Old and New

[John Stevenson]

As an expectant T6 Cali owner (early April) I saw an old T25 yesterday parked up in Hampstead High Street and there was a family getting their lunch from a Deli before driving off. I got a pang of excitement as to what is coming. It was in excellent condition and I resisted the urge to go and talk to him but I did wonder what camaraderie the was between VW camper owners old and new? He was certainly getting more admiring glances than I imagine we will in the T6. As much as I love the look of the classic camper we played it safe and went for the new version for all the obvious reasons (latest equipment, warranty etc). Did anyone else have this quandary before wanting to join the 'club'?

 

[teeboy]

I think a common chain of events is:

1 - I want a camper van
2 - I will get a classic camper
3 - Blimey those classic campers are expensive/slow/unreliable/have crap brakes/crap steering
4 - I will make my own camper from a modern van
5 - Making a camper is quite hard, and more expensive than I though
6 - I will get one of those already converted campers
7 - Blimey when you add a sensible spec to a converted camper it is 40 to 50k
8 - Sod it I will get a Cali - they come with a warranty and a massive spec

Small deviations from this path will happen

 

[Lockey]

I would love an old splitty but they are terrible to drive after driving modern vehicles. The constant war against rust also puts me off.
If I had a spare £20k I would buy one just to tinker with and use for the odd short trip.
In my Mind they are the coolest VW ever!

 

[2into1]

You'll find the camaraderie between owners of early / late vans varies hugely. The reasons why would require a thesis. Just accept that some folk are 'up themselves' for different reasons, approach / chat with whoever you fancy, and move on when you find an idiot.
The only people who are perfect are owners of hightops, as we are social outcasts and grateful to talk to anyone

 

[Hotel California]

You'll find the camaraderie between owners of early / late vans varies hugely. The reasons why would require a thesis. Just accept that some folk are 'up themselves' for different reasons, approach / chat with whoever you fancy, and move on when you find an idiot.
The only people who are perfect are owners of hightops, as we are social outcasts and grateful to talk to anyone

Hmmm...seems i need to swap verhicle....

 

[Borris]

As an expectant T6 Cali owner (early April) I saw an old T25 yesterday parked up in Hampstead High Street and there was a family getting their lunch from a Deli before driving off. I got a pang of excitement as to what is coming. It was in excellent condition and I resisted the urge to go and talk to him but I did wonder what camaraderie the was between VW camper owners old and new? He was certainly getting more admiring glances than I imagine we will in the T6. As much as I love the look of the classic camper we played it safe and went for the new version for all the obvious reasons (latest equipment, warranty etc). Did anyone else have this quandary before wanting to join the 'club'?

Well yes and no.
When we started looking for our Cali we were primarily looking for a seven seater people carrier to cart our grandchildren around in and which we were also able to comfortably sleep in.

So yes we did look at all possible options. Accordingly we briefly looked at the classic split screen camper. It seemed to be a great way of putting our cash in a very safe place whilst also having a great time. However this option was swiftly booted into the long grass on the following grounds:
1. These vehicles were designed in the 1950s and have crash protection and safety features to match. For our main intended use as a grandchildren fun bus, for us at least, a split screen was a total non starter.
2. Whilst talking of non starters, the days when I saw a breakdown as a challenge have long since gone. These early vehicles may be romantic, pretty and highly prized but I also understand that they are often not that reliable.
3. No heater. This may be fine for the younger, hardier, outdoorsy, adventurer types but we have reached that time of life when a good heater and some Earl Grey are essential.

So after a very brief look it was a resounding NO.
Give us the up to date safety measures, the power, the smoothness, the reliabilty, the lack of rust, the extended manufacturers warranty, the pre-paid service plan, the VW breakdown recovery service, the anonymity, and that gorgeous heater.

 

[CaliAdventure]

.we have reached that time of life when a good heater and some Earl Grey are essential.

I'm just hanging onto my thirties, husband is in his mid forties and we LOVE our Cali heater along with a mug of Earl Grey...definite essentials.

CJ

 

[John Stevenson]

Well yes and no.
When we started looking for our Cali we were primarily looking for a seven seater people carrier to cart our grandchildren around in and which we were also able to comfortably sleep in.

So yes we did look at all possible options. Accordingly we briefly looked at the classic split screen camper. It seemed to be a great way of putting our cash in a very safe place whilst also having a great time. However this option was swiftly booted into the long grass on the following grounds:
1. These vehicles were designed in the 1950s and have crash protection and safety features to match. For our main intended use as a grandchildren fun bus, for us at least, a split screen was a total non starter.
2. Whilst talking of non starters, the days when I saw a breakdown as a challenge have long since gone. These early vehicles may be romantic, pretty and highly prized but I also understand that they are often not that reliable.
3. No heater. This may be fine for the younger, hardier, outdoorsy, adventurer types but we have reached that time of life when a good heater and some Earl Grey are essential.

So after a very brief look it was a resounding NO.
Give us the up to date safety measures, the power, the smoothness, the reliabilty, the lack of rust, the extended manufacturers warranty, the pre-paid service plan, the VW breakdown recovery service, the anonymity, and that gorgeous heater.

Amen to that!

 

[John Stevenson]

I'm just hanging onto my thirties, husband is in his mid forties and we LOVE our Cali heater along with a mug of Earl Grey...definite essentials.

CJ

When I was in my 20s this would have sounded boring. But mid forties. Heater and coffee in the morning essential.

 

[MattBW]

My journey was:
1) I really want a camper
2) Oooh splits and bays are a lot of money
3) I'll get a T25 they are more affordable, newer, from my childhood and "more" modern
4) Spend lots of money doing it up, break down a few times, realise I could have bought a bay anyway wit what I have spent.
5) Realise with old vans needs regular maintenance, welding and paintwork to keep them looking nice.
6) Spot cali, dawning realisation I'm spending similar monthly amount on my old van anyway. Go for it!

I have a T25 (we have two in fact) and love it, its wonderful and nostalgic to drive and has a slow chilled out pace and feel that my T5.1 doesn't have. I get approached in it all the time, and have people talking about one they owned 30 years ago, or how much they would love one. That doesn't really happen with my new one (or hasn't yet). I always explain the reality of an old camper, the ongoing costs of keeping an old vehicle running are pretty high.

From my time on the T25 scene (and VW) I found most are very down to earth and appreciate all models.There is the occasional muppet who feels the need to diss Cali's or anything thats considered expensive but thats usually just because of the cost of them that in their eyes is crazy. I always write that off as jealousy and ignore it.

 

[MattBW]

The only people who are perfect are owners of hightops, as we are social outcasts and grateful to talk to anyone

Hahaha but so much more storage and room they make better campers.

 

[Carrot]

I would love love love a T25, but I'm useless with anything mechanical and they don't have 3 point seat belts for the kids' car seats. Maybe one day...

The people I've met on campsites so far all seem pretty chilled and friendly.

 

[Gavinskii]

My journey was, fall in love with a split.
Impetuously buy 3 from America (from 3 different sellers) all unseen and ship them to UK (with the intention of selling 2 and keeping 1 out of the proceeds).
During the months of heartache waiting for them to make it to the container ship and then make the long passage over the pond, I realised that what I really really wanted was a much rarer VW Splitscreen conversion by Westfalia called a Flipseat (SO34).
So I eventually found one of these, and had it restored over a period of several years. Whilst having the resto done I owned several other splttys and enjoyed trips to some of the classic Euro shows (Hessich, Bad Camberg etc.) also did quite a few UK trips with the kids.

My wife was always concerned about lack of safety in these old busses and started to become less keen on allowing the kids to come on adventures and with the prices of these things going through the roof. I sold my last one back in 2011.

I then bought my first T4 Westfalia California ( a slow but bullet proof 2.4D), then upgraded this to later faster 2.5 TDI Westfalia California.

Last year I bought my first T5 California and have used it for numerous weekends away + a skiing trip over Christmas. I love the solid dependability of the build and engine, coupled with the excellent cruising speed / economy & home comforts of the night heater and kitchen.

I had great fun in the air-cooled bus scene for almost 8 years and I love looking at some of the great classic buses out there, but I wouldn't / couldn't go back to living with an old bus again.

 

[Yorkdubshire]

My journey was:
1) I really want a camper
2) Oooh splits and bays are a lot of money
3) I'll get a T25 they are more affordable, newer, from my childhood and "more" modern
4) Spend lots of money doing it up, break down a few times, realise I could have bought a bay anyway wit what I have spent.
5) Realise with old vans needs regular maintenance, welding and paintwork to keep them looking nice.
6) Spot cali, dawning realisation I'm spending similar monthly amount on my old van anyway. Go for it!

I have a T25 (we have two in fact) and love it, its wonderful and nostalgic to drive and has a slow chilled out pace and feel that my T5.1 doesn't have. I get approached in it all the time, and have people talking about one they owned 30 years ago, or how much they would love one. That doesn't really happen with my new one (or hasn't yet). I always explain the reality of an old camper, the ongoing costs of keeping an old vehicle running are pretty high.

From my time on the T25 scene (and VW) I found most are very down to earth and appreciate all models.There is the occasional muppet who feels the need to diss Cali's or anything thats considered expensive but thats usually just because of the cost of them that in their eyes is crazy. I always write that off as jealousy and ignore it.

Got a wave from a white t5 combi yesterday morning at 06.15 in Wakefield, certainly didn't expect that and didn't manage to wave back. As you say if you a VW fan (like myself) I can appreciate anything VW.

 

[John Stevenson]

My journey was, fall in love with a split.
Impetuously buy 3 from America (from 3 different sellers) all unseen and ship them to UK (with the intention of selling 2 and keeping 1 out of the proceeds).
During the months of heartache waiting for them to make it to the container ship and then make the long passage over the pond, I realised that what I really really wanted was a much rarer VW Splitscreen conversion by Westfalia called a Flipseat (SO34).
So I eventually found one of these, and had it restored over a period of several years. Whilst having the resto done I owned several other splttys and enjoyed trips to some of the classic Euro shows (Hessich, Bad Camberg etc.) also did quite a few UK trips with the kids.

My wife was always concerned about lack of safety in these old busses and started to become less keen on allowing the kids to come on adventures and with the prices of these things going through the roof. I sold my last one back in 2011.

I then bought my first T4 Westfalia California ( a slow but bullet proof 2.4D), then upgraded this to later faster 2.5 TDI Westfalia California.

Last year I bought my first T5 California and have used it for numerous weekends away + a skiing trip over Christmas. I love the solid dependability of the build and engine, coupled with the excellent cruising speed / economy & home comforts of the night heater and kitchen.

I had great fun in the air-cooled bus scene for almost 8 years and I love looking at some of the great classic buses out there, but I wouldn't / couldn't go back to living with an old bus again.

Great reply. We are so looking forward to getting ours.How was the skiing trip? Warm enough?

 

[Aidy P]

I've had a bay window T2 for several years. We did a big family road trip holiday from Yorkshire down to the South coast and Devon and Cornwall last year. After a near crash on a dual carriageway where my life flashed before me, I came home and started researching buying a California. The bay is cute, fun and cool. I'm 43 this year and would rather have safe, comfortable, reliable and quick. My family is too important to be driving any distance in something with 1960's safety features i.e. 'Seat belts' only. It's like losing an old dog and getting a bouncy puppy. Fond memories but it was the right time and the right decision. Already we have trips planned that we wouldn't have contemplated in the bay.

 

[TwoDogs]

On our very first trip in our Cali we got a wave from a pair of splitties as we passed....and they waved first! I was pleasantly surprised!
We had an ex-Dutch army conversion when we were in our early 20s, and while it was great fun and v cool when it worked, the memories of numerous big breakdowns made me realize v quickly that I wouldn't want another for anything other than little day trips. I can still summon up that "is Gershwin going to start/keep going/stop in time/steer round this corner(!)" anxiety just thinking about it.......

 

[Borris]

I've had a bay window T2 for several years. We did a big family road trip holiday from Yorkshire down to the South coast and Devon and Cornwall last year. After a near crash on a dual carriageway where my life flashed before me, I came home and started researching buying a California. The bay is cute, fun and cool. I'm 43 this year and would rather have safe, comfortable, reliable and quick. My family is too important to be driving any distance in something with 1960's safety features i.e. 'Seat belts' only. It's like losing an old dog and getting a bouncy puppy. Fond memories but it was the right time and the right decision. Already we have trips planned that we wouldn't have contemplated in the bay.

I completely agree. The early VW campers are lovely and I don't want to put people off owning one if that is what they want but the harsh fact of the matter is that you are the crumple zone in one of those. After having spent thirty years in the fire service I am accutely aware of the worth of good vehicle safety design. As a result, one of the first things that I always look at before buying any vehicle are the Ncap crash test videos for that model on Youtube. There are also some crash test videos on Youtube for some earlier models and some of the results are chilling.

 

[TwentyOneThirtyFive]

Wanted a T3, either a late Wesfalia Joker or Atlantic.

The Mrs said they'd be too unreliable, so we got a T4. Which has been a paragon of reliability On the plus side, it can be fixed with a hammer.

Plan was to keep if for a year and if we liked it, buy a newer one. Four and a half years later, still have the experiment The van does everything we want and new vans just leave me cold.

Still want a T3 though. Although I keep getting seduced by old Troopies

 

[Aidy P]

Old(ish) Brazilian T2 and new OceanT6

 

[caligraphy]

I got hooked with a '69 Commer Camper Van. Loved it but it was horribly unreliable and in the end I scrapped it for bits and sold off the pop top etc to a friend who customised a Toyota mini bus. On a whim I bought a T2 for £300 with a stuffed automatic box from some surfie on Sydney's Northern Beaches. I jammed it into park by accident as I drove it home in low gear and voila, that fixed the problem. What luck ! Apparently that's the trick to un-jam the old Borg-Warner auto boxes. It was fun but so slow I could get out and jog up hills faster. I sold it to a back-packer for £600 and he tried to drive it to Melbourne from Sydney. It made it as far as a VW garage. In Belgium I bought a 3 yr old LHD T4 Cali and it was probably the most reliable thing I've ever owned. I sold it 180,000 km later for not much less than I paid for it. I used that money and a bit more to buy a 3yr old T5 Cali for half the new price. It's pretty much the same camper design as the T4 (as is the T6) as VW didn't change the Westfalia California design (except for the silly electric roof). It has oodles of grunt from the big 2.5 Tdi, running costs are cheap, economy is excellent and I've suffered just a few thousand depreciation in the 6 years I've owned it.

To be frank, I can't understand why anyone would buy a new camper. IMO, the T6 is a T5 with a Golf engine. 2nd hand is always best value.

 

[MattBW]

I bought new for many reasons, warranty, knowing its history and treatment, effectively trouble free worry free travel in Europe. It's my first ever new vehicle, before which I always bought ones 2 or 3 years old because I felt it was better value.

My T25 has broken down too many times to risk taking across the channel (even with a brand new recon engine Im still not confident in it) and I couldn't risk that for europe, i need to trust my van to get me home or not strand me with a scary bill because euro breakdown cover won't deem is valuable enough to ship home. Buying new gave me that confidence.

.

 

[John Stevenson]

I got hooked with a '69 Commer Camper Van. Loved it but it was horribly unreliable and in the end I scrapped it for bits and sold off the pop top etc to a friend who customised a Toyota mini bus. On a whim I bought a T2 for £300 with a stuffed automatic box from some surfie on Sydney's Northern Beaches. I jammed it into park by accident as I drove it home in low gear and voila, that fixed the problem. What luck ! Apparently that's the trick to un-jam the old Borg-Warner auto boxes. It was fun but so slow I could get out and jog up hills faster. I sold it to a back-packer for £600 and he tried to drive it to Melbourne from Sydney. It made it as far as a VW garage. In Belgium I bought a 3 yr old LHD T4 Cali and it was probably the most reliable thing I've ever owned. I sold it 180,000 km later for not much less than I paid for it. I used that money and a bit more to buy a 3yr old T5 Cali for half the new price. It's pretty much the same camper design as the T4 (as is the T6) as VW didn't change the Westfalia California design (except for the silly electric roof). It has oodles of grunt from the big 2.5 Tdi, running costs are cheap, economy is excellent and I've suffered just a few thousand depreciation in the 6 years I've owned it.

To be frank, I can't understand why anyone would buy a new camper. IMO, the T6 is a T5 with a Golf engine. 2nd hand is always best value.

Great story. I'm buying new because I want the mod cons, the reliability and because I am a big wuss. ;-)

 

[caligraphy]

My experience has been that most problems appear in the first few years of a new car. The 2.5 T4 was probably the most reliable VW.

2nd hand with an extended warranty would be a sound bet. Teething problems sorted and peace of mind plus someone else has paid for the huge depreciation the minute it rolls out of the showroom. Still, each to their own ....