Buy all your VW California Accessories at the Club Shop Visit Shop

What constitutes a short journey?

WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
17,838
Location
United Kingdom
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
My daughter recently bought an 11 month old, 9,000 mile Transporter from a VW dealer with the aim of doing a conversion; it had been used as a parts delivery van, and on getting it back to Cornwall it broke down twice with warning lights, having to call out the AA, over a week spent at a dealership etc. Eventually they decided the DPF was blocked, it wasn’t her fault and so replaced it free of charge. She now takes it on a decent run to enable the DPF regeneration.
That's the beauty of the Carista, you know the status of the DPF and when it needs regeneration.
 
S

Stu@rt

Messages
182
Location
Kent
Vehicle
Looking to buy
That's the beauty of the Carista, you know the status of the DPF and when it needs regeneration.
I currently run a 2016 2.2 diesel Jeep, that will be making way for the Cali when it arrives. I am not a high mileage user (Even less so now working from home more than ever). I am familiar with the need for the regen when the DPF needs a clear out. So have been known to take it for a longer run when you know that 2 successive regens have been cut short (Fans spinning up after turning it off). So the Carista's ability to start a regen at a time of my choosing (i.e. when you know your planned journey suits it) sounds like a great idea. I assume that functionality only comes with the £45 annual subscription?
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
17,838
Location
United Kingdom
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
I currently run a 2016 2.2 diesel Jeep, that will be making way for the Cali when it arrives. I am not a high mileage user (Even less so now working from home more than ever). I am familiar with the need for the regen when the DPF needs a clear out. So have been known to take it for a longer run when you know that 2 successive regens have been cut short (Fans spinning up after turning it off). So the Carista's ability to start a regen at a time of my choosing (i.e. when you know your planned journey suits it) sounds like a great idea. I assume that functionality only comes with the £45 annual subscription?
I'm afraid so, but probably worth it in the long run. Also you can use it for various modifications, Automatic locking when a certain speed reached etc. There are other makes, Obdeleven etc; that work similarly but I'm not sure if they do the DPF.
 
S

Stu@rt

Messages
182
Location
Kent
Vehicle
Looking to buy
I'm afraid so, but probably worth it in the long run. Also you can use it for various modifications, Automatic locking when a certain speed reached etc. There are other makes, Obdeleven etc; that work similarly but I'm not sure if they do the DPF.
Thanks very much
 
B J G

B J G

Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
3,089
Location
Stamford
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 204 4Motion
That's the beauty of the Carista, you know the status of the DPF and when it needs regeneration.
Have you noted the reading for soot level.
I had 9.6% on last check.
When in for remap they said it was 11% pre remap..

I haven't forced a regen as yet but noticed that Carista gave instructions to drive immediately for a certain time & speed/revs. need to do a check and write down the instructions.

MOT last week had " emissions too low to obtain a reading". I don't do short journeys in UK.

On a different point we ran my Wife's EOS on the high grade Diesel for 8 years from new then VW Fix done and the EGR fault came on the next day. VW replaced the EGR Valve with a 90% contribution. It was mainly a short journey car.
 
R

rich11235

VIP Member
Messages
35
Location
Sussex, UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Anything that doesn’t get the temp gauge up to 90C by the time you park up. But not just short journeys can clog up DPF, sustained running at low speeds/engine load even with engine warmed up can be problematic. So if stuck in traffic for a long time best turn the engine off (or let stop start do it’s thing)
 
Tarquers

Tarquers

Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
205
Location
Wrocław
Vehicle
T6 Beach 4Motion
I am less worried about the DPF than the EGR. I get the theory but putting exhaust gases back into the engine just strikes me as asking for problems. Have read some interesting reports on changing the map to stop the EGR from opening once the engine is warm, seems like the best compromise for long term engine health.

part of my concern is we are buying this van as a keeper, if it was a lease I knew I was going to get rid of in a few years time I wouldn’t worry but the idea of dropping a significant amount of cash on a vehicle I can’t use for every trip does not sound like the most sensible choice I can make.
 
HowieDog

HowieDog

VIP Member
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
283
Location
Poole
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Everyone will have a different idea, our choice is never to use our Beach for under 20 miles.
We only live a mile or so from the beach so I’m hardly going to drive 10 miles the wrong way when we head down with out paddle boards . The Cali gets a good run pretty often otherwise.
 
BeagleMum

BeagleMum

VIP Member
Messages
1,090
Location
Wirral
Vehicle
T6 Beach 150
We only live a mile or so from the beach so I’m hardly going to drive 10 miles the wrong way when we head down with out paddle boards . The Cali gets a good run pretty often otherwise.
We live a mile from the beach, no way would we consider driving the Cali for a mile.
 
WelshGas

WelshGas

Retired after 42 yrs and enjoying Life.
Top Poster
Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
17,838
Location
United Kingdom
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
I am less worried about the DPF than the EGR. I get the theory but putting exhaust gases back into the engine just strikes me as asking for problems. Have read some interesting reports on changing the map to stop the EGR from opening once the engine is warm, seems like the best compromise for long term engine health.

part of my concern is we are buying this van as a keeper, if it was a lease I knew I was going to get rid of in a few years time I wouldn’t worry but the idea of dropping a significant amount of cash on a vehicle I can’t use for every trip does not sound like the most sensible choice I can make.
Well I've done 100 K miles on 1 EGR. I had the EGR changed at 900 miles due to an electrical fault in it and since then No Problems.
Blanking Off the EGR valve on the T5/5.1 was done by some but it seems less so on the T6 and the T6.1 with all the additional Emissions equipment, unto you. Could end up causing more problems than you hope to solve. Also it will have an effect on emissions. I don't know if they measure that in your country but these emission tests are getting more sophisticated. Hope your a gambling man.:thumb
 
Tarquers

Tarquers

Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
205
Location
Wrocław
Vehicle
T6 Beach 4Motion
Well I've done 100 K miles on 1 EGR. I had the EGR changed at 900 miles due to an electrical fault in it and since then No Problems.
Blanking Off the EGR valve on the T5/5.1 was done by some but it seems less so on the T6 and the T6.1 with all the additional Emissions equipment, unto you. Could end up causing more problems than you hope to solve. Also it will have an effect on emissions. I don't know if they measure that in your country but these emission tests are getting more sophisticated. Hope your a gambling man.:thumb
I am not talking about blanking it off. appreciate the EGR is useful in bringing the engine up to temperature faster, which it does, but thereafter, I would prefer to not be throwing carbon and various other nasties back into the engine. An engine that I am hoping will last me a very long time. Police here are aggressive in mobile testing, wow bet it’s anyone whose engine smokes.

Worth pointing out the UK MOT test (and in (insert country here) )is conducted with a closed EGR, i.e., at idle so it’s a moot point, the presence or not of the EGR is not tested. As to gambling, it seems we are all gambling that a crazy technology that is the automotive equivalent of eating your own faeces is going to be great in the long run, and having to decide if the vehicle we own should be driven a “short” distance does make the question of fit for purpose relevant.

nothing I have read here or in any other post gives me confidence in diesels in general in the long run (and I am not looking to bash diesel), but like the warranty on electric car batteries, if we are forced as consumers to have these “solutions” imposed on us, surely we should have some guarantee other than the guarantee of a £2k bill at around 10 years.

I write this without losing sight of the lucky position I am in to be able to choose to buy what is ultimately a leisure vehicle which will carry me and my family to play with other toys we are lucky enough to have and to provide us with leisure time for hopefully a very long time, but it would be nice to do so without having the doubt in the back of my mind before turning the key every time.

My conclusion is that (if I don’t cancel the diesel order and pop across to Germany to pick up an overpriced TSI model) I will go for a gentle remap that will limit the EGR engagement to the warm up scenario only, treat the van to regular oil changes, then just use the van for what I bought it for, the sheer pleasure of driving and worry about it all in 5 years when the extended warranty runs out! Each to their own, but I feel confident I have at least done my homework and I am making my own decision. Feel free to ask me in 10 years if I got it wrong or right.
 
R

rich11235

VIP Member
Messages
35
Location
Sussex, UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
I am not talking about blanking it off. appreciate the EGR is useful in bringing the engine up to temperature faster, which it does, but thereafter, I would prefer to not be throwing carbon and various other nasties back into the engine. An engine that I am hoping will last me a very long time. Police here are aggressive in mobile testing, wow bet it’s anyone whose engine smokes.

Worth pointing out the UK MOT test (and in (insert country here) )is conducted with a closed EGR, i.e., at idle so it’s a moot point, the presence or not of the EGR is not tested. As to gambling, it seems we are all gambling that a crazy technology that is the automotive equivalent of eating your own faeces is going to be great in the long run, and having to decide if the vehicle we own should be driven a “short” distance does make the question of fit for purpose relevant.

nothing I have read here or in any other post gives me confidence in diesels in general in the long run (and I am not looking to bash diesel), but like the warranty on electric car batteries, if we are forced as consumers to have these “solutions” imposed on us, surely we should have some guarantee other than the guarantee of a £2k bill at around 10 years.

I write this without losing sight of the lucky position I am in to be able to choose to buy what is ultimately a leisure vehicle which will carry me and my family to play with other toys we are lucky enough to have and to provide us with leisure time for hopefully a very long time, but it would be nice to do so without having the doubt in the back of my mind before turning the key every time.

My conclusion is that (if I don’t cancel the diesel order and pop across to Germany to pick up an overpriced TSI model) I will go for a gentle remap that will limit the EGR engagement to the warm up scenario only, treat the van to regular oil changes, then just use the van for what I bought it for, the sheer pleasure of driving and worry about it all in 5 years when the extended warranty runs out! Each to their own, but I feel confident I have at least done my homework and I am making my own decision. Feel free to ask me in 10 years if I got it wrong or right.
My job is designing Diesel engines - they have been eating their own for 20 odd years now. Yes, EGR systems do go wrong, but nine times out of ten it is short journeys or lots of in traffic/light load that kills them. The UK mot test is free acceleration against the engines inertia (not idle) but it is only looking at smoke and if your DPF is intact it would be impossible to fail. EGR is not used to reduce smoke (on the contrary), it is used for NOx reduction (oxides of nitrogen). Any van which is Euro 6 will have SCR (using adblue) as well as EGR to control NOx. And EGR is not used to bring the engine up to temperature - in some cases you can’t put too much EGR into the engine when cold as it causes misfire
 
66tim99

66tim99

Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
774
Location
London
Vehicle
T6.1 Ocean 150
My job is designing Diesel engines - they have been eating their own for 20 odd years now. Yes, EGR systems do go wrong, but nine times out of ten it is short journeys or lots of in traffic/light load that kills them. The UK mot test is free acceleration against the engines inertia (not idle) but it is only looking at smoke and if your DPF is intact it would be impossible to fail. EGR is not used to reduce smoke (on the contrary), it is used for NOx reduction (oxides of nitrogen). Any van which is Euro 6 will have SCR (using adblue) as well as EGR to control NOx. And EGR is not used to bring the engine up to temperature - in some cases you can’t put too much EGR into the engine when cold as it causes misfire
Thanks. So you avoid short/light load journeys in your California?
 
S

Scoobz1

Messages
210
Location
Peaks
Vehicle
T6 Ocean 150
My job is designing Diesel engines - they have been eating their own for 20 odd years now. Yes, EGR systems do go wrong, but nine times out of ten it is short journeys or lots of in traffic/light load that kills them. The UK mot test is free acceleration against the engines inertia (not idle) but it is only looking at smoke and if your DPF is intact it would be impossible to fail. EGR is not used to reduce smoke (on the contrary), it is used for NOx reduction (oxides of nitrogen). Any van which is Euro 6 will have SCR (using adblue) as well as EGR to control NOx. And EGR is not used to bring the engine up to temperature - in some cases you can’t put too much EGR into the engine when cold as it causes misfire
How do you manage this : "I would prefer to not be throwing carbon and various other nasties back into the engine" ?
 
R

rich11235

VIP Member
Messages
35
Location
Sussex, UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
My job is designing Diesel engines - they have been eating their own for 20 odd years now. Yes, EGR systems do go wrong, but nine times out of ten it is short journeys or lots of in traffic/light load that kills them. The UK mot test is free acceleration against the engines inertia (not idle) but it is only looking at smoke and if your DPF is intact it would be impossible to fail. EGR is not used to reduce smoke (on the contrary), it is used for NOx reduction (oxides of nitrogen). Any van which is Euro 6 will have SCR (using adblue) as well as EGR to control NOx
How do you manage this : "I would prefer to not be throwing carbon and various other nasties back into the engine" ?
Well, anything from Euro 5 onwards will be taking most of the EGR from after the DPF so all of the carbon (soot) has been taken out. Prior to that; with great difficulty
 
Tarquers

Tarquers

Lifetime VIP Member
Messages
205
Location
Wrocław
Vehicle
T6 Beach 4Motion
Well, anything from Euro 5 onwards will be taking most of the EGR from after the DPF so all of the carbon (soot) has been taken out. Prior to that; with great difficulty
Am no expert but thought the DPF was introduced to handle the increase in particulate matter created by the EGR? Was under the impression that the EGR fed back in before the turbo?

Not doubting your knowledge but this is the first time I have heard this. trying to understand how the EGR manages to clog up if it is supplied with air from after the DPF?

Am no expert but thought the DPF was introduced to handle the increase in particulate matter created by the EGR? Was under the impression that the EGR fed back in before the turbo?

Not doubting your knowledge but this is the first time I have heard this. trying to understand how the EGR manages to clog up if it is supplied with air from after the DPF?
@rich11235 you sent me off for more research and seems I am wrong and right. Interested to know your views on the van Engines, but I found this reference:

“At high engine rpm or load, the visible high pressure EGR valve slowly closes and the system switches to the low pressure EGR.

The high pressure EGR gasses are taken before the turbo. The low pressure EGR gasses are tapped after the DPF, through a filter, a cooler, and then recycled back into the intake path right before the turbo.”

Still doesn’t change the situation that short journeys are bad I guess!
 
R

rich11235

VIP Member
Messages
35
Location
Sussex, UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
Am no expert but thought the DPF was introduced to handle the increase in particulate matter created by the EGR? Was under the impression that the EGR fed back in before the turbo?

Not doubting your knowledge but this is the first time I have heard this. trying to understand how the EGR manages to clog up if it is supplied with air from after the DPF?


@rich11235 you sent me off for more research and seems I am wrong and right. Interested to know your views on the van Engines, but I found this reference:

“At high engine rpm or load, the visible high pressure EGR valve slowly closes and the system switches to the low pressure EGR.

The high pressure EGR gasses are taken before the turbo. The low pressure EGR gasses are tapped after the DPF, through a filter, a cooler, and then recycled back into the intake path right before the turbo.”

Still doesn’t change the situation that short journeys are bad I guess!
I think you’ve found out the answer. And DPFs were brought in to reduce particulate (soot, smoke, mainly carbon) down to tiny levels (better than some petrol cars) not really connected to the use of EGR. For many diesel vehicles (and gasolines with GPF) there’s more particulate coming off the brakes and tyres than from the tailpipe. That’s why anyone who removes/deletes the DPF is an ar*e in my view
 
Vantastic2

Vantastic2

Messages
205
Location
S E Wales
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
In the 7 years of having our Cali i can say that if you do short journeys the DPF will come on . We had an unfortunate time visiting my Mum in Hospital. Diesels usually take around 4 miles to warm up to normal temp (90 deg), we were doing 5 mile round trip per day,7 days a wk for a while so engine cold on arrival ( and was Winter ) ! Then DPF came on, but don't worry a good blast on a duel carriage way following the vehicle manual did cleared it !
That was the only time i have seen this happen. If your not use to Diesels with DPF it is a bit of a shock when it 'burns' off the muck in filter, smells like a sort of burnt garden waste, rotten eggs smell?
 
Vantastic2

Vantastic2

Messages
205
Location
S E Wales
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Have the extended warranty chucked in, so hope for the best I guess. stop-start by the same token can’t help much, so I guess it’s wait and see. For me personally I would have chosen petrol if it was still an option. For that I will join @Borris on the naughty step no doubt!
No NO petrol with vans, Diesel has the ' torque ' for pulling power !
 
R

rich11235

VIP Member
Messages
35
Location
Sussex, UK
Vehicle
T5 SE 180
In the 7 years of having our Cali i can say that if you do short journeys the DPF will come on . We had an unfortunate time visiting my Mum in Hospital. Diesels usually take around 4 miles to warm up to normal temp (90 deg), we were doing 5 mile round trip per day,7 days a wk for a while so engine cold on arrival ( and was Winter ) ! Then DPF came on, but don't worry a good blast on a duel carriage way following the vehicle manual did cleared it !
That was the only time i have seen this happen. If your not use to Diesels with DPF it is a bit of a shock when it 'burns' off the muck in filter, smells like a sort of burnt garden waste, rotten eggs smell?
Vantastic, you describe exactly what potentially kills DPFs and EGR; lots of short journeys/low load. Shouldn’t really smell of eggs unless some sulphur’s got in somewhere from either the fuel or the oil. Pump diesel is ULS - were you using the right oil? (Needs to be low SAPS - low sulphur)
 

VW California Club

Top