T6 Ocean. Broken down and engine will not start. Starter motor does not click in. AA called but baffled.

[Alan Andrews]

Hello to the technical buffs on here.

Yesterday was out for the day. Started first time and drove to first stop. Parked up and returned 1 hour later. Started first time. Drove to destination parked up. Returned 3 hours later to find that the engine will not start.

The starter motor does not click in. But can hear the ABS unit buzz.

Called AA out.

First thought was engine battery. Checked but all good.

Then checked the engine starter, starter Starter Inhibitor Relay and Starter Relay fuse.....quite a tricky task - having to squeeze between seat to access the central fuse panel. With target fuse at the very bottom of the panel. But all tested good.

Then tried to access the starter motor. But is is buried deep inside the engine bay and obscured by many components. So knocked it several times to see if this did the trick. No success.

In the end had to accept that the Cali needs to be recovered and dropped off at my preferred VW van centre. I still have warranty.

The Power Steering Pump was replaced just before xmas. So it has occurred to me that perhaps a electrical connector or connection may have worked loose, but I have no evidence to confirm.

I've read that there are known issues with T4 and T5 starter motors failing, but cannot find anything online to suggest this is a known issue with the T6.

My van will be collected and taken to VW tomorrow (Monday) when they reopen.

Any ideas?

 

[Amarillo]

Hello to the technical buffs on here.

Yesterday was out for the day. Started first time and drove to first stop. Parked up and returned 1 hour later. Started first time. Drove to destination parked up. Returned 3 hours later to find that the engine will not start.

The starter motor does not click in. But can hear the ABS unit buzz.

Called AA out.

First thought was engine battery. Checked but all good.

Then checked the engine starter, starter Starter Inhibitor Relay and Starter Relay fuse.....quite a tricky task - having to squeeze between seat to access the central fuse panel. With target fuse at the very bottom of the panel. But all tested good.

Then tried to access the starter motor. But is is buried deep inside the engine bay and obscured by many components. So knocked it several times to see if this did the trick. No success.

In the end had to accept that the Cali needs to be recovered and dropped off at my preferred VW van centre. I still have warranty.

The Power Steering Pump was replaced just before xmas. So it has occurred to me that perhaps a electrical connector or connection may have worked loose, but I have no evidence to confirm.

I've read that there are known issues with T4 and T5 starter motors failing, but cannot find anything online to suggest this is a known issue with the T6.

My van will be collected and taken to VW tomorrow (Monday) when they reopen.

Any ideas?

AdBlue too low/empty or AdBlue sensor fault?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Thank you for reply.

Adblue level reading 4k range. Also did not even to occur to me or AA to check. No warnings on dash for Adblue or anything else.

Only message was to depress brake pedal to start engine.

 

[andyinluton]

Only message was to depress brake pedal to start engie.

Did that message stay on even when you pressed the brakes?

 

[yossarian]

Only message was to depress brake pedal to start engine.

Brake sensor switch?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Brake sensor switch?

I did wonder this myself whilst waiting for the AA, but the brake indicator light did go out on the dashboard when the peddle was pressed.

I will update on this once VW have it.

 

[yossarian]

Did the vehicle acknowledge your start attempt? Could the keyswitch be faulty?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Did the vehicle acknowledge your start attempt? Could the keyswitch be faulty?

Yes, inserting the key prompts display to light up the dashboard and provide 'depress brake pedal' message. All normal dashboard light are illuminated. No warning messages.

When I return to the vehicle tomorrow morning I will take my VCDS diagnostics to see if there are any errors being reported.

I then need to contact VW to agree drop off, contact AA recovery, and agree initial diagnostics with MotorEasy warranty.

Totally flummoxed by this, but it will get sorted.....hopefully quite quickly!

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I had to have my starter motor replaced last year. T5 though. Your post reminded me of the odd Brake Pedal light that I also got.

starting issues..

i have a 2008, when i turn the ignition quite often nothing happens, dash light come on but engine does not start , so i will try again & it is perfect , today it took 6 times before a response , since then starts first time, i have checked the battery terminals they seem ok , anyone got any...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Alan Andrews]

I had to have my starter motor replaced last year. T5 though. Your post reminded me of the odd Brake Pedal light that I also got.

starting issues..

i have a 2008, when i turn the ignition quite often nothing happens, dash light come on but engine does not start , so i will try again & it is perfect , today it took 6 times before a response , since then starts first time, i have checked the battery terminals they seem ok , anyone got any...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

I am presently waiting for AA recovery. Doing some reading I wonder if it might be starter inhibitor relay..apparently underneath engine battery. The AS man did not consider these. If I had tools with me I'd take a look. Lesson learnt...carry small collection of tools in van. Oh well. I'll me to be when I get there. Next service slot is 3rd Feb!!!!

 

[andyinluton]

I am presently waiting for AA recovery. Doing some reading I wonder if it might be starter inhibitor relay..apparently underneath engine battery. The AS man did not consider these. If I had tools with me I'd take a look. Lesson learnt...carry small collection of tools in van. Oh well. I'll me to be when I get there. Next service slot is 3rd Feb!!!!

Any half competent mechanic should be able to put a multimeter on the starter motor terminals while someone else turns the key. If 12v is getting there the inhibitor relay etc are fine.

 

[Califorian]

Yes, inserting the key prompts display to light up the dashboard and provide 'depress brake pedal' message. All normal dashboard light are illuminated. No warning messages.

When I return to the vehicle tomorrow morning I will take my VCDS diagnostics to see if there are any errors being reported.

I then need to contact VW to agree drop off, contact AA recovery, and agree initial diagnostics with MotorEasy warranty.

Totally flummoxed by this, but it will get sorted.....hopefully quite quickly!

Have you not tried VCDS already? what errors did it show?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Have you not tried VCDS already? what errors did it show?

Yes I plugged in the VCDS. No errors

 

[Ocean Spirit]

Anything untoward underneath? I don't know where your destination was but rodents?

 

[Alan Andrews]

Yes this did occur to me. I did look underneath but with the plastic panels in situ there is not much to look at. What I could see looked ok.

Is now with VW to diagnose and advise.

 

[Lambeth Cali]

I am presently waiting for AA recovery. Doing some reading I wonder if it might be starter inhibitor relay..apparently underneath engine battery. The AS man did not consider these. If I had tools with me I'd take a look. Lesson learnt...carry small collection of tools in van. Oh well. I'll me to be when I get there. Next service slot is 3rd Feb!!!!

Irony is I have a small collection but no idea what to do with it! I can recommend carrying this
Stanley 097552 1.5 - 8mm Fatmax... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0051ABHEC/?tag=eliteelect-21
You can’t get at anything on the California without it!

 

[Alan Andrews]

Irony is I have a small collection but no idea what to do with it! I can recommend carrying this
Stanley 097552 1.5 - 8mm Fatmax... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0051ABHEC/?tag=eliteelect-21
You can’t get at anything on the California without it!

Yes good idea. I have similar for Allen keys but not seen for Torx before.

 

[flying banana]

Turn headlights on. Do the lights flicker or dim when attempting a start?

 

[yossarian]

Is now with VW to diagnose and advise.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Turn headlights on. Do the lights flicker or dim when attempting a start?

Everything behaved and looked as normal...except the starter did not spin.

 

[flying banana]

Everything behaved and looked as normal...except the starter did not spin.

Interested to hear the result. Relay I reckon. I'd you had power to the starter and it didn't spin it would drag the battery down massively. That's a starter failure. Anyway let us know the fix.

 

[Alan Andrews]

Interested to hear the result. Relay I reckon. I'd you had power to the starter and it didn't spin it would drag the battery down massively. That's a starter failure. Anyway let us know the fix.

Yes I will do. My money is on the relay(s) too.

I was surprised that the AA technician did not go with this thought too. But I think that they are time limited on how much time they can spend looking at a problem.

 

[yossarian]

I'd be surprised that a starter relay fault would not trigger an error. My theory is that the vehicle did not see you turn the key to the start position due to some electrical problem like a microswitch in the key switch or a wire or something.

Or perhaps the transponder in the key failed? Or the transponder reader? I wonder what happens if you try start with a non transponder equipped key? Does the vehicle tell you to go away or does it ignore you or does it cut the engine after start? Anyone?

Edit: pity we didn't think to try another key when you had the vehicle.

 

[flying banana]

I'd be surprised that a starter relay fault would not trigger an error. My theory is that the vehicle did not see you turn the key to the start position due to some electrical problem like a microswitch in the key switch or a wire or something.

Or perhaps the transponder in the key failed? Or the transponder reader? I wonder what happens if you try start with a non transponder equipped key? Does the vehicle tell you to go away or does it ignore you or does it cut the engine after start? Anyone?

Edit: pity we didn't think to try another key when you had the vehicle.

I have a surf key without the micro chip. I'll try it and let you all know here what happens. I expect it will turn in the barrel and do nothing

 

[Alan Andrews]

I have a surf key without the micro chip. I'll try it and let you all know here what happens. I expect it will turn in the barrel and do nothing

Yes interested to hear the outcome. Especially to see whether turning the surf key has any affect on normal dashboard lights etc. See below.

With my issue, the key seemed to work as normal. All dash lights are illuminated, and normal 'Depress Brake pedal' to start message. This message went out but no starter motor action.

There is a Starter inhibitor Relay (and fuse), is this just another name for immobiliser?

Anyway no clicks from either the Starter or Starter Inhibitor Relays that I and the AA engineer could here. We were in a very isolated location with no background noise.

It is only after recovery that I learnt about the Starter Inhibitor Relay and its location....beneath the engine battery. So to access the engine battery and the battery tray will need to be removed. So no easy way to test with engine battery power.

As said before, the van is now with VW Van Centre and waiting for an update and diagnosis of the issue.

I will update once I hear anything.