Locked thread

[Amarillo]

The thread, GOV.UK CONSULTATION - "STRENGTHENING POLICE POWERS TO TACKLE UNAUTHORISED ENCAMPMENTS", in The Three Cocks forum has been locked. The thread has been running for over a year, and is about proposals to curtail wild camping. Over time the conversion has evolved and recently has been about the protests as the Bill passes through various Parliamentary stages. At some point, as the conversation became edgy, it was moved to The Three Cocks Pub forum. The thread has now been locked.

Is the locking of the thread a temporary or permanent measure?

If it is a permanent measure, has the purpose of The Three Cocks Pub forum been changed?

Thanks.

 

[AlisonF]

The thread was moved to the Three Cocks as many of the recent comments were bickering between forum members and not on topic. That is in line with current practice.
The comments became more personal and insulting and hence the decision taken to lock the thread.

 

[westfalia]

Would a protest be allowed to unlock it or has that
right been removed?

 

[Joker 1299]

The thread was moved to the Three Cocks as many of the recent comments were bickering between forum members and not on topic. That is in line with current practice.
The comments became more personal and insulting and hence the decision taken to lock the thread.

Lighten up. What is the worst that can happen?

 

[andyinluton]

I think we need a backroom within the Threecocks where insults can be hurled without everyone getting a bit upset about it. With a big sign "enter at your own risk" on the door.

 

[soulstyledevon]

That was an interesting thread which affects many here.
I’ve seen worst in here that gets less attention...

 

[larrylamb]

I think we need a backroom within the Threecocks where insults can be hurled without everyone getting a bit upset about it. With a big sign "enter at your own risk" on the door.

The 3 Cocks is already supposed to be that. I didn't see the thread in question but seems a bit heavy handed response.

Three Cocks title Quote
"Unmoderated chat only including anything to do with BREXIT. 18+ Enter at your own risk"

 

[GrannyJen]

 

[Dodge1311]

Perhaps if anything in the "Three Cocks" posts did not appear in the general listings or recent or new post lists, then those that don't want to be involved or even aware of the discussion can live in peace and harmony. Those that want to go and seek the alternative debate can easily do so with an extra click of the mouse?
For me the categories are not an aid or a filter, i just scroll down to see what's new today, perhaps it may be easier for the moderators to ring fence the "three cocks" as room within a room and don't list in in the main thread.

As this site is principle aimed at supporting a community and a business attached to that community ,i can understand why some of the more emotive topics may be off putting to some people, and as such not broadly considered to be suitable for all.

While we all should be proud of our right to freedom of expression and our beliefs and opinions can be shared when we impart or receive information, that same freedom apples to those in the same vicinity who have a choice to take part, abstain or avoid such debate, it does not mean however that to abstain or avoid they should have to remove themselves.

In the same way that anyone can go to the pub and vent their spleen to the masses, can be politely told to tone it down or take it elsewhere where people are interested in listening. One of the pitfalls of a capitalist democracy i am afraid is that the majority wins, regardless of the passion or validity of the opposing opinion.

In over simplistic terms the moderators are applying affirmative action in favour of the silent majority that are presumably seen as the current and future lifeblood of this site.

Note i never saw the original thread or the direction it was leading however as the title suggests it was a debate on the pros and cons of the right to "Peaceful Protest" which as we have all seen recently has been hijacked by what at best could be described as Non violent resistance which is a completely different form and level of civil disobedience which while it falls short of lethal violence blurr's many other boundaries of right and wrong under a political or cause banner.

 

[Velma's Dad]

Lots of internet forums have this type of dilemma. My 2p worth:

If posters have a slanging match that (tediously) goes on beyond a brief exchange then it seems reasonable to put the thread in Three Cocks and the antagonists and any spectators can then continue to have at it there if they really want. If they decide to have a pub fight, only bytes get broken not tables or heads.

There might be times when a thread could usefully be locked but then maybe just freeze it for a 'time out' period until the parties have cooled off and then it could be re-opened. (I agree there is a delicious irony to a thread about rights to protest etc being permanently locked down )

If a thread has been frozen then that's a warning to the antagonists to leave out the childish behaviour when it re-opens. If they kick off again on that thread then fair enough lock the thing down for good.

Anyone posting anything grossly offensive (I don't mean bickering or snarking or sarcasm or playground name calling) should have their whole account cancelled. We don't want them on our forum.

Just my thoughts, I know I don't actually have to moderate this stuff.

 

[clarinetbcn]

The inability to express an opinion without including personal insults is a form of unhealthy exhibitionism engaged in by a small minority. It happens on the open daily threads, and by the time moderators move it to The 3 Cocks the damage is done and people have left in droves. The damage to the Forum is real, especially to new members who will think twice before posting with potentially helpful information in this climate. What are moderators supposed to do? The trouble with locking threads is that this gives the power over expression to a small minority of posters who can provoke a lockdown for everybody whenever they feel like it.

 

[flying banana]

well i read some of that thread and the so called insults. i've heard worse in my time, i've read worse in my time and i've seen alot worse in my time. i'm sure all the adults in here have. seems to me that the offence is taken by the moderator on behalf of some one else. too much of that going on these days. they can just start up another thread and carry on can't they ?
as said you don't have to read it. i find Eastenders extremely offensive so i refuse to watch it. EASY.
i'm with Amarillo on this one. now as someone kept saying repeatedly and unfunnily in that thread , 'moving on.......'

 

[Vagophile]

I have followed with great interest the thread now locked, without making any contribution, but appreciating the variety of comments made on an important topic.
However, over a period of time responses became more personal and aggressive and it was always likely that it would end up in the Three Cocks, but I don't understand why the thread should be locked.
I have only been a member for just over a year, but to me, it is interesting that I feel that I could predict the "usual suspects" in a slanging match on this type of thread and agree that a "freeze" period might be a good way of dealing with supposed miscreants without permanently shutting down debate.
I know that the site is essentially about camping in Californias, but there are only so many times that one can read about flat batteries or appropriate tyres and a bit of heated general chat, especially if it has some relevance to the general forum can be enjoyable and entertaining.

 

[clarinetbcn]

Streakers can be enjoyable and entertaining, but when it devolves into flashing, unless steps are taken the consequences can be bad as we have unfortunately seen recently. Since some are unable to tell the difference, we have moderators. It's a thankless job, everybody's a critic, but in today's world of rapid technology where some indulge in this in open threads, a small minority could sink the Forum if they weren't there. As this thread shows, a discussion of what moderating means is healthy, let's just not lose sight of how hard a job it is.

 

[GrannyJen]

My views,

If we did not have "off piste" discussions in the last year then this forum would be in need of resuscitation. With No camping to talk about then it would have ground itself down into the banal and repetitive discussions on what soap to clean the van with.

If we did not have passion and opinion in our discussions then what would be the point of any discussion. I might just as well become a trappistine.

Put those two together then inevitably discussions will get heated, battle lines drawn and and other lines crossed, at which point a moderator could either delete offensive messages, move the thread to three cocks, show a yellow card to a repeat offender or close the thread if it could be considered "exhausted".

I have always believed passionately that a forum should allow off-piste discussion, should allow passions and opinions to be generated and should allow argument or else it becomes sterile. As that often will get heated then have somewhere to put the hot air so it does not intrude on others who do not want to share the heat. That' why we have three cocks.

If a moderator then has to make a call on what is going on in an essentially "unmoderated" part of the forum then that is the moderators call.

This forum is generally an easy one to manage. Sometimes, as with the B word and the C word it became a war zone and then got particularly difficult, as I found out. We can't have it both ways. The only thing that stopped the whole forum becoming a war zone were the moderators so don't complain when they also moderate in the peace time.

 

[Borris]

"Streakers can be enjoyable and entertaining"

Have I missed something?

 

[clarinetbcn]

Have I missed something?

Hahahaha!
Actually referring to posts #11and #14, the difference between edgy and unhealthy as compared to the difference between streaking and flashing:

"The inability to express an opinion without including personal insults is a form of unhealthy exhibitionism engaged in by a small minority."

 

[GrannyJen]

Can I just also say ...

Public discussion on a moderation action is not helpful to either the moderator or the forum. In my time if someone was upset with an action taken by me then I would simply ask them to take it up with the Administrators and owners of the forum, @calikev and @Martin. They are the final arbiters, they decide who shall and shall not moderate, they set the rules framework and it is totally unfair to call a moderator out who in the end is having to make a decision based on the good of the forum and the majority of the members.

 

[Borris]

Hahahaha!
Actually referring to post #11, the difference between edgy and unhealthy:

"The inability to express an opinion without including personal insults is a form of unhealthy exhibitionism engaged in by a small minority."

Sorry. My post was rather flippant.

I agree. Opposing opinions will always create healthy debate or even argument and I see nothing wrong with that. In an ideal world members should accept that not everyone will agree with them and therefore agree to disagree but that's not always going to happen is it!. The English language allows any number of ways to make your point effectively without recourse to personal insult. If it comes down to that then the insulter has failed. If your argument is a good one then it should stand on it's own. Those responsible, do themselves no favours by reacting in this manner.

This is primarily a forum dedicated to the owners of VW Californias. Any new members will obviously have joined to access help and advice on said vehicles. I agree that insulting behaviour does put people off. Even I was considering withdrawing from this forum some time ago. That was after the level of heated political argument seemed to be overshadowing the main business of the forum. The Three Cocks was opened and to a certain extent normal service was resumed. Unfortunately, there are one or two members that like to keep starting debate on some political8 issue or other. This sort of thread usually ends up in the Three Cocks or with fighting in the street outside. Personally I would be happy to see anything remotely political banned from the main forum. IMO anyone wanting to post anything of that nature should do accross the bar in the Three Cocks. Then if they get thrown through the saloon bar window into the street, it affects no new comers or existing members on the main forum.

Finally, I'm not a moderator and I appreciate the difficult work they do.

 

[flying banana]

maybe rename the 3 cocks part that clearly says 'anything goes chat ' ? to 'anything goes as long as i agree with you' chat.

 

[GrannyJen]

Sorry. My post was rather flippant.

I agree. Opposing opinions will always create healthy debate or even argument and I see nothing wrong with that. In an ideal world members should accept that not everyone will agree with them and therefore agree to disagree but that's not always going to happen is it!. The English language allows any number of ways to make your point effectively without recourse to personal insult. If it comes down to that then the insulter has failed. If your argument is a good one then it should stand on it's own. Those responsible, do themselves no favours by reacting in this manner.

This is primarily a forum dedicated to the owners of VW Californias. Any new members will obviously have joined to access help and advice on said vehicles. I agree that insulting behaviour does put people off. Even I was considering withdrawing from this forum some time ago. That was after the level of heated political argument seemed to be overshadowing the main business of the forum. The Three Cocks was opened and to a certain extent normal service was resumed. Unfortunately, there are one or two members that like to keep starting debate on some political8 issue or other. This sort of thread usually ends up in the Three Cocks or with fighting in the street outside. Personally I would be happy to see anything remotely political banned from the main forum. IMO anyone wanting to post anything of that nature should do accross the bar in the Three Cocks. Then if they get thrown through the saloon bar window into the street, it affects no new comers or existing members on the main forum.

Finally, I'm not a moderator and I appreciate the difficult work they do.

Political discussion was banned from the main forum last June and I worked my backside off to keep my promise to you and others who wanted no sight of it.

Sadly when it does break out in the open forum there will always be a lull between it being posted and a moderator putting it where it belongs, no mandate of any kind will prevent that. The same edict of June 2020 also made it a punishable offence to deliberately start political discussion, or hijack a thread towards political discussion, the punishment being a penalty point and accrued penalty points being reviewed on a monthly basis by forum owners.

I do think it has largely worked, indeed this forum is a lot more peaceful now than it was during the dark days of B1 and B2 or CV1. ( fondly remembered times of waking up to 12 reported posts, 15 pm's complaining I'm doing nothing or telling me I'm interfering too much and 60 new posts of which I deleted 40)

A lot of talk also about the "usual suspects." Sadly all forums have them and by one of those ironies of forum life they tend to be the ones that in other guises are the most helpful to members, especially those new to the forum wanting to pick brains of those more experienced so a certain amount of "give and take"| is appropriate.

 

[OGII]

I have always believed passionately that a forum should allow off-piste discussion

Sounds like it got to piste-off discussion

As you say we've had a lot to be piste-off about this last year. So happy it's 23 degrees and sunny out there today.

 

[GrannyJen]

Sounds like it got to piste-off discussion

As you say we've had a lot to be piste-off about this last year. So happy it's 23 degrees and sunny out there today.

Lucky you. Was only about 16 degrees on my beachside walk with the dog, the sea is still cold and a stiff breeze still had a chill to it.

I was very piste-off in another forum this morning. I ended up warning 6 members and closing the account of another member, all party to an over-heated discussion that was all balls. The musket and cannon variety. Even boring historians are feeling the strain.

 

[GrannyJen]

Would a protest be allowed to unlock it or has that
right been removed?

No / Yes

 

[Amarillo]

However, over a period of time responses became more personal and aggressive and it was always likely that it would end up in the Three Cocks, but I don't understand why the thread should be locked.

I think that one of the participants in the thread was annoyed by the mounting evidence that not only did some protestors in Bristol behave in an appalling way but so did some of the police. The link to video evidence of the bludgeoning of an apparently peaceful female protestor by the police must have been the final straw.

A complaint was made by the person who couldn't handle the tread about unrelated criminal activity and the thread was locked.