Ahh! Didn't know that.

Is Regenerative Braking just a BlueMotion thing or does it apply to all new Calis now?
Mine is a simple 2 wheel drive nothing extra SE. The joys of simplicity.

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

Ahh! Didn't know that.

Is Regenerative Braking just a BlueMotion thing or does it apply to all new Calis now?
Mine is a simple 2 wheel drive nothing extra SE. The joys of simplicity.

Alan

Used to be an option but now standard on All models since at least 2014?

BlueMotion - Regenerative Braking, Stop/Start and some other things.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/bluemotion-technologies

 

[Ocean Spirit]

So ....
Novice alert.
Feeling the pressure from this thread and wishing to keep my leisure batteries in good shape, I stuck my Cali on charge through the hook up today and will take it off in the morning.
But,
I have never really used the batteries yet, sure I've sat in the living area a couple of times with lights on for 1/2 hour or so but it gets a decent commute that I think does the 'top up' easily.
No fridge or extended use of lights...nothing yet.

When I first plugged in the console read this


Then started to drop, not long after it read this



By 6 o'clock it read 14.3V and was taking 2.6Amps (having unlocked and opened the drivers door)

Does that sound healthy???
My electrical understanding is rubbish but I'm assuming this is all good?

 

[WelshGas]

So ....
Novice alert.
Feeling the pressure from this thread and wishing to keep my leisure batteries in good shape, I stuck my Cali on charge through the hook up today and will take it off in the morning.
But,
I have never really used the batteries yet, sure I've sat in the living area a couple of times with lights on for 1/2 hour or so but it gets a decent commute that I think does the 'top up' easily.
No fridge or extended use of lights...nothing yet.

When I first plugged in the console read this
View attachment 30654

Then started to drop, not long after it read this

View attachment 30655

By 6 o'clock it read 14.3V and was taking 2.6Amps (having unlocked and opened the drivers door)

Does that sound healthy???
My electrical understanding is rubbish but I'm assuming this is all good?

That’s fine.
Just using the engine to charge will only take the Leisure Batteries to about 80% of their total capacity because of the BlueMotion system and Regenerative Braking. Only Mains Charging will get it all the way.
The Control Panel % Display is not an accurate assessment of the Batteries capacity/capability. Voltage and current readings are OK.

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Thank you Sir !

 

[Dave Lowe]

I've said it before .... You know what your on about WelshGas

 

[Skewif]

Please where does this leasure battery only gets charged to 80% when driving and starter only to 80% with blue motion come from? It makes no sense. Technical data anyone?

 

[WelshGas]

Please where does this leasure battery only gets charged to 80% when driving and starter only to 80% with blue motion come from? It makes no sense. Technical data anyone?

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/31782-keeping-fully-charged


The initiative behind the introduction of smart alternators / regenerative braking is to lower CO2 emissions and to improve miles per gallon / KM per litre for EU regulations. These smart alternators are installed on modern European Vehicles (Euro 5, Euro 6 + and newer engine models). The object of this new system is to utilise a vehicles wasted kinetic energy during braking / deceleration cycles experienced in every day motoring and rapidly convert as much of that energy (which is usually wasted as braking heat) into useful electricity and store this energy in the starter battery. Then, during acceleration and cruising release this energy back into the vehicles running system as “free electrical energy“ thus reducing the time where an alternator loads the main engine. This increases MPG/KPLand lowers CO2 emissions. However, in order for this system to be effective, the starter battery must have ‘free space’ to boost the energy into the battery, this requires the battery to be about 20% depleted (low enough to allow more power to be boosted into it but not too low as to prevent the engine from restarting when switched off). To replenish this ‘free space’, during deceleration or braking events, the voltage on the alternator shoots up to approximately 15V+. This higher voltage fast charges the starter battery to replenish its capacity. As you are using the inertia of the vehicle to charge the battery, rather than fuel, it is seen as ‘free energy’. Then the voltage drops to about 12.4V to allow the free energy to be consumed by the vehicle allowing the battery to deplete itself by about 20% ready for the next speed reduction and so on and so forth. Albeit an improvement in terms of emissions, there are knock on effects regarding the auxiliary charging systems on board commercial vehicles, read on: Problems with Smart Alternator / Regenerative Braking The system requires a 20% empty starter battery for the system to work. It needs the space to “dump” the fast energy build up during braking. This is in direct conflict with the auxiliary charging system requirements, why? 1) No charge going into the batteries during the 12.2-12.4V phase (which is totally by primary system design). Therefore, if a simple relay charging system was used to charge the auxiliary system it would not be charged during this time frame. This will be a problem if you require a charged auxiliary battery during travel or at location to location. 2) Very high battery charge rate during vehicle deceleration / braking due to alternator high voltage. This is relatively problem free for the starter battery as its relatively full. However, a large empty auxiliary bank could experience high currents at high voltages (much higher than their recommended level) which would be detrimental to the battery leading to premature destruction.

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/auxiliary-battery-charging-in-vehicles-with-smart-alternators.html

 

[Amarillo]

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/31782-keeping-fully-charged.

A brilliant and informative post. Thank you.

Could any harm be caused by maintaining a float charge to 100% on the starter battery with solar?

I can think of several marginal advantages, such as less fear from using parking lights or radio, but are there any downsides?


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[Skewif]

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/31782-keeping-fully-charged


The initiative behind the introduction of smart alternators / regenerative braking is to lower CO2 emissions and to improve miles per gallon / KM per litre for EU regulations. These smart alternators are installed on modern European Vehicles (Euro 5, Euro 6 + and newer engine models). The object of this new system is to utilise a vehicles wasted kinetic energy during braking / deceleration cycles experienced in every day motoring and rapidly convert as much of that energy (which is usually wasted as braking heat) into useful electricity and store this energy in the starter battery. Then, during acceleration and cruising release this ene

So on a new BlueMotion van all the batteries only get charged to 75-80% when driving. Surely that would then mean when traveling/camping without using hookup you will only have 20% of usable battery capacity if not wanting to go much below ~60% which is good practice for long battery life? This would also mean the camper control is misreading by 20% because mine says 100% after a run and you have previously mentioned after a drive your control read 100% / 12.7+ volts. Something here can't be correct.
On a pre BM Cali if you drive for long enough you can bring the batteries to near fully charged. Therefor a pre BM van would have near twice the usable leisure battery capacity than a BM one that only charges to 80%. Hence why I feel it doesn't make sense and it would also be a huge backward step for us wild campers.

 

[RichieVW]

Apologies - Stupid question from a complete newbie!
I've only had my Beach for a month and have never charged it at home through the mains. It is used for a daily commute (approx. 30/40 mins each way).
We plan our first trip away the end of this month, so when using EHU on a site, does that supply your internal lights, radio, cool/warm box etc. whilst also charging you leisure battery?

Thanks in advance.

 

[AlanC]

Apologies - Stupid question from a complete newbie!
I've only had my Beach for a month and have never charged it at home through the mains. It is used for a daily commute (approx. 30/40 mins each way).
We plan our first trip away the end of this month, so when using EHU on a site, does that supply your internal lights, radio, cool/warm box etc. whilst also charging you leisure battery?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, when you are on EHU, the leisure battery on the beach will be charged up via its on board charger. All the leisure lights and power sockets, which run off the leisure battery will also be supplied as normal. You will notice no difference.

The radio is powered by the engine battery which is protected from excessive drain by the vehicle computer. This will turn off the radio and the vehicle lights (i.e. the ones above the interior mirror and in the door footwells, after about 20mins depending on the computer Canbus setting.

The engine battery will also get a trickle charge when the van is on EHU, but not enough to fully charge it if it is flat.

Hope that helps

Alan

 

[WelshGas]

So on a new BlueMotion van all the batteries only get charged to 75-80% when driving. Surely that would then mean when traveling/camping without using hookup you will only have 20% of usable battery capacity if not wanting to go much below ~60% which is good practice for long battery life? This would also mean the camper control is misreading by 20% because mine says 100% after a run and you have previously mentioned after a drive your control read 100% / 12.7+ volts. Something here can't be correct.
On a pre BM Cali if you drive for long enough you can bring the batteries to near fully charged. Therefor a pre BM van would have near twice the usable leisure battery capacity than a BM one that only charges to 80%. Hence why I feel it doesn't make sense and it would also be a huge backward step for us wild campers.

I think you will find the Voltage and % Capacity shown will drop quicker on Leisure Batteries charged to 100% via the Alternator than on the same Batteries charged via the Charger. Well thats what I've noticed.

Also you should wait for at least 30 if not 60 minutes to measure voltage etc: after taking the batteries off charge.

Also, I'm not sure what batteries pre-BlueMotion vehicles have. I do know that there are a number of types of AGM batteries and as far as the engine battery is concerned on BlueMotion vehicles you have to have the correct type and I believe the Vehicle has to be coded to a new battery otherwise it will have a shortened life span.

 

[Silver5urfer]

I have a 2013 California Beach which does not have an Electrical Hook Up.
Does anyone know if I can charge up the leisure battery using one of the rear lighter sockets and my CTEK CT5 stop/start battery charger designed for AGM batteries. I am worried it might damage the charging circuitry of the van.
It would be completely impractical to remove the battery to charge it regularly.

 

[calikev]

I fitted a ctek charger directly to the leisure battery so when I’m on hook up I just plug it in and run fridge etc from the 12v sockets

 

[Silver5urfer]

That sounds beyond my skill set. Did you just add some connection leads directly to the battery terminals, or was it a more complicated process.

 

[Sad]

I have a 2013 California Beach which does not have an Electrical Hook Up.
Does anyone know if I can charge up the leisure battery using one of the rear lighter sockets and my CTEK CT5 stop/start battery charger designed for AGM batteries. I am worried it might damage the charging circuitry of the van.
It would be completely impractical to remove the battery to charge it regularly.

Doesn't have electric hook-up? That doesn't sound right...

 

[WelshGas]

Doesn't have electric hook-up? That doesn't sound right...

It was a paid for Option on the Beach until about 2014/15.

 

[burnercan]

It was a paid for Option on the Beach until about 2014/15.

It was still an expensive option on my Beach, delivered May this year.


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[WelshGas]

That sounds beyond my skill set. Did you just add some connection leads directly to the battery terminals, or was it a more complicated process.

Buy this Connection Lead. Permanently fixed to Leisure Battery and then just plug the CTek Charger in as and when .

https://www.tayna.co.uk/battery-chargers/ctek-accessories/56-382/

 

[WelshGas]

It was still an expensive option on my Beach, delivered May this year.


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That's because yours is a T6. I think it became standard on the last of the T5.1's in the UK.

 

[calikev]

That sounds beyond my skill set. Did you just add some connection leads directly to the battery terminals, or was it a more complicated process.

Exactly that push the passenger seat forward as far as it will go remove the trim panel at the bottom of the seat lift up the rubber battery cover and connect the clips.actually I think my charger had a choice of clips or round terminals I undid each side one at a time and connected the round terminals then put it all back.i have a hook up lead with an rcd and sockets on I plug the charger in then run my fridge etc from the 12v sockets the charger puts more into the battery than my fridge takes out . Also handy to charge the leisure battery at home.

 

[burnercan]

That's because yours is a T6. I think it became standard on the last of the T5.1's in the UK.

Ah ok. Always mystifying how they decide these options. And this one is a big ticket too!


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