LEZ/CAZ Confusion

[JaneJ]

Hey there chaps - wondering if anyone can help.

Just looking at driving into Bath this weekend and also London next weekend.

I put my Vehicle Reg into the system (2013 SE 180 4Motion BMT) and it says I am liable for the charge in Bath.

My friend put his vehicle reg in (2011 SE 180) and he has no charge - even though it's an older vehicle. I also put in the reg of my previous Cali (2014 SE BMT) and that also doesn't get charged.

Enter the vehicle registration (number plate) | Drive in a clean air zone | GOV.UK

vehiclecheck.drive-clean-air-zone.service.gov.uk

The only difference I can see is the 4Motion - Anyone else experience this strange anomaly?

Unlike your friend's exempt 2011 SE 180, my similar Cali is not exempt because its vehicle tax category is Private Light Goods, not M1. When I queried this with Bath's CAZ team, I received the following response:

The charge is dependent on the category of the vehicle and its Euro standard. Any vehicle classification which is in N1 and with a non-compliant engine (below Euro-6 standard for diesel and below Euro 4 for petrol) will be charged for entering the clean air zone. Unfortunately, this is not based on looks or style and we do not have any input into which classification vehicles are assigned as this is determined by the DVLA.

Recently there has been an exemption added for motorcaravans but only with M1 on their V5c. This exception is simply because Bath Council consulted that no cars (M1 category) would be charged in Bath’s CAZ. Therefore, we have honoured that. Unfortunately, if your vehicle is not classified as M1 then it will be chargeable if it is a pre Euro 6 diesel.

As PLG, we've paid less vehicle tax, so I suppose we can't have it all ways.

 

[Louis II]

Hey there chaps - wondering if anyone can help.

Just looking at driving into Bath this weekend and also London next weekend.

I put my Vehicle Reg into the system (2013 SE 180 4Motion BMT) and it says I am liable for the charge in Bath.

My friend put his vehicle reg in (2011 SE 180) and he has no charge - even though it's an older vehicle. I also put in the reg of my previous Cali (2014 SE BMT) and that also doesn't get charged.

Enter the vehicle registration (number plate) | Drive in a clean air zone | GOV.UK

vehiclecheck.drive-clean-air-zone.service.gov.uk

The only difference I can see is the 4Motion - Anyone else experience this strange anomaly?

I live near bath and regularly travel in the Zone in my 2015 SE (Euro 5).

If you are travelling this weekend and the your vehicle comes up as chargeable then just pay the £9. Anything else just isn't worth the hassle.
The cameras work of off the same database as the website so if you don't pay you'll get a PCN and will have no grounds for appeal as based on the charging order (the legal document that brings the zone into law) a vehicle type M1 with body type motor caravan is chargeable unless it meets the Euro 6 emissions standard.

There do seem to be some errors in the system meaning that some vehicles that are legally chargeable are showing in the database as exempt (welshgas being an example)

If you plan to travel to bath more regularly then as mentioned above there is a specific exemption for vehicles with vehicle type M1 and body type motor caravan regardless of emissions standard. You have to apply for it and it takes time to come through, in the mean time you have to pay the £9

 

[Bluebird]

2016 150 Ocean Euro 6

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Loz]

2016 150 Ocean Euro 6

Makes no sense to me.
View attachment 86329

Do you have Adblue on yours?

 

[Bluebird]

Do you have Adblue on yours?

Yes.

 

[Chainline]

There is clearly something amis here. Either a criteria I can’t see that includes it (van/motor caravan) or it’s just plain incorrect. Hence my pushback on the checker. At least it isn’t just me. Not that it helps.

 

[Bluebird]

View attachment 86299​

As far as I can ascertain the Euro 6 standard for diesel is 80mg/km of Nox.
Your V5 above ( V.3) shows 53mg/km of Nox.

Surely the proof they need is on the V5 already ?
I think that’s right but Ive had wine so can’t be sure.

 

[Meoncoast]

We run a 2016 T6. So Most odd why @Bluebird has to pay for Birmingham Also makes no sense to me.

Clean Air Zone	Daily charge	Zone live	Map	Exemptions
Bath	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Bath and North East Somerset Council
Birmingham	No Charge	Now	Zone boundary	Birmingham City Council
Portsmouth	No Charge	29 November 2021	Zone boundary	Portsmouth City Council

 

[Stoneybroke]

I have transcribed the below (safe) sections of my V5 for comparison and to see if it sheds any light on the differences.
Mine is a DSG but no mention of Auto/Manual of the V5 that I can see.
This vehicle is exempt from Bath, Birmingham and Portsmouth CAZ according to the .gov.uk site.
Excise Licence was £200 in March 2021 (CO2 162/Band G) - now £210.

V5 Section 4 - Vehicle Details
B. Date of 1st Reg.	30/09/2016​
D.2 Type	7HC
D.3 Model	California Beach TDI BMT S-A
D.5 Body type	Motor Caravan
X Taxation Class	Diesel Car
V.7 CO2	162 G/KM
P.3 Fuel Type	Heavy Oil
J. Vehicle Category	M1
K. Type Approval Number	e1*2001-116*0220*44
P.2 Max net power (kW)	110kW
F.1 Max Permissible mass	3000
G. Mass in service	2304
V Exhaust Emissions:
V.1 CO (g/km or g/kWh)	0.109​
V.2 HC (g/km or g/kWh)	-
V.3 NOx (g/km or g/kWh)	0.060​
V.4 HC+NOx (g/km or g/kWh)	0.074​
V.5 particulates	-

 

[Bluebird]

Birmingham clean air zone website directed me to the DVLA website who have asked for proof from the manufacturer. I attached a copy of the V5 that shows the NOx values supplied by the manufacturer and included by the DVLA on the V5 are those of a Euro 6 engine.
I will update when/if I get a reply from them.

 

[AndyGreybeard]

I have transcribed the below (safe) sections of my V5 for comparison and to see if it sheds any light on the differences.
Mine is a DSG but no mention of Auto/Manual of the V5 that I can see.
This vehicle is exempt from Bath, Birmingham and Portsmouth CAZ according to the .gov.uk site.
Excise Licence was £200 in March 2021 (CO2 162/Band G) - now £210.

V5 Section 4 - Vehicle Details
B. Date of 1st Reg.	​ 30/09/2016​
D.2 Type	7HC
D.3 Model	California Beach TDI BMT S-A
D.5 Body type	Motor Caravan
X Taxation Class	Diesel Car
V.7 CO2	162 G/KM
P.3 Fuel Type	Heavy Oil
J. Vehicle Category	M1
K. Type Approval Number	e1*2001-116*0220*44
P.2 Max net power (kW)	110kW
F.1 Max Permissible mass	3000
G. Mass in service	2304
V Exhaust Emissions:
V.1 CO (g/km or g/kWh)	​ 0.109​
V.2 HC (g/km or g/kWh)	-
V.3 NOx (g/km or g/kWh)	​ 0.060​
V.4 HC+NOx (g/km or g/kWh)	​ 0.074​
V.5 particulates	-

Hi
I believe the S-A in D3 Model denotes Semi-Automatic, which is for DSG.
Andy

 

[Perfectos]

TFL website extract - apparently D.2 on your V5 shows the emission standard I.e. Euro standard relevant to your vehicle

What are the standards?​

To meet the ULEZ emissions standard, your vehicle must meet the required Euro emissions standard for your vehicle and emission type. For newer vehicles, the Euro emission standard may be listed in section D.2 of your V5C.

from the AA website

RDE is being introduced in two steps:​

RDE step 1 – applies to new type approvals from 1 September 2017 and to all new registrations from 1 September 2019.

• For RDE1 a NOx conformity factor of 2.1 will apply meaning that NOx emissions in the RDE1 test can be up to 2.1 times the Euro 6 laboratory limit of 80mg/km.
• Cars type approved during this period will be described as meeting Euro 6d-temp.

RDE step 2 – applies to new type approvals from 1 January 2020 and to all new registrations from 1 January 2021.

• For RDE2 the NOx conformity factor is 1.0 but with an error margin of 0.5 meaning that NOx emissions in the RDE2 test can be up to 1.5 times the Euro 6 laboratory limit of 80mg/km.
• Cars type approved during this period will be described as meeting Euro 6d.

From September 2018, the Euro standard to which a new car has been certified will be shown on the V5c vehicle registration document and the online ' Get vehicle information from DVLA ' service.


edit: interesting that the info on the government website (link above) for my vehicle says :Euro Status “Not available“ !

edit: this link explains the level for each Euro standard

https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/media/2972/european-emission-standard.pdf

 

[Chainline]

I have just received confirmation from CAZ after my challenges that my Beach is exempt and they are updating the records accordingly.

It does seem that there are mistakes so it is worth checking/pursuing if it does flag a Euro 6 vehicle as having to pay, for now. I’m sure eventually we will!

 

[Perfectos]

I have just received confirmation from CAZ after my challenges that my Beach is exempt and they are updating the records accordingly.

It does seem that there are mistakes so it is worth checking/pursuing if it does flag a Euro 6 vehicle as having to pay, for now. I’m sure eventually we will!

Certainly worth checking and Challenging if incorrect, nice work

 

[Stoneybroke]

I have just received confirmation from CAZ after my challenges that my Beach is exempt and they are updating the records accordingly.

It does seem that there are mistakes so it is worth checking/pursuing if it does flag a Euro 6 vehicle as having to pay, for now. I’m sure eventually we will!

Brilliant.
I wonder if this is just a Birmingham issue or a central one...

 

[Bluebird]

I have also received a reply from the DVLA

Based on the information available on your vehicle's DVLA record, I can confirm that your vehicle is compliant with the minimum emissions standards for Clean Air Zones, and your vehicle is not subject to Clean Air Zone charges. I have requested for your record to be updated to reflect this. This will be updated within 2 working days. Please check back on the Vehicle Checker before your next journey into or within the Clean Air Zone.

A fairly quick and painless fix.

 

[Bluebird]

Brilliant.
I wonder if this is just a Birmingham issue or a central one...

Mine was only Birmingham but the error apparently was on DVLA records. I have no intention of going to Birmingham but I think other cities will also start enforcing clean air zones. I wanted it sorted before Manchester or Liverpool followed suit.

 

[Bluebird]

Just checked website again and it’s been updated already.

 

[reserves]

Is there a consensus on the earliest California you can buy second hand that will still be ULEZ / LEZ compliant?

I assumed it was the T6 (Euro 6) but reading this thread seems some 2012 ones are ok?

 

[WelshGas]

Is there a consensus on the earliest California you can buy second hand that will still be ULEZ / LEZ compliant?

I assumed it was the T6 (Euro 6) but reading this thread seems some 2012 ones are ok?

I would think T6 and above. Older ones may be incorrectly identified and may change over time.

 

[Loz]

The first t6's were Euro 5 (no AdBlue) but anything built after August 2016 are Euro 6

 

[WelshGas]

The first t6's were Euro 5 (no AdBlue) but anything built after August 2016 are Euro 6

If my memory serves me correctly only the early N1 Commercial T6's were Euro 5. All M1 T6 Californias were Euro 6.

 

[rod_vw]

If my memory serves me correctly only the early N1 Commercial T6's were Euro 5. All M1 T6 Californias were Euro 6.

My camper is a Euro 5 N1 T6 140ps Highline (V5C shows Motor Caravan) and shows as compliant in all checkable zones including the ULEZ.
I believe as far as the T6 is concerned it's more the fact that it is BMT (Blue Motion Technology) and not so much Euro 5 or 6.

 

[reserves]

My camper is a Euro 5 N1 T6 140ps Highline (V5C shows Motor Caravan) and shows as compliant in all checkable zones including the ULEZ.
I believe as far as the T6 is concerned it's more the fact that it is BMT (Blue Motion Technology) and not so much Euro 5 or 6.

The 2014’a are BlueMotion but I don’t think these pass.

 

[Johnboy]

I fell foul of the London LEZ (which annoyingly includes Heathrow carparks).

Family of 7 in one vehicle (T4 syncro) going on holiday - parking up in heathrow. I got a nasty letter saying next time would be £100 fine.

I wasn't sure why this was because the syncro is 4 wheel drive. In the end it boiled down to my registration documents which had the vehicle as a mini-bus. I got this changed to MPV to get round the issue.

So check if your documents state mini-bus (which is 8 seats or more).

John