Off grid and no solar panel - run engine to charge?

[MelanieW1]

Hi,

I’m camping without hookup for 5 days. I’m staying put and don’t plan to drive around during that time. Is it okay to run the engine intermittently to charge up the leisure batteries to keep the fridge going etc? If so, is it better to run say for 10 mins each day or wait until it goes flat then run engine? Can it do any harm? How long would I need to leave the engine running to charge from flat?

Many thanks,

Melanie

 

[flying banana]

It might last the full 5 days. Depends but it should easily do 3. Charge fully on hook up. At home and chill the fridge down with ice packs or on hook Up before setting off.

 

[MelanieW1]

Okay - thanks for your reply- does hookup charge better than engine - got a long drive before I get there?

 

[flying banana]

Okay - thanks for your reply- does hookup charge better than engine - got a long drive before I get there?

Yes. They reckon engine charges leisures to around 80 % even though it says 100 % on the panel after a drive. Something about the alternator and float charges etc. Run the engine while operating the roof as that uses leisure power. Your fridge and lights won't use much at all. Unplug chargers when. Not used as they still drain batteries. Enjoy. Be interesting to know how you get on

 

[MelanieW1]

Ah that’s very interesting! And I’v just got the time to do it - excellent - will plug in. Thank you!

 

[flying banana]

Have a good one!!!

 

[WelshGas]

Ah that’s very interesting! And I’v just got the time to do it - excellent - will plug in. Thank you!

If the Leisure Battery Voltage drops to 11.5v then the Fridge will automatically switch Off. Lights and 12v sockets will still work. However such a low voltage can cause damage to the Batteries so when you get close to 11.5v run the engine for 30 mins or so and do it during daytime to avoid upsetting the neighbours.

 

[MattBW]

The manual recommends a monthly charge on hookup once a month for 24 hours, it will help get the most from the battery.

Agree with above, ice packs are a good call

 

[flying banana]

If the Leisure Battery Voltage drops to 11.5v then the Fridge will automatically switch Off. Lights and 12v sockets will still work. However such a low voltage can cause damage to the Batteries so when you get close to 11.5v run the engine for 30 mins or so and do it during daytime to avoid upsetting the neighbours.

At 11.5v what % charge shows on the panel? 0?

 

[Loz]

AGM batteries have floor voltage of 10.6v so don’t let them go below that or they won’t recover.

 

[WelshGas]

At 11.5v what % charge shows on the panel? 0?

 

[Hotel California]

Imo running the engine without driving is not a good thing to do .
Not good for the engine , not good for the envirement .
Starting the engine a few times without driving might flatten you engine battery and ending up stranded ...starting the engine takes away lots of power from your starterbattery and it needs running in revs to recharge it.
Use a batterypack to charge cellphones,....
Set the fridge lower at night
Use petzl headlights to read in the evening .
.....
Lots of things you can do to save energy .
Why don't you just drive of to the supermarket or grocery after three days have the Cali for a spin seightseeing and that will charge then back up at least a bit.
5days is dooable with good(young/fresh) batterys but from 3-4y old they start to loose capacity .

 

[willwander]

I’ve run my engine on tick over to charge the leisure batteries a few times, 10-15 mins gives them quite a boost. Maybe not ideal, but not had an issue.

I get 3-4 days on them normally, even with the heater on.

 

[Donald Dub]

“Imo running the engine without driving is not a good thing to do “

I’m curious as to why you think this.

Idling a car doesn’t do any harm whatsoever as the dynamic forces are very low at tickover do engine wear will be negligible. In fact idling an engine at start up for a considerable amount of time is the best thing you can do to preserve engine life, especially in cold conditions. Also, running an engine on tickover uses a tiny amount of fuel as you are only overcoming the internal friction in the engine as opposed to the whole drivetrain combined with drag when the vehicle is in motion. I accidentally left my car running for 12 hours at home once (don’t ask!). The fuel needle was almost on empty at the beginning and I couldn’t see any change when I switched it off 12 hours later.

A Cali will draw around 250 amps from the battery at start up which is huge, but it’s only for 2 or 3 seconds, so very little charge is used. So little in fact that it will take only a few seconds (less than 30 or so) to replenish that charge with from the alternator. Once that is done it can start work on charging the leisure batteries which again will charge much faster than you imagine, even on tickover, as the low state of charge will generate a back emf on the alternator giving a decent current.

 

[Hotel California]

@Donald Dub , i'm no mecanic or technician whatsoever so to me a car is for driving not to start up and try to recharge a battery .
I have been told that starting the engine takes a lot of power out of the starterbattery and i belive so.
If other say diffrent i can belive that also i guess .
I will not try how many times i can start / stop the engine on my Cali before the starterbattery is dead.
We usual not stay longer than two days without driving on a trip and if so i go to a site with 220v plug in .
Imo. camping in a Cali means sober camping anyway , we use very little electric divices .

 

[flying banana]

How many have actually camped for 4 or 5 days and found their leisure batteries allegedly damaged because they're flat? How many have flattened a start battery using the radio. I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on. Vw don't mention it when you buy the sodding van do they?. You'd think it would at least be in the manual that a leisure battery can't be charged if you flatten it? I thought they were designed for deep discharge cycles.?

 

[Hotel California]

How many have actually camped for 4 or 5 days and found their leisure batteries allegedly damaged because they're flat? How many have flattened a start battery using the radio. I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on. Vw don't mention it when you buy the sodding van do they?. You'd think it would at least be in the manual that a leisure battery can't be charged if you flatten it? I thought they were designed for deep discharge cycles.?

I never flattend them (knock on wood) but reading on this forum makes me think some are pretty good in it....

 

[Donald Dub]

@hotel california

‘I will not try how many times i can start / stop the engine on my Cali before the starterbattery is dead’

If you leave the engine running for 30 seconds after you have turned it on each time you could keep going until the diesel runs out!

 

[MattBW]

How many have actually camped for 4 or 5 days and found their leisure batteries allegedly damaged because they're flat? How many have flattened a start battery using the radio. I think there is a lot of scaremongering going on. Vw don't mention it when you buy the sodding van do they?. You'd think it would at least be in the manual that a leisure battery can't be charged if you flatten it? I thought they were designed for deep discharge cycles.?

VW have put auto cut outs in the fridge etc so it should be hard to do but not impossible. The reason they use AGM batteries is in theory you can use more of the capacity than a regular lead acid without damaging them.

You do however occasionally see users here whose battery is dead after a year or 2 because its been ran too low. You wouldnt really know other than shorter and shorter run times.

That's why I think solar is a great addition, always keeping them topped up. Even our little 50w suitcase solar panel we had for the beach would extend our stay time by a couple of days if not moving. The 120w one now keeps us going much longer but as above running the engine or driving is a good injection of amps.

 

[Eber123]

Good afternoon,

In Germany it is against the rules of the road to keep the engine running idle. This happens mainly during the winter. Drivers start the engine before they start to clean the windows. When the windows are clean the car is a bit warmer, the inside of the windows free - never the less it can end in a ticket.

I assume this, in theory, can happen if this is done at a (German) camp site.

As it was pointed out it is not good for the environment and not good for modern engines (so they say). The recommendation is to start the engine and imminently start driving in low revs. This suppose to be the best treatment of modern engines.

I personal try to avoid to keep the engine running idle (maybe the constant advertisement that this is not good for the engine showed some effect with me). I except that the van can cope for a specific amount of time without any support. So I have to plan for this. In my head it is 3 days - after that I need to organize a way to recharge the batteries.

I see it a wee bit like the tank. There are 70 l in it. I need to accept I only get so far before I have to refill it.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[Donald Dub]

Good afternoon,

In Germany it is against the rules of the road to keep the engine running idle. This happens mainly during the winter. Drivers start the engine before they start to clean the windows. When the windows are clean the car is a bit warmer, the inside of the windows free - never the less it can end in a ticket.

I assume this, in theory, can happen if this is done at a (German) camp site.

As it was pointed out it is not good for the environment and not good for modern engines (so they say). The recommendation is to start the engine and imminently start driving in low revs. This suppose to be the best treatment of modern engines.

I personal try to avoid to keep the engine running idle (maybe the constant advertisement that this is not good for the engine showed some effect with me). I except that the van can cope for a specific amount of time without any support. So I have to plan for this. In my head it is 3 days - after that I need to organize a way to recharge the batteries.

I see it a wee bit like the tank. There are 70 l in it. I need to accept I only get so far before I have to refill it.

Regards,
Eberhard

Off the highway, on private land such as a campsite it’s perfectly legal to idle your car. Same in the UK.

 

[kp64zl]

Seems a bit inconsiderate idling a vehicle on a campsite with regards to diesel fumes and their well reported ill effects on air quality and health

 

[soulstyledevon]

Seems a bit inconsiderate idling a vehicle on a campsite with regards to diesel fumes and their well reported ill effects on air quality and health

If the fridge stops working and the batteries are that low. That a sign it’s time to move on. Best off going for a little drive, rather than annoying the rest of the campsite.

 

[Donald Dub]

Seems a bit inconsiderate idling a vehicle on a campsite with regards to diesel fumes and their well reported ill effects on air quality and health

I totally agree and I’ve not said I would be so inconsiderate as to do such a thing so do not misrepresent what I am saying.

What I am saying is it does not harm your vehicle and it is legal to idle on private land in Germany and the UK.

 

[Neil Blackburn]

It might be I considerate and bad for the environment but running the engine does charge the batteries quite well. I do Festival work and sometimes spend a week off grid and have had to run the engine to get the fridge working again. I have bought a portable Dokia solar panel this year so hopefully it won’t be necessary to run the engine in future.