The Right to Drive - Discuss.

[WelshGas]

The Fight for the Right to Drive

The Human Driving Association hopes to pass a constitutional amendment for the age of autonomous vehicles.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Loz]

I got stuck on the image of a guy weeing behind his car and wondering what it had to do with the article...

 

[soulstyledevon]

I got stuck on the image of a guy weeing behind his car and wondering what it had to do with the article...

It demonstrates the freedom to pull over and pee at will.

A world without risk, is sterile and dull. I hope never to see in my lifetime.
Sure as sugar wouldn’t be spending £70k on a vehicle I had no control over...

 

[WelshGas]

I got stuck on the image of a guy weeing behind his car and wondering what it had to do with the article...

You stop, everyone stops. Could be interesting.

 

[Loz]

I'll read it later when I'm supposed to be working...

 

[Nick Stubbs]

"they aim to make travelling by automobile as safe as flying in a plane." I fly a small plane, you need your wits about you looking out for other traffic which may not have seen you, surprising how bad the vis can be a few thousand feet, I have a device which shows other traffic on what you would call a sat nav and sometimes you never eyeball the conflict, mid air collisions do happen although rare.

 

[Rich20]

A very interesting article. Being old school I would still like to be in control of my vehicle without the masses of electronic aids to “help” me. I understand the need to improve safety but the following sentence has to be considered for the world we live in now.

In Roy’s opinion, the best way to make driving safer has nothing to do with technology: it’s to raise licensing standards and improve driver education.

The driving standards that are commonplace on our roads now are awful. Cutting in, late breaking, inappropriate speed, mobile phones and the impatience to get there now are the causes of many unnecessary accidents. As a HGV driver I have 35 hours of classroom training every five years to be able to continue my entitlement to drive trucks. Maybe it is time to introduce the same system for car and van drivers to include the following:

How to enter and exit a roundabout.
Why there is a gap between a truck and the vehicle in front.
How to use the vehicle indicators.
Join the end of a queue instead of cutting in.
Turn your mobile phone off if you don’t have hands free.
Understand the importance of patience.
Check your vehicle lights working.
Stop at a zebra crossing if someone wants to cross it.
Don’t try to drive in snow if you don’t have the correct tyres or talent.

I suppose autonomous vehicle would put a stop to all these things so I will have to be patient myself until then.

 

[WelshGas]

Personally I cannot see autonomous vehicles being anything but " Follow my Leader " transport pods, and introducing them into a predominantly manual system a recipe for disaster

 

[westfalia]

Personally I cannot see autonomous vehicles being anything but " Follow my Leader " transport pods, and introducing them into a predominantly manual system a recipe for disaster

You mean like a train or tram

 

[WelshGas]

You mean like a train or tram

Yes. ACC cruise control. At least you still have a driver to change lanes.

 

[MattBW]

We were discussing this this morning, over time things that were acceptable become unbelievable.

They used to smoke in our office, then it was a smoking room, then outside. Someone smoking next to us at our desk seems crazy today. In fact cigarette companies used to give employees free cigs with hindsight its weird.

Maybe kids one day will find it weird we had cakes in the office because they are bad for us. Or that we ate bacon full of nitrates etc etc.

And one day people being allowed to drive cars may be seen as crazy, maybe even the fact we put highly flammable fuel in them kind of bizarre.

Cars being autonomous in this country is a long way off simply because the roads aren't suitable. They certainly couldn't be any worse than the standard of driving today.

 

[Velma's Dad]

The driving standards that are commonplace on our roads now are awful. Cutting in, late breaking, inappropriate speed, mobile phones and the impatience to get there now are the causes of many unnecessary accidents. As a HGV driver I have 35 hours of classroom training every five years to be able to continue my entitlement to drive trucks. Maybe it is time to introduce the same system for car and van drivers to include the following:

How to enter and exit a roundabout.
Why there is a gap between a truck and the vehicle in front.
How to use the vehicle indicators.
Join the end of a queue instead of cutting in.
Turn your mobile phone off if you don’t have hands free.
Understand the importance of patience.
Check your vehicle lights working.
Stop at a zebra crossing if someone wants to cross it.
Don’t try to drive in snow if you don’t have the correct tyres or talent.

+1, with knobs on.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Yes. ACC cruise control. At least you still have a driver to change lanes.

ACC for if you like driving with your brain disengaged...
That’s autonomy creeping in slowly, along with lane assist etc etc.
What wrong with concentrating 100% with the task at hand, driving.

 

[2into1]

Cars being autonomous in this country is a long way off simply because the roads aren't suitable.

That’s my thoughts too but some of us here recently took part in some paid market research that suggests very much the opposite. It’s the next ‘new’ thing and I suspect the only developments taking place on conventional vehicles are those that lead them towards winning the future autonomous race.

 

[MattBW]

I know folks that are working on such things, and the tech is indeed moving fast but it has a very long way to go before it they drive on anything other than nice wide roads with clear markings. They will start appearing soon but they may well be restricted to specific areas for some time to come.

 

[blondebier]

ACC for if you like driving with your brain disengaged...
That’s autonomy creeping in slowly, along with lane assist etc etc.

Interesting discussion this.

A few years back I got a new car (Golf GTE) and it came with autonomous emergency braking.

One morning I was pulling in to the road near the office up from a mainline railway station. A commuter was looking down at her phone, with head phones in and stepped out in to the road as I turned the corner.

The car stopped dead.

I don't know how fast I was going (10-15mph maybe), but there is no way had I been driving my previous car that I would have reacted and stopped the car in time.

I remember the look on her face like it was yesterday. Still makes me shudder. (She was a right cow, waved her arms in the air and a whole host of expletives came out of her mouth - like it was my fault!)

I was very grateful for this "driver aid" that day and I can't imagine I'd go back to a car without it if I had the choice today.

I was also glad when VW made it standard on the later T6s. Our 2016 Beach didn't have it.

I think of these advances like the introduction of anti-lock braking. They are good and make driving safer.

I really enjoy driving and don't relish the thought of computers taking the enjoyment out of it though. If they make it safer, then I'm all for it.

 

[WelshGas]

Interesting discussion this.

A few years back I got a new car (Golf GTE) and it came with autonomous emergency braking.

One morning I was pulling in to the road near the office up from a mainline railway station. A commuter was looking down at her phone, with head phones in and stepped out in to the road as I turned the corner.

The car stopped dead.

I don't know how fast I was going (10-15mph maybe), but there is no way had I been driving my previous car that I would have reacted and stopped the car in time.

I remember the look on her face like it was yesterday. Still makes me shudder. (She was a right cow, waved her arms in the air and a whole host of expletives came out of her mouth - like it was my fault!)

I was very grateful for this "driver aid" that day and I can't imagine I'd go back to a car without it if I had the choice today.

I was also glad when VW made it standard on the later T6s. Our 2016 Beach didn't have it.

I think of these advances like the introduction of anti-lock braking. They are good and make driving safer.

I really enjoy driving and don't relish the thought of computers taking the enjoyment out of it though. If they make it safer, then I'm all for it.

But did that stupid person Learn anything from that episode? No, she is just as stupid preferring to look at her phone rather than check the road. If she had been knocked to the floor then maybe next time she would have taken more notice. Harsh I know, but as it said in that article, training and learning may bring all the gains needed.
I wish ALL smartphones were disabled when moving so pedestrians have to stop to use their phone. Not difficult to do, but instead we have to have 'City Braking " to keep the idiots safe . Likewise in cars . Not difficult to stop calls, text messages etc: when on the move but still leave the music/SatNav capabilities working.

Maybe we should follow the States and make " Jaywalking" a criminal offence.

 

[Velma's Dad]

ACC for if you like driving with your brain disengaged...
That’s autonomy creeping in slowly, along with lane assist etc etc.
What wrong with concentrating 100% with the task at hand, driving.

Nothing wrong with it but the problem is that 100% concentration, all the time, just isn't possible for us humans. Hence we kill more than a million people every year. Machines can concentrate 100% of the time and before very long will also be able to interpret correctly pretty much any road situation.

I'll be gutted if I can no longer drive my TR4 one day, but I can't really make a non-selfish argument for why I should be allowed to. I don't personally believe it's my fundamental human right to put other people at risk, once vastly safer alternatives become the norm.

 

[Amarillo]

Maybe we should follow the States and make " Jaywalking" a criminal offence.

Perhaps it would be better if we as motorists remember that on all highways, with the exception of motorways and a few other roads, pedestrians and cyclists have an unrestricted right of passage; motorists can only use the highway under licence.

 

[Velma's Dad]

This thread is brewing up... let's just remember how ugly that cyclist/anti-cyclist thread got last year...

 

[soulstyledevon]

I was pulling right out of a junction at work a few years ago. Checked the road to my left. Nothing in sight, waited on two cars to pass and then pulled out.
A Chinese student riding along the pavement, decides to drop off the pavement and cycle in front of me...???
Anyway she landed under the bonnet of my van.
Stupid action on her behalf. Its a case of natural selection.
Where the smart survive and thrive.

 

[WelshGas]

Perhaps it would be better if we as motorists remember that on all highways, with the exception of motorways and a few other roads, pedestrians and cyclists have an unrestricted right of passage; motorists can only use the highway under licence.

Everyone should take personal responsibility for their own actions.

General guidance (1 to 6) Rules for pedestrians

The Highway Code rules for pedestrians, including general guidance, crossing the road, crossings, and situations needing extra care

www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk

 

[Amarillo]

Anyway she landed under the bonnet of my van.
Stupid action on her behalf. Its a case of natural selection.
Where the smart survive and thrive.

There is an abundance of stories relating acts of stupidity by road users of all sorts, many with catastrophic consequences. There is, however, a greater duty of care required from someone driving, often at considerable speed, inside a steel box than someone with little more than flip-flops and clothing defending their body.

 

[Digger]

Actually in legal terms each individual has the same duty of care and responsibilty unless a child or very elderly. Drivers do however have to recognise their potential for greater danger and effect, hence testing and insurance. As a cyclist I despair of all groups when they dont think or disregard their own responsibility.

 

[Rich20]

There is an abundance of stories relating acts of stupidity by road users of all sorts, many with catastrophic consequences. There is, however, a greater duty of care required from someone driving, often at considerable speed, inside a steel box than someone with little more than flip-flops and clothing defending their body.

I don’t fully agree with this Amarillo. If you have minimal protection as a pedestrian, surely you instinct for survival would make you even more aware of your surroundings and take the necessary steps to look after yourself.