Oil alert

[Poodlehat2222]

Why not send an oil sample off for analysis to check for dilution?
I used to have a BMW Z4M which had a S54 engine from the M3. These are notorious for throwing the engine bearings out of the engine. So, owners would send oil samples off every 6 months and monitor the copper and aluminium content in the oil. On one of the reports it noted that the oil was becoming diluted with fuel and recommended replacing the oil.
I was only about £30 if I remember.

Oil Sample Analysis

Reduce the risk of unscheduled downtime and costly breakdowns for your vehicles or machinery using Millers Oils Oil Sample Analysis.

www.millersoils.co.uk

Gary

Gary

 

[CampervanTime]

You would need a longer dipstick rather than shorter so that less oil is put in.

It might be oil expansion that triggers the warning, but something ie diesel must have increased the volume in the sump as well, otherwise the warning would happen the first time the oil got hot.

It would make sense to mark the dipstick with the level when cold. Checking when hot has too many variables, how hot? too soon after stopping and too much oil is still to drain back to the sump.

Yep, I asked pretty much all of that to the master tech.

He said the standard 'hot' level test is oil temp above 80c, engine off for 5 minutes then check it.

I have taken photos of my dipstick cold/hot/cold now and there is a noticeable rise from approx 1/2 to 2/3 full cold to 'full' when hot.

This tells me that if the van is full on the dipstick when cold, this is likely to trigger the reduce oil level warning when hot.

The master tech also asked the question about why the van didn't do it for the first X miles (prob around 1500-2000) and was told by VW centrally that the engine ECU has a specific learning programme for the start of the engine's life and wouldn't trigger the warning during this period (I think he said it was X number of injector cycles). Then, after that, normal running / sensor operation is working.

Clearly I can't verify this other than by saying that we collected our van from new. Never even checked the oil level, then after about 1200-1500 miles our warning light came on. Since then, it kept coming back on repeatedly until we dropped the oil level to half on the dipstick when cold. It has now been fine through quite a few full heat cycles, and I have seen with my own eyes that the oil level does move quite a bit on the dipstick between cold/hot/cold.

 

[CampervanTime]

Why not send an oil sample off for analysis to check for dilution?
I used to have a BMW Z4M which had a S54 engine from the M3. These are notorious for throwing the engine bearings out of the engine. So, owners would send oil samples off every 6 months and monitor the copper and aluminium content in the oil. On one of the reports it noted that the oil was becoming diluted with fuel and recommended replacing the oil.
I was only about £30 if I remember.

Oil Sample Analysis

Reduce the risk of unscheduled downtime and costly breakdowns for your vehicles or machinery using Millers Oils Oil Sample Analysis.

www.millersoils.co.uk

Gary

Gary

Interesting - I didn't realise it wasn't that expensive to get done. Will have a ponder on this.

 

[Poodlehat2222]

Interesting - I didn't realise it wasn't that expensive to get done. Will have a ponder on this.

Here is my oil report, from the BMW. You can see they have noted a 2% fuel dilution.

 

[CampervanTime]

Very interesting. I must say that I am tempted to get some of ours tested, just to help prove/disprove the theories flying around.

 

[sidepod]

If it is thermal expansion/contraction of some engine components (not oil) then that’s better than contamination. Could be something like the oil filter element expanding?

 

[CampervanTime]

Yes 100% agree. If it's just thermal expansion of something (whatever) causing a temporary rise then I can cope with that for sure.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Morning all,
Surely if the following is correct every van leaving the factory is at risk of a catastrophic engine failure should somebody seriously overfill/underfill it with oil?

The master tech also asked the question about why the van didn't do it for the first X miles (prob around 1500-2000) and was told by VW centrally that the engine ECU has a specific learning programme for the start of the engine's life and wouldn't trigger the warning during this period (I think he said it was X number of injector cycles). Then, after that, normal running / sensor operation is working.

 

[sidepod]

I think the thing to bear in mind is that, despite what many assume, VW are not idiots. They are however fighting with one hand tied behind their backs in trying to cope with stringent emissions targets.

I wonder if the leaking crankshaft oil seal issue is related? Diluted oil bypassing the seals? Oil seals are a trade off between sealing and rotating resistance etc.

 

[CampervanTime]

Or consistently overfilled engines pushing oil past the seals ?

 

[WelshGas]

Don't forget that while the oil volume increases with rising temperature so does the engine volume rise. Oil channels, filters, sump volume, cylinder and piston volume etc. One of the reasons piston/cylinder compression rings are spring loaded, staggered and free to move. If they were fixed they wouldn't work throughout the temperature range. Also the reason engine oils have a viscosity range.
Reading the long thread on the T6 forum there seems to be a number of causes. Some have the alarm activated with no change in oil levels, others with increasing oil levels. 110 and 150 engines more common than 199/204 engines. Yet they are basically the same engine block with extra ancillary equipment etc.

 

[sidepod]

Or consistently overfilled engines pushing oil past the seals ?

Hmmm, this depends on the architecture of the engine. I’d be surprised if static oil levels were sitting above or anywhere near crankshaft centreline? That said, overfilled engines over pressurise the crankcase, in extreme cases literally hydraulic oil up past the rings, with hilarious consequences.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Mine had an oil change service last week so will check the level in the morning too.

OK now checked and the level appears to be about 3/4 up. Apologies for the photo quality - difficult 1 handed and in the wind

 

[clarinetbcn]

why couldn't they just put that in gear and stall it ?

That's what I did when my diesel Golf ran away in Mexicio City in the 1980s. It was only three years old, and when I took it to a VW dealer they installed a special part to stop it, since they had had so many cases. It's too long ago to remember the details of what the part did, some sort of additional hose.

However, that would only work with a manual transmission, maybe the one in the video was an automatic.

 

[Perfectos]

Two photo taken today

photo #1 = cold engine Ambient temp 7.5 degrees C (MFD out side temp)

photo #2 = Warm engine 100 degrees C (MFD oil temp)

Not much Difference! This was the dealer fill after an oil seal was replaced (within warranty)

edit : if I count the dimples on the dipstick from the Max mark back to to oil line I make
photo#1 = 12
Photo 2 = 9

not the clearest of pictures in photo 1 and it’s not the easiest line to read due to the oil being new

 

[Checker]

Will explains the situation really well in his latest YT offering.

Will explains the situation really well in his latest YT offering.

I am not entirely convinced that the increased oil level is due to diesel from DPF as described in the film clip. On newer diesel engines, the diesel injector is located outside the engine and should therefore not be able to contaminate or raise the oil level in the engine.

 

[sidepod]

So in a nut shell, drive the van hard and decent distance. Stop short trips.

The last diesel I had with a dpf I drove as fast as I could get away with 250miles twice a week. In the four years I owned it, I only ever saw it regen once.

Great vid. Well presented/researched.

 

[sidepod]

Sadly, dicking with the oil level just isn’t something 99% of owners will do, most struggle to plug in the hook up.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I am not entirely convinced that the increased oil level is due to diesel from DPF as described in the film clip. On newer diesel engines, the diesel injector is located outside the engine and should therefore not be able to contaminate or raise the oil level in the engine.

Do we know if the newer VW engines have the separate injector he talks about or whether they still inject diesel on an exhaust stroke?

 

[sidepod]

Do we know if the newer VW engines have the separate injector he talks about or whether they still inject diesel on an exhaust stroke?

I was wondering the same. Should be fairly easy to spot with a quick look underneath?

 

[sidepod]

I’d guess not if VW are rolling out a software fix.

 

[Perfectos]

What I don’t understand is that the T6 doesn’t seem to suffer with these issues, what has changed from T6 to T6.1 to allow this scenario to creep into the equation?

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

What I don’t understand is that the T6 doesn’t seem to suffer with these issues, what has changed from T6 to T6.1 to allow this scenario to creep into the equation?

Also need to understand how wide spread it is across the user base @Perfectos? Not affected me yet.

 

[andyinluton]

What I don’t understand is that the T6 doesn’t seem to suffer with these issues, what has changed from T6 to T6.1 to allow this scenario to creep into the equation?

1. Different design in dipstick ? and who ever is doing the PDI doesn't understand the markings so tops it up.
2. Did the T6 have an oil overfull sensor?

If its 1. it would be interesting to see if there is a pattern with vans from the same dealer delivered at the same time having the same problem.

If the suggestions above about the sensor effectively being turned off for the first 1500 miles are correct, it would suggest that at sometime in the first 1500 miles someone has added oil, probably with a cold engine.

I would be interested to see how many of those with the problem have had it occur at sometime other than the first time the engine got hot after 1500 miles or just after a service.

Im guessing the software fix will be to just turn the sensor off.

 

[Perfectos]

I’ve not had occasion to physically see the alert, but apparently T6 does have a sensor

https://www.t6forum.com/threads/‘oil-level-too-high’-warning.29519/#post-402972