P & O Concessionary Units

[Amarillo]

Last year I was fortunate enough to be gifted 600 Concessionary Units is P&O Ferries Ltd. This gives the unit holder 50% discount on the Dover To Calais Route and 25% discount on other routes such as the one to Ireland.

Today I booked our half term holiday. First I checked the website for the crossing times: the price for a return trip came to £200. I then phoned the special phone number to book our passage, and after various menu choices got through to a human, and was promptly cut off. Soon after my phone bleeped a message: I had reached my pre-set £2.50 limit for premium numbers! My phone soon rang again and it was P&O returning my call. We went through all the details, and the half price cost came to £199 - £1 cheaper than the website price. The reason is that the discounted price only applied to the fully flexible and refundable ticket. If I count the £2.50 cost of the phone call, this comes out £1.50 more expensive than the website price for a standard non-flexible ticket. I booked it anyway.

 

[Borris]

Last year I was fortunate enough to be gifted 600 Concessionary Units is P&O Ferries Ltd. This gives the unit holder 50% discount on the Dover To Calais Route and 25% discount on other routes such as the one to Ireland.

Today I booked our half term holiday. First I checked the website for the crossing times: the price for a return trip came to £200. I then phoned the special phone number to book our passage, and after various menu choices got through to a human, and was promptly cut off. Soon after my phone bleeped a message: I had reached my pre-set £2.50 limit for premium numbers! My phone soon rang again and it was P&O returning my call. We went through all the details, and the half price cost came to £199 - £1 cheaper than the website price. The reason is that the discounted price only applied to the fully flexible and refundable ticket. If I count the £2.50 cost of the phone call, this comes out £1.50 more expensive than the website price for a standard non-flexible ticket. I booked it anyway.

After the way they treated their staff recently, I won't travel anywhere with P&O ever again, even if their tickets were free. Vile company.

 

[Amarillo]

After the way they treated their staff recently, I won't travel anywhere with P&O ever again, even if their tickets were free. Vile company.

Would a boycott harm P&O shareholders (such as me) more or less than P&O employees?

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Would a boycott harm P&O shareholders (such as me) more or less than P&O employees?

The foreign crew will just find work elsewhere. Many will only have only have basic training, low salaries / minimal employment rights.

Most situations are made worse at Sea by crew not following emergency procedures correctly. In a disaster most nationalities panic and revert to their native tongue so communication breaks down fairly quickly especially when dealing with a large number of passengers.

Wouldn’t travel with P&O, would rather pay more and use a company that employs experienced well trained crew.

 

[dspuk]

TBF to P&O that pricing structure is not unique. We just did the same with pre-booked Legoland tickets. My forces discount card gets me 15% discount on the full price tickets but I can buy the advance tickets at 50% off the face value direct on the website.

 

[Borris]

Would a boycott harm P&O shareholders (such as me) more or less than P&O employees?

As a share holder, you clearly share the responsibility for P&O's decision to sack hundreds of loyal employees on the spot without notice, only to replace them with agency staff. Apparently, an unlawful action that P&O will not be prosecuted for. By retaining shares you clearly condone such a practice.

 

[Amarillo]

As a share holder, you clearly share the responsibility for P&O's decision to sack hundreds of loyal employees on the spot without notice, only to replace them with agency staff. Apparently, an unlawful action that P&O will not be prosecuted for. By retaining shares you clearly condone such a practice.

Not quite true, my father transferred the shares to me *after* P&O's decision to sack hundreds of employees. I'm unsure how that affects my moral responsibility to hold or dispose of the shares now, but as I was not a shareholder at the time of the sackings, I cannot be held even partly responsible for that unlawful action.

My father did as you suggest he should by disposing of his shares (at a 100% loss) soon after that unlawful action by P&O ferries.

 

[Borris]

But you have kept them.

 

[Amarillo]

But you have kept them.

Yes.

Does a VW shareholder now have a moral responsibility for VW's use of slave labour during WWII? If so, would they absolve themselves of that responsibility by disposing of their shares?

What about someone who supports VW now by buying their vehicles?

I am not sure that I know the answer, but my gut feeling is that responsibility lies with shareholders at the time of the wrong doing (both P&O and VW), not with subsequent shareholders.

Some heavy reading on VW's darker side.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/presence/konzern/documents/history/englisch/Katalog_Erinnerungsst%C3%A4tte_EN.pdf

P&O got away with firing their staff because unfair dismissal is a civil matter, and the compensation paid to dismissed workers was greater than that they would have received from civil courts.

VW's factory doctor in charge, Dr. Hans Körbel, was sentenced to death by a British military court and executed on March 7th, 1947.

 

[Damon18]

We bought our P&O shares in the early 80's, and always used P&O for annual return trips to and from the UK. The shares became Concessionary Shares at some point and we benefited from the fare reductions that came with them.
After P&O's treatment of their staff we switched to Eurotunnel and won't we going back to P&O.
Obviously a personal choice.

 

[Georgeo]

Yes.

Does a VW shareholder now have a moral responsibility for VW's use of slave labour during WWII? If so, would they absolve themselves of that responsibility by disposing of their shares?

What about someone who supports VW now by buying their vehicles?

I am not sure that I know the answer, but my gut feeling is that responsibility lies with shareholders at the time of the wrong doing (both P&O and VW), not with subsequent shareholders.

Some heavy reading on VW's darker side.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/presence/konzern/documents/history/englisch/Katalog_Erinnerungsst%C3%A4tte_EN.pdf

P&O got away with firing their staff because unfair dismissal is a civil matter, and the compensation paid to dismissed workers was greater than that they would have received from civil courts.

VW's factory doctor in charge, Dr. Hans Körbel, was sentenced to death by a British military court and executed on March 7th, 1947.

This is not the same, the current management staff at P&O are mainly the same and the controlling interests remain in place. But if you feel it’s ok to profit from this kind of behaviour no one can stop you.

 

[Rich20]

TBF to P&O that pricing structure is not unique. We just did the same with pre-booked Legoland tickets. My forces discount card gets me 15% discount on the full price tickets but I can buy the advance tickets at 50% off the face value direct on the website.

I’m a bit cynical but I sometimes think these “special” discounts are a marketing ploy to make these companies look good in that they are giving something back to service personnel and blue light crew

 

[Amarillo]

This is not the same, the current management staff at P&O are mainly the same and the controlling interests remain in place. But if you feel it’s ok to profit from this kind of behaviour no one can stop you.

Of course it is not the same: but it is comparable.

I can see a significant difference with P&O’s management still being in place. But other than the late Dr. Körbel, I don’t know what fate befell VW’s wartime management. Besides, I have some (very limited) influence over the fate of P&O’s management as a shareholder, but would have no influence if I disposed of my shares. And if I did dispose of my shares, someone else would simply profit from them.

 

[Amarillo]

I’m a bit cynical but I sometimes think these “special” discounts are a marketing ploy to make these companies look good in that they are giving something back to service personnel and blue light crew

I think you are probably right.

 

[WelshGas]

Yes.

Does a VW shareholder now have a moral responsibility for VW's use of slave labour during WWII? If so, would they absolve themselves of that responsibility by disposing of their shares?

What about someone who supports VW now by buying their vehicles?

I am not sure that I know the answer, but my gut feeling is that responsibility lies with shareholders at the time of the wrong doing (both P&O and VW), not with subsequent shareholders.

Some heavy reading on VW's darker side.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/presence/konzern/documents/history/englisch/Katalog_Erinnerungsst%C3%A4tte_EN.pdf

P&O got away with firing their staff because unfair dismissal is a civil matter, and the compensation paid to dismissed workers was greater than that they would have received from civil courts.

VW's factory doctor in charge, Dr. Hans Körbel, was sentenced to death by a British military court and executed on March 7th, 1947.

So what are your feelings regarding the present debate regarding Slavery. Should modern generations be held accountable and pay reparation to the slaves descendants ?

 

[Amarillo]

So what are your feelings regarding the present debate regarding Slavery. Should modern generations be held accountable and pay reparation to the slaves descendants ?

I'm not sure I know the answer to that either. Certainly there is a lot of wealth and with it privilege, especially around Liverpool and Bristol, from the slave trade, with some annuities from compensation payments to British slavers and their descendants lasting until 2015.

 

[The Tall Luthier]

So what are your feelings regarding the present debate regarding Slavery. Should modern generations be held accountable and pay reparation to the slaves descendants ?

About five years ago we finally stopped paying reparations for compensating slave owners.

Imagine that, working class men and women paying for the landed gentry, through taxation all their lives, to receive compensation for them once owning people!!!

I don’t know the answer to your question, it’s complicated, but I do think it sounds less stupid than what we have been doing for two hundred years.

We do know that the life, economic and health prospects of descendants of the Windrush generation are markedly different from white Europeans. Perhaps we could say sorry by doing more for them. Maybe pay for a Met police force that wasn’t institutionally racist for example.

 

[Amarillo]

About five years ago we finally stopped paying reparations for compensating slave owners.

2015 it stopped.

Just imagine... the descendants of the enslaved paying, through their taxes, for their whole lives, the descendants of their ancestors' slavers.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

The big problem is, where does reparation stop? For example, I understand that Barbados is currently seeking reparations from the UK. But the original inhabitants were the Arawaks. Not sure if any Arawaks still exist but if so, should they also seek reparations?

‘The peaceful Arawaks of Barbados were either killed by the Caribs or fled to neighbouring islands. The Caribs inhabited Barbados until the Spanish invaded in 1492, after the Spanish captured the Caribs and transported them to Spain.’

 

[andyinluton]

The big problem is, where does reparation stop? For example, I understand that Barbados is currently seeking reparations from the UK. But the original inhabitants were the Arawaks. Not sure if any Arawaks still exist but if so, should they also seek reparations?

‘The peaceful Arawaks of Barbados were either killed by the Caribs or fled to neighbouring islands. The Caribs inhabited Barbados until the Spanish invaded in 1492, after the Spanish captured the Caribs and transported them to Spain.’

Similar problem on the family farm in South Africa, But how far back do you go?

Compulsory land purchase of some areas to actually give the land back to the original tribes, suggestion is that it goes to the Zulus ( thats fine, there's been Zulu blood in the family line since the 1850s & we qualify as descendants of that tribe!) But the Zulus displaced the San & Xhosa people in the Bantu Migration, so should the Zulus then give the land back to those tribes?

 

[Amarillo]

The big problem is, where does reparation stop? For example, I understand that Barbados is currently seeking reparations from the UK. But the original inhabitants were the Arawaks. Not sure if any Arawaks still exist but if so, should they also seek reparations?

‘The peaceful Arawaks of Barbados were either killed by the Caribs or fled to neighbouring islands. The Caribs inhabited Barbados until the Spanish invaded in 1492, after the Spanish captured the Caribs and transported them to Spain.’

Compensation to slavers (for the freeing of their slaves) went, on as detailed above, for 178 years.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Coming from a long line of peasants, I need to focus on my family tree to see if i’m due some cash.

In England, the end of serfdom began with the Peasants' Revolt in 1381. It had largely died out in England by 1500 as a personal status and was fully ended when Elizabeth I freed the last remaining serfs in 1574.

 

[andyinluton]

Coming from a long line of peasants, I need to focus on my family tree to see if i’m due some cash.

I was thinking of going after the Italians, I'm sure my lot were done over by the Romans.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Approx 20 percent of Australias population is descended from UK convicts.

How do we compensate the local aboriginal population adequately for introducing the Fosters drinking crowd into the country?

 

[WelshGas]

I wonder how the living standards of the “ slave “ descendants compare with the descendants of their original “ tribes “ in Africa who were not sold into slavery by their own tribal chiefs, as in Nigeria?