Man maths

[Trail Planner]

Time to reflect on California ownership and do some man (or woman) maths (the wonky maths to justify a purchase).

How many nights a year do you have to use it to break even?

I assume, for my calculations, I'll own it for 10 years, and it replaces a second vehicle I would own to ghet around. I also assume that I would do the same amount of exploring, but use AirBnB, B&B, Hotels and so on, with that second vehicle, similar mileage. I know it is not the same experience, but it helps understand the premium you would pay for owning a California (or other van).

I have owned my T4 California Westfalia now for 24 years, and recently it has been used for 70 nights a year, so over its lifetime, with kids, who at first love it, then hate it, then want to borrow it I think, taking in to account some fallow years, I have spent ~1,200 nights in it. This easily makes a case for ownership and I was very lucky to be able to afford in 2001 (purchase price £26k).

Cost of owning a VW camper - Cost of owning a car - savings made from accommodation and food = is this negative or positive for the number of nights it is used.

What am I missing? (financial responses only please, as I know the value of ownership is subjective).

VW Campervan

Our VW California Westfalia campervan was purchased and imported from Germany from new in 2001. It replaced a T3 high top VW water-cooled campervan we owned in the late 90’s. She is a 2.5l 5…

trailplanner.co.uk

 

[Duff.]

BMW 440 M-Sport - convertible
2018 -£58,500, 2020 £26,000 (sold)

£32,500/24 months = £1,345 per month

California Ocean
2020 -£68,000, 2025 £ 52,000 (Sold)

£24,000/53 months = £435 per month

Man math

 

[Spunyarn]

BMW 440 M-Sport - convertible
2018 -£58,500, 2020 £26,000 (sold)

£32,500/24 months = £1,345 per month

California Ocean
2020 -£68,000, 2025 £ 52,000 (Sold)

£24,000/53 months = £435 per month

Man math

At risk of sounding like a donkey, the difference between 68k and 52k is 16k, so don’t you mean £16000/53 months = 302 per month?

 

[dspuk]

TBH if we did the math for how much it costs us per month vs how much we save vs how much we use it we’d rent and not have bought one.

100% heart over head purchase for us and zero regrets.

 

[Spunyarn]

I bought a 2007 T28 in 2015 for £3900 and sold it in 2018 for £5800.

£1900 difference / 36 months = I made £53 a month to own that thing. I’d say I spent about 25 nights in it in total so I basically got paid £76 a night to sleep in it!

Funny thing is it had about 190k miles on the clock when I bought it and about 210k when I sold it. I just checked the reg online now and it’s still going strong with over 230k miles on its most recent MOT.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

How much does it cost to run a Cali?

I haven't had to replace any rear springs after fitting uprated rear shockers as recommended from chat in the forum. VW wouldn't fit them, even if I supplied them, so had it done by local independent VW specialist. However, they fitted one of the springs upside down. Hey ho! Sachs shock...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Mountainman kept his Berghaus version for more than 10 years and got a total cost of ownership of 61p per mile, not including camping.
So 10 years, 100,000 miles might cost you £61,000 plus campsite fees.
More than that actually, because the future ain’t the past as the old saying goes.

I would leave it at that. If you go down the route of subtracting the cost of staying in hotels, not cooking your own food, not running a second car, you probably could end up with a negative figure but you’d be kidding yourself.

 

[Louis II]

In the last 12 months I’ve had clutch & DMF, 2 tyres, CV joint boot, heated seat, cam belt and just had the egr and cooler replaced only to have the engine warning light come back on the way home from the garage - so mines feeling pretty f#$%ng expensive right now but I am still enjoying it when it’s not in the garage. I think I might get the alloys refurbished just to spend some cash on something I’ll notice

 

[BeeBee]

Wanted one since renting an old hightop, a special birthday treat, six years prior to buying. We bought it when we could afford it, 6 years on and hoping for at least 10.
Definitely a ‘heart over head’ decision, but isn’t it for everyone.
But what you can say is that for an expensive purchase the depreciation is very good indeed.

 

[dspuk]

Just to add a bit of "man" maths at my side. We paid, inc discount, 68K for our fully-ish loaded Ocean. There is one on here similar spec and age for 66K. So for nearly 3 years old it would seem we have only lost 2K. Even if worst case we sold for 60K that's 8K loss in 34 months. Happy with any of those numbers and while we have not made money, it's lost 235 quid a month. We still don't get 235 Quid a month out of it, but we get about 20 - 30 nights away in it a year, so it's cost us, worst case, 2600 a year to stay in it, or 100 quid a night on average. Best case for 66K it's cost us 27 quid a night. All good results in my eyes.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

Just to add a bit of "man" maths at my side. We paid, inc discount, 68K for our fully-ish loaded Ocean. There is one on here similar spec and age for 66K. So for nearly 3 years old it would seem we have only lost 2K. Even if worst case we sold for 60K that's 8K loss in 34 months. Happy with any of those numbers and while we have not made money, it's lost 235 quid a month. We still don't get 235 Quid a month out of it, but we get about 20 - 30 nights away in it a year, so it's cost us, worst case, 2600 a year to stay in it, or 100 quid a night on average. Best case for 66K it's cost us 27 quid a night. All good results in my eyes.

Hmm, no finance costs in that calculation.
I had a look at the finance example for the new T7 e-hybrid and it costs £85,000 cash but £101,000 if you take it on PCP for 5 years at 5.9% interest.
That can be avoided by putting 50% down on HP but there is an opportunity cost in doing that.
Anyway for me depreciation is irrelevant. I don’t like the new one and I can’t afford it so I’ll keep this one until I’m finished with it then pass it on to the next generation.

 

[dspuk]

Hmm, no finance costs in that calculation.
I had a look at the finance example for the new T7 e-hybrid and it costs £85,000 cash but £101,000 if you take it on PCP for 5 years at 5.9% interest.
That can be avoided by putting 50% down on HP but there is an opportunity cost in doing that.
Anyway for me depreciation is irrelevant. I don’t like the new one and I can’t afford it so I’ll keep this one until I’m finished with it then pass it on to the next generation.

There are no finance costs in that because I don't have finance and for the benefits of "man" maths I would not have included TBH.

 

[Boops]

Spending a fortune to save a few pounds on holidays!

 

[Mansfieldman750]

There are no finance costs in that because I don't have finance and for the benefits of "man" maths I would not have included TBH.

Well there you go. That £68,000 you coughed up 3 years ago would have grown to £78,718.50 if you had stuck in a Cash ISA at 5%.
£10,718.50 opportunity cost.

 

[KevH]

‘Saving’ on hotel costs was not even in our thinking when we bought our van; we knew what we wanted, why we wanted it, and we could afford it, so we bought it. End of.
I really don’t get the cost/benefit analysis approach to having a hobby.
Feel free to have a pop at my thinking, you won’t change my mind

 

[Louis II]

Well there you go. That £68,000 you coughed up 3 years ago would have grown to £78,718.50 if you had stuck in a Cash ISA at 5%.
£10,718.50 opportunity cost.

Great point, I really should have thought about that one. Combined with having just booked a campsite for the weekend I now feel immediately better about the repair costs

 

[KevH]

Well there you go. That £68,000 you coughed up 3 years ago would have grown to £78,718.50 if you had stuck in a Cash ISA at 5%.
£10,718.50 opportunity cost.

On my deathbed I won’t be wishing I had invested £68k + 5% rather than, as I have just this week, experienced visiting Rouen, Monet’s house and garden, Mont St.Michel, Bayeux Tapestry and several Normandy beaches and D-Day sites. It’s called living the only life we have.

 

[Mansfieldman750]

On my deathbed I won’t be wishing I had invested £68k + 5% rather than, as I have just this week, experienced visiting Rouen, Monet’s house and garden, Mont St.Michel, Bayeux Tapestry and several Normandy beaches and D-Day sites. It’s called living the only life we have.

I couldn’t agree more. I’ve had about 40 motorbikes and I think I “ got my money back “ on about two of them . Regrets, nah.
Same with beer. When I pass a pub door I do a cost benefit analysis and estimate I will be £30 poorer when I come back out. Then I go in.