Question - Insulation.

[WelshGas]

The California does not have any Insulation behind the internal body panels or furniture, just Sound Deadening material.

Most, if not All conversions have sound deadening matting, insulation material in the form of Rockwool and other materials and then a carpet covered plywood panel.

Why the difference?

On some of the other VW forums that also relate to Conversions, the comments relating to insulation, type to use, amount or even why insulate can be extremely critical . It is not as if the owners of these conversions don’t also fit diesel/gas parking heaters as well. But it would seem many more California owners use their vehicles in much more extreme conditions of heat and cold and manage perfectly well without all this insulation. Are we a hardier breed and they’re wimps? They must suffer from condensation, but at least with a California all the internal panels have the opportunity to dry out quickly.
Why do they persist in this “ Mantra “ regarding insulation?

 

[California4x4]

I agree. You’ve opened a debate that would normally get people’s opinions flowing more quickly than a religion vs science debate in any non-California forum. However here, maybe not so much. I’ve built a Campervan in the USA designed for varying conditions. I did a lot of research and there are so many opinions, it becomes more confusing rather than less. I fitted insulation as well as forced air ventilation for hot weather and a heater for cold.

I find the California gets hotter more quickly in hot conditions if parked up without ventilation.

I also find, even when using the heater in the California, consistent temperatures below -6 the water tank freezes. I don’t think this would happen in an insulated van with internal water storage and heater until much lower temperatures were experienced.

I find it an odd sensation in very cold conditions, the warm air escapes so quickly in the California, there are almost breezes that develop.

I think the decision made by VW will simply be a longevity and anti-corrosion issue. The fact that condensation and dampness cannot persist in or trapped behind insulation and vapour barriers is sensible I think.

 

[Hotel California]

Wouldn'd insulation mean loss of inner space ...each side some cm .
And adding extra weight .

Two things that are allready close to the limit in a Cali.

I' ve always thought isolation would build up moist , or you would have to seal it of from the inner air .

 

[willwander]

I’ve thought about it. Always a cold draft from the cupboard.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Like houses, I’m sure vans need to breathe
A build up of moisture is inevitable. But trapping it, has to be the worst thing possible.

Airflow will dry out and disperse moisture and bad smells too.
Possibly Volkswagen realise this.

Funnily, I’m in my van this weekend. A friend of mine in his converted is in a static caravan and won’t venture into the van until end of May...???

 

[ArunAlec]

When I moved into my house, a double glazed bungalow I used to have problems with damp and mould caused by condensation and lack of ventilation. The solution was a slow and constant running fan unit which draws air from the loft and pushes it down into the house. The theory being that the air in the loft is relatively dry, having been heated by the rooms below. This dry air displaces the damper air in the house and the condensation is reduced. 20 years on and it’s still working.

 

[Wongo]

Fresh air not fug. Trapping damp air leads to issues in a van or at home, yes the heater will have to work harder but it makes sense to me.

 

[sidepod]

Bollox. Something I now need to ponder. Can’t say I’ve ever felt cold/draft. Usually well installed by alcohol.

 

[Jay20cali]

We had a westfalia coloumbus
The level of insulation it that van was amazing it was every where also the van temperature was a constant cool in the French heat and warm in the winter in the French alps,when using the California in the same conditions I did notice how the temperatures changed massively.the California even froze the inside panels in the gas cupboard area.i think the reason the California isn’t insulated is cost cutting?? Why would they if they never have????
They use lots in the cab area to drown out the engines noise.no moisture issues there
Types like dynomat don’t harbour moisture and regulate sound and temperatures.this is a common insulation used on the other forums.
I think companies like westfalia must know the benefits of insulation and winterise there vans otherwise why would the waste time and money doing it???
It would be more time and money for vw to do this and this would in turn hit the customers vw wouldn’t absorb it.

 

[Velma's Dad]

It would be more time and money for vw to do this and this would in turn hit the customers vw wouldn’t absorb it.

I think that's more than likely the answer. It's the same with selling new houses: buyers are notoriously uninterested in energy efficiency (they can't see the U-values when they walk round on a viewing) but the housebuilders know they'll be drooling about granite worktops and wet-rooms with power showers. So guess what the housebuilders spend their build budgets on.

Same with campervans... I bet the ratio of forum threads about blingy wheels to the ones about insulation levels is maybe... 50 to 1?

 

[Velma's Dad]

The California does not have any Insulation behind the internal body panels or furniture, just Sound Deadening material.

I've never delved behind the panels in our Cali but if there is some sound-deadening material then it will offer some degree of thermal insulation as well. Rockwool is a pretty decent thermal insulator, although I'm guessing the matting thickness in a Cali is pretty thin?

 

[westfalia]

My guess is that the sound-deadening material would be too heavy and
having insulation would mean also having a vapour barrier which would
have to be 100 % sealed or it would fail and then the insulation would get
wet due to extra condensation.

I don't have any issues with my van.

 

[WelshGas]

My guess is that the sound-deadening material would be too heavy and
having insulation would mean also having a vapour barrier which would
have to be 100 % sealed or it would fail and then the insulation would get
wet due to extra condensation.

I don't have any issues with my van.

Likewise.
I just wondered why the VW Conversion fraternity were so adamant that Insulation is a must.

 

[Perfectos]

Got to justify the price of a conversion somewhere, seriously the lack of air flow will create condensation and wet that cannot dissipate, the conversion fraternities are aware, as many discussions about what to use and the issues various different materials create!
Lambs Wool, rock wool, foil bubble etc!

 

[2into1]

Given the Westfalia experience above, I wonder if the Marco Polo is insulated?

 

[motacyclist]

Seems pointless insulating a van with a canvas pop top.

It's not as if we are likely to contact the external skin, the Cali is well trimmed inside with air gaps between, and air is a good insulator. After all, there is no insulation in double glazing.

The only place you can touch the outer skin is inside the kitchen cupboards; just line these with boxes of porridge.

 

[California4x4]

Seems pointless insulating a van with a canvas pop top.

It's not as if we are likely to contact the external skin, the Cali is well trimmed inside with air gaps between, and air is a good insulator. After all, there is no insulation in double glazing.

The only place you can touch the outer skin is inside the kitchen cupboards; just line these with boxes of porridge.

What is the R-Value of porridge? If it’s got a burly Jock in a vest and kilt on it, it must be pretty good.

 

[2into1]

After all, there is no insulation in double glazing.

But there is now Colin! A whole variety of gases with different R values. Get your point about the pop top though.

 

[ddgp]

I was thinking of at least inside the kitchen and wardrope to put this black sticky foam for isolation

I think it would not be a deal breaker on the lose of space.