Thinking of swapping my RNS 510 for an aftermarket CarPlay unit. Alpine iLX-700 or Pioneer SPH-DA120

[Vanalli]

Exactly Howie - Apple Maps needs a signal all of the time (it can operate with a very brief signal loss) Other apps such as Waze and GoogleMaps both cache at least the route you're travelling such that if a signal is lost, there's no problem (also you can start the route in your own home/office on wifi then just carry on when you get to the car and it consumes less mobile bandwidth). I don't know what Apple was thinking when it binned Google (politics!) and decided to do its own thing, Google is annoying, but it is very good at what it does.

The only problem with mirrorlink is that the ruddy RNS510 doesn't have a standard RCA video in and so must use one of these type adapters;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371312461095?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

...so that I can then hook up the mirrorlink device such as this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141264524563?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I need to fathom out how to power these little gizmos and I will order one (I don't fancy splicing canbus connected cables!)

My feeling is that this will be cheaper at around £175 but then for not much more I could just opt for the CarPad. I guess I would be keeping the original head unit (factory look) but the downside is that the mirrorlink is display only and the phone needs to be used/controlled (although not connected).

My experience with Apple maps is that as long as you set your route before you leave an Internet connection you will still be ok even when there is no signal.

 

[Andy]

Both devices together cost way less than the Kenwood DNX525, which IMO has a horrible UX, uses Garmin maps (eurgh) and no voice control. And also less than the 510 with it's stone age UI (also Garmin).
.

The maps are not Garmin maps. They are produced by Navteq.

 

[Freeley]

My pioneer was navteq - just bought the 2015 map update and noticed it's now called HERE. Don't know if it's just a name change or more significant. Worked well going to German alps anyway.

Sent from my Galaxy S6

 

[reserves]

we each have a different set of needs. I have a dedicated Tom Tom Go 610 w/ European and Asian maps, which is just awesome. What I need is really good quality audio processing for the lossless audio files on my device, the ability to play podcasts and audio books on long journeys, as well as voice integration for phone/messages. That's it. Parking sensor, climate control display and RCA video in (all on the Alpine iLX-700) is also helpful.

Alpine iLX-700 looks nice, wonder how it would look in the T5 though, would need some time of facia.

Lack of DAB is disappointing, this is something I use a lot, but might not be essential for everyone.

 

[reserves]

Found this pic of the Pioneer in a T5, looks good, imagine the Alpine will look pretty similar

 

[reserves]

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

@fred that's the point of having a device like this surely, it's just one device. I can start the nav to one of my contacts at home or in the office, then just plug it into the car. Apple maps isn't bad, but it's not the best of the bunch (Waze free is excellent and crowd-sourced) which is why this is so annoying. The wifi CarPlay option looks good as I also presume that the lack of BT means that the phone must be tethered which is daft as it's not used once CarPlay is activated (perhaps it can be placed in the glovebox or up on the top tray dash?)

I just don't want cables and phones or aftermarket nav units anywhere. I want a nice, smooth single device that works with CAN and leverages my iPhone. The Alpine is the closest to what I want (Pioneer doesn't support CAN e.g. no parking sensors/climate display etc), but the android tablets/CarPad etc look a decent alternative and some do support this. @reserves the Alpine screen is slightly bigger than the Pioneer and has a narrower bezel with a home button you can 'feel' (handy when you're not looking at the unit)

Today I went to my local VW specialist and they had a nice big display from Alpine.... oooh.... Looks lovely, BUT his words are that there are some "T5/T6-specific and Audi units just around the corner" so I will probably hang on a little and see what they're like. Probably £££££!

The saga continues....

 

[fred]

The maps are not Garmin maps. They are produced by Navteq.

Apologies. Still awful design imo.

 

[fred]

And I was completely wrong about wireless carplay too, as it's been released in iOS9 (not my day today it seems!)

Wireless CarPlay

Found under Settings > General > CarPlay, the option in iOS 9 allows users to enable Wi-Fi to connect to a compatible Wireless CarPlay system. No Wireless CarPlay system is available currently, so expect more news on the support of this feature in late 2015, early 2016, most likely at CES 2016.

 

[fred]

@AndyFromTheBrac totally agree about a single unit that does everything. Waze or Tomtom (app) would be awesome. I'm not an apple maps user but I do know they have been one of the first major providers to offer offline maps / vectors, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were to improve apple maps offline capability first, which would solve the problem I think. They're clearly putting a lot of dev work in to maps at the moment.

Anyway I've ordered an Alpine iLX-700 despite the lack of BT (which only annoys me b/c Android users cannot easily connect & play music), I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

I've just been scanning for a Pioneer product that supports CAN bus and found this
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/extra/25-111/241/car/vehicle-bus-display-support.html
Suggests all of their AVIC range supports CAN integration The older AVIC-F970BT supports "limited models" but includes "VW T5 multivan" (with an adaptor) This head unit can be had for about £495 on Amazon or £530 at Halfords

Not sure how much this adapter is but the nice thing about this unit is that it can connect to either phone ecosystem. I'm unlikely to ever own an Android, but the guy who buys my Cali in the future just might.

There are then two new models; AVIC-F77DAB, AVIC-F70DAB which offer Android Auto and CarPlay plus DAB and CAN - seems to tick every box, but they're quite a bit more expensive +£760 and £680 respectively (bit more still at Halfords)

source:http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/newsroom/news/androidauto_applecarplay/page.html

The Pioneer UI for its extra features looks a bit tacky though, the iLX-700 is much crisper.I am *still* leaning towards that. Waiting for @fred to let us know how he gets on now!

@reserves iLX-700 in a T5, just for you

EDIT: Pioneer have now removed the info on CAN support for some reason. Those links just go to a Pioneer holding page. Not sure why

 

[fred]

Update:
ILx-700 delivered (£380 from Handtech) and installed myself - took about 2 hours.
Required a CTKVW01 fitting kit - £65 including canbus MFSW controls. Ipod cable runs to the glovebox.
I mounted the mic in the tray directly underneath the climate controls, ran the cable around the back of the climate controls and drilled a small hole in top of the tray which is now invisible.
Have wired up my glovebox aux-in socket to the aux input on the head unit, so non apple users can still play music.

Slightly annoyingly the Canbus adapter that comes with the CTKVW01 fitting kit enables steering controls but doesn't permit head unit visual display of parking sensors, climate controls or have MFD support. Parking sensors still beep though so not all is lost. To enable visual display of parking sensors you need a different adapter, CTUVW01, which is £150! Currently considering buying the rear camera HCE-C155 instead as it's roughly the same price.

One good thing I've discovered is that the AUX in supports AV, so I can get/make a plug that allows me to connect an RCA input and play video from my ipod classic (or perhaps connect a TUE-DAB1U for DAB/DAB+) directly to the display (another £190 including antenna).

Early impression of apple maps via carplay is that it's excellent, nothing like the apple maps of old.

Next step is to install the two pairs of JL Audio C2-650 component speakers front and rear and tune the sound via the Alpine Tuneit iphone app.

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

Good tip re the fitting kit @fred it doesn't make it clear on the Alpine website. Look forward to hearing about the unit in action!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MattBW]

I must admit am really tempted by the DA120, the fact you can use apps via your phone is very appealing indeed. As you say the UI looks a bit tacky, but no more tacky than my current VW one.

I find Waze a superb sat nav (and free too) that has far better routing and travel data than the VW one I have. The VW although it does have traffic info seems a bit unreliable in it's routing compared with waze.

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

I've decided to bail on the CarPlay units and am going the Newsmy Carpad 2S route as posted by @gregspam and championed by @johnyboy here. See this thread; http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/aftermarket-headunit-newsmy-carpad-2s.9558/ For me (even with an iPhone) this solution will be better suited.

What swung it for me was the flexibility of the Newsmy unit, the much larger, hiigher res capacitive touch screen and the developer support http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/Newsmy_CarPad_NU3001/Custom_ROMs

Ordered it from the Spanish reseller with a 2-year warranty here; http://exclusivecarauto.com/android-radio-quadcore-carpad-wifi-newsmy-p-1017.html

At this price, I can afford to keep my RNS 510 and sell both HUs on with the Cali (should I ever part with it!)

 

[MattBW]

Keep us updated once it's in and let us know what it's like.

 

[fred]

I've decided to bail on the CarPlay units and am going the Newsmy Carpad 2S route as posted by @gregspam and championed by @johnyboy here. See this thread; http://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/aftermarket-headunit-newsmy-carpad-2s.9558/ For me (even with an iPhone) this solution will be better suited.

What swung it for me was the flexibility of the Newsmy unit, the much larger, hiigher res capacitive touch screen and the developer support http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/Newsmy_CarPad_NU3001/Custom_ROMs

Ordered it from the Spanish reseller with a 2-year warranty here; http://exclusivecarauto.com/android-radio-quadcore-carpad-wifi-newsmy-p-1017.html

At this price, I can afford to keep my RNS 510 and sell both HUs on with the Cali (should I ever part with it!)

Nice large screen but reading that thread I couldn't imagine a more different product from an alpine CarPlay head unit - buggy firmware, power drain issues, fixes from Russian message boards, dubious sound quality... sounds like one for the tinkerers amongst us. Still, each to their own!

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

Ultimately I knew I just wouldn't be satisfied by Apples determination of what's appropriate for me in my car.

This way, I'll still keep my RNS510 but scratch my tinkering (I'm 25+ years in IT) itch too.

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

Just when I thought I'd made up my mind. I've not gone ahead with this order. Dammit I want CarPlay, BUT...

@fred your comments did resonate and when delving a little deeper it does seem like the CarPad is perhaps not the finished article.I do like to muck about with things, but equally I like things to work without too much hassle.

Am I asking for the moon on a stick? Everything seems to be a compromise.
I need iPhone support (but ideally I'd like to have the option of Android so I don't alienate someone who may buy my van in the future).
I'd like to have a choice of apps over and above the CarPlay ones
I'd also like CAN bus support for the parking sensors and stuff
I'd like bluetooth

The Alpine iLX-700 has only 2 of those 4; iPhone/Carplay and CAN bus

For some reason Pioneer have removed the information on the CAN bus support in the link I added earlier, but I do know that the new(er) AVIC-F70DAB does indeed offer CAN support for parking sensors/ climate controls etc. Whilst not having this is by no means a deal breaker, it's good to see it here.

http://support.pioneer.eu/peeservic...1257E0600429901/$file/CRB4516_AVIC-F70DAB.pdf (see page 34-35) and over here; http://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur/products/avic-f70dab/specifications

The AVH-X8600BT (older) and AVIC-F970BT also support CAN bus (other models listed in that pdf manual too). They are in the £500 price bracket so not crazy. They all have Android support.

Pioneer have the AppRadio option (supports other apps like Waze, iGo, NavFree etc) but it's not clear if they still work under iOS8 or 9. AppRadio was the forerunner of CarPlay but it seems that they have stopped developing it so much since CarPlay has taken a hold. Also you need to connect your iPhone using a seperate HDMI-USB-Lightning adapter FrankenCable which is a real pain by the looks of it.

I think I'm going to go and have a big scream and then bang my head against the wall for the rest of the day.

 

[reserves]

I think I'm going to go and have a big scream and then bang my head against the wall for the rest of the day.

Give Jason from Absolut5 a call, he recommended me a head unit for the T5 (sorry I've forgotten which unit)

He'll know about the CanBus support etc. they do loads of good work on T5's from seeing their Facebook page

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

I must admit am really tempted by the DA120, the fact you can use apps via your phone is very appealing indeed....I find Waze a superb sat nav (and free too) that has far better routing and travel data than the VW one

@MattBW Sorry I missed your comments. The drawback with this is that these units don't appear to support Waze properly (the Alpine certainly doesn't). The Pioneer units have had support for it in the past, but it seems a bit flaky now. If you have an older iPhone 4 under iOS7 (!) then it works, later versions it all gets murky. There is also the wierd cable connector to consider, I found this (buried) on the Pioneer site http://www.pioneer-car.eu/eur/sites/minisites/eur/page/products/appradio-mode/compatibility.html - the top connection is used for CarPlay and the bottom (freak!) for AppRadio (the option which did let you use 3rd party apps like Waze). You can't easily switch, have to unplug the iPhone!

 

[fred]

@AndyFromTheBrac

I wouldn't bother with anything other than a decent quality (Pioneer, Alpine..) HU if you plan to upgrade speakers etc. at a later stage. Pretty certain that there are two different CANBUS interface adapters for both Alpine and Pioneer, dependent on whether you need climate/parking sensor integration, but worth checking. Both manufacturers state that their HU's can support climate/parking sensor display, but as I found out that's not the whole answer.

Personally I'm buying a HU for me and my needs, not for the next owner of my Cali. In 5 years the market will have moved on significantly and, particularly if you're staying with the same manufacturer, HU swap out is a 5 minute job for a prospective owner. So if today i install an Alpine HU, the Alpine CANBUS harness, Alpine DAB interface, upgrade the speakers, all except the HU could quite happily stay with the current vehicle and the new owner could choose the right HU for his/her own needs, as long as it was from the same manufacturer, allowing them to buy and fit what they want for their needs. Or alternatively (and probably a better idea), you keep the HU and harness when you sell the bus and refit your RNS-510.

Today the choice is to either buy a fully featured head unit with everything built in and feed audio from your phone, or what is basically a headless unit that has few features. I have an opinion about where the market is going, which I'm willing to commit to, so I guess that makes me an early adopter. I don't care what apps are installed as long as it's stable, great SQ and I have a great UX for navigation. (Apple maps is doing that for me btw).

Forget about Pioneer's AppRadio, it's already end of life. I would ask you why do you think you need BT or 3rd party apps? (TMK the pioneer doesn't offer BT, it's a fully featured HU with a price to match, that also has carplay). Like I said, Apple Maps crushes Waze. But if you're still not sure, then wait for the next generation of HUs in 12-24 months and see where the market is?

 

[AndyFromTheBrac]

@fred I hear you, I really do. Coming from someone who bought the very first iPhone on release day, I geniunely believe Apple gets it right more often than not. However they can be somewhat blinkered in what they believe is appropriate, mostly well-founded, but they just lose the plot sometimes when it comes to international users, which is where 3rd party apps come into play; MLB at bat, CBS Radio? It's like AppleTV (Mine has been sat in a drawer for several years) Come on Apple, there are people using your stuff outside of downtown Miami.

As for Apple Maps crushing anything; I am yet to be convinced. Basic driving A-to-B directions are ok, but get it to find anything meaningful locally and it just fails. Traffic is where? Loathe it as I do, Google has that covered.

Anyway, the very fact that our needs differ slightly and we're engaging in healthy debate is really what concerns me most with Apple. It's restrictive (with good reason, I work in InfoSec) but sometimes offers no meaningful alternative. I like the choice of it's apps.

All that said, I do believe that the CarPlay UX will evolve well as more manufacturers jump on the bandwagon and insist on change. They see a relatively inexpensive way to drag their stone-age HUs into the 21st century and their input will only be a good thing, see the new 2016 VW HUs have CarPlay built in here;

I do think perhaps a little too much about resale (hence my somewhat safe colour) but I do believe leveraging the power of the smartphone into a pretty static HU is the way forward, most likely CarPlay.

So looks like the Alpine just wins it for me on it's look and feel, decent features, it has bluetooth and wifi chips inside (hopes for wireless carplay after a firmware update?). All at a good price (tho I've yet to play with one properly) I tried out a Pioneer (forget which one but not the SPA-120) and it's UI was like something from an 80's Sci Fi movie. It was ok once in CarPlay tho.

 

[fred]

You know that Apple maps on CarPlay is different from Apple maps on the iPhone, right? It has traffic notifications for example, tho there are some limitations RN around in-journey updates to traffic incidents for example. There's lots to improve with CarPlay but it's clearly the future of ICE and yes I'm expecting updates to be frequent too.

Perhaps you could check the Parrot RNB6 when it comes out? Or buy the alpine now (almost certainly much cheaper) and sell it if you really don't get on with it?

 

[IanE]

Sadly the RNB6 appears to have been dropped by parrot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk