What do you think of this alternative layout?

[2into1]

I want your thoughts on this. I know you are a biased audience, and the Cali suits your needs, but imagine if your needs were different...........



In my never ending search for my ideal van, I'm weighing up the pros and cons of something like this.

You'll note it has it's 3 travel seats upfront, which is sufficient for me (no seat belts in the back).

I'm following a lot of owners on social media and found myself drawn (probably a late mid life crisis) to vans like this:

All of these options are liberated by the need not to provide safe seating in the rear, which suits me.

I wondering about building my next van. Buying something nearly new, having a great roof fitted (SCA or Reimo £5k), adding side windows then having it insulated and lined (wall carpet...there I can say it....), with a couple of big leisure batteries and split charge under the twin folding seat, and a parking heater outlet and elec sockets under the driver's seat.

That then leaves me the rear of the van to play around with the rear interior. I'm cautious financially so if I fall out of love with it, it would easily sell on as a van ready to be fitted out with a choice of units and Rock n Roll bed, without taking a large hit.

So imagine you didn't need safe travelling seats in the back, imagine if you didn't need a German Uber / Grey corporate image because you don't use it for work - What would you do with a van?

Also interested in what you think the first of the practicalities of camping in the first layout? I think with a couple of extra slide outs, you could have a very flexible seating arrangement, and of course it all pulls out to make the double bed. Under the seats / beds is all storage.
I'd probably build it to work around my (existing) waeco compressor portable fridge, use those 'cartridge' type gas stoves, simple water tank you can take to the tap etc.

I'm aiming to get a better and more personalised camping experience, with a newish van that frankly won't carry some of the Cali baggage...roof rot....dealers who do more damage than good when fixing....ongoing worries of hydraulic roof outside of warranty.....failing water sensors etc.

 

[Hotel California]

The problem would be the weight i think .
Selfbuilding a camper needs special lightwieght material and not just plywood or MDF.
If i ever change to something else(read ...when i am old and have trouble getting in the pop-top) than a Cali , i think i would go in the van direction with a shower and a nice double bed .

 

[2into1]

The problem would be the weight i think .
Selfbuilding a camper needs special lightwieght material and not just plywood or MDF.
.

Thanks HC, although I'm not sure if the first layout would weigh in total as much as the Cali rear seat on its own! The second layout - you're are right!!

 

[amountainhigh]

Interesting thought - hadn't considered that the standard Cali layout is essentially based on the premise of having proper seat-belted rear passenger seat. I wonder how many others use their van for couples/solo only and could forgo the current rear seat? All third party conversions I've seen also seem to stick to the same basic layout with the fixed seat/bed. Think you could have fun with a blank canvas!

 

[Velma's Dad]

We'd be like you T4WFA, in that we could forgo the rear travelling seats as when we go Cali'ing there are just two of us (+ Cali Dog). I really like both those pictured layouts in principle, love the more flexible living space.

With the second layout, when the sliding door is open your kitchen area could 'spill out' onto an outside table with or without an awning etc. A bit like the way of things with the original VW campervans (not that we've ever owned a Splittie or Bay - except the Lego version).

I'd be a bit loathe to lose the direct access between front and rear areas of the van, although you could keep that on the first layout if you just had two seats up front instead of the three.

On both those layouts I guess you'd have the roof lifting the opposite way to a Cali, so you'd access the top bed from the rear of the van? Or were you thinking of sticking with a hightop?

 

[Max-Felix]

I think I know that van - I have pics of it saved somewhere - I know what you mean about the layout, this is a (sometimes ) narrow minded forum and there are viable alternatives out there, especially perhaps for the younger more chilled crowd.

I've put some similar pics in a public folder:

https://goo.gl/photos/7JS1dCsWJjUhtABk7

Problem with all self builds is it's one thing to do it on a shoestring (and brilliant if you're a living off grid, back packing, bumming round Europe 18 to 25 type) with an old van when young and carefree but doing it properly when you get a bit older and want reliability, a nice drive etc means a reliable, newish van + about £12k to put on a high spec roof, windows, lining, electrics, Smev etc - been there done it. In the end you've spent £30k and you still have a converted van with terrible residuals etc, etc.

 

[2into1]

Interesting thought - hadn't considered that the standard Cali layout is essentially based on the premise of having proper seat-belted rear passenger seat.

I think it has become more that way as the years have gone on......In Splitty and T2 days, no rear seat belts was the norm, and rear seats were just like your home sofa, so it was easier to be flexible and innovative. By the time we get to T5s, the seat you lounge and sleep on is essentially designed for safety in a crash.

I suspect not many of us sit at home on rock hard, automotive upholstered seats with headrests and seat belt buckles! Also we tend to sit next to each other, or on a L, rather than stare into each other's eyes all evening.

I understand that many do need 4 belted seats (or 5/6/7!), but that would be a very rare occurrence for me. When I was quoted £5k for a Reimo 333 Variotech seat, I flinched at spending that much on something not designed for the purpose I would use.

 

[2into1]

We'd be like you T4WFA, in that we could forgo the rear travelling seats as when we go Cali'ing there are just two of us (+ Cali Dog). I really like both those pictured layouts in principle, love the more flexible living space.

That's right. And captured in this photo from the photo Max-Felix offered

With the second layout, when the sliding door is open your kitchen area could 'spill out' onto an outside table with or without an awning etc.

I've always loved that on the early vans. Even a hinged table that opens to the outside could do. The size of the Cali door is of course designed to allow a Euro Pallet to be stacked, and is unnecessarily large for camper use.
Twin sliding doors also offers a better breeze, the chance to create a 'bar' etc.

 

[2into1]

I've put some similar pics in a public folder:
https://goo.gl/photos/7JS1dCsWJjUhtABk7

Thanks for these. I'd not come across https://www.stokedeversince.com/ before.

especially perhaps for the younger more chilled crowd.

Oh dear Better late than never!

In the end you've spent £30k and you still have a converted van with terrible residuals etc, etc.

You are right, but that's why I'd spend the money on the components that could retain the value like the van and the roof. I'd be prepared to write the interior off as it would be too personalised to expect others to pay up.
Mind you, a new van at £30k ish is still a good £25k cheaper than a new SE.....with the worries for long term ownership I mentioned in my first post. If the Cali option was 'worry free', I think I'd just take the easy 'standard' option and buy one.

 

[2into1]

On both those layouts I guess you'd have the roof lifting the opposite way to a Cali, so you'd access the top bed from the rear of the van? Or were you thinking of sticking with a hightop?

Well spotted. I have considered this and think for eventual resale reasons, I'd stick with a rear hinged roofs (ie like a Cali). I think a SWB van with front hinged roof would be hard to sell on.
Because the twin passenger seat folds forward (top picture), I think it would be manageable to sneak over that, and use the (forward facing) driver's seat to climb up to the top bed.
I could move the kitchen more towards the middle than the first photo shows to make it a little more useable.

My next van will have to be my 'only' vehicle (rather than my current specialised camper and large utilitarian car), so it will have to be a pop up top rather than a high / hard top.

 

[calimera]

Interesting layout & photos. Does look cosy & inviting. Difficult to achieve in the Cali but can be done.

We used to have a bongo ,which we had the internal inlay designed to our spec. We had a kitchen in the back boot ,so we could cook outside . The rear internal box seat similar to photos was uncomfortable & tricky to make into a bed.

We hired a motorhome & looked at various conversion. Hired a T5 Cali.

The flexibility of the moveable rear seat on the T5 Cali on the rail & the easy of making the bed & still having storage in the boot ,was one of the reason we have a T6 Cali . Being able to tilt the rear seat ,helps make it more comfortable.

Our T6 Cali is our main car ,replaced a BMW estate. It's just us & the dogs.
Like the large sliding door. leaving the boot open helps create a breeze,
The front seats are comfortable .

 

[WelshGas]

I like the 1st offering the best and as you said it could be personalised. Also, you don't necessarily need windows all round in the back, unless you actually need them. There are some nice, lightweight units available, but expensive and that is why not in common use. A very, nice bespoke vehicle can be had that suits your individual requirements, but at a price that will not be far short of a California.

 

[DM]

price that will not be far short of a California.

Yes. We looked at / priced up all sorts of conversion options before deciding on a Cali. Many worked out more expensive than our Ocean. And some of those were based upon used base vehicles.

 

[Stuart]

For us one of the biggest benefits of the Cali is the sliding rear bench, being able to travel with kids sitting close behind you like in a car.

If we didn't need the rear seats for travelling, I doubt I would have bought a Cali. More likely a panel van and built my own interior like the first photo.

 

[rod_vw]

Maybe my avatar says it all, I'm not a Cali owner, in fact I have built four LWH high top VW campers. One T4 and three T5s, now building a T6, each one has had...

• Reimo sliding rear seat/bed
• swivel front seats
• Eberspacher blown air heating with thermostatic control
• Waeco 54 litre compressor fridge
• SMEV hob, sink and grill
• recent ones have had a solar panel
• twin leisure batteries
• LED interior lighting
• insulation in the roof, sides and floor
• furniture made from light weight hard faced ply
• copious roof lockers
• underfloor water and waste tanks
• built in automatic inverter for one 240v socket
• four 240v sockets in the habitation area fed from the EHU
• Three 12v sockets in the habitation area

All have been built on either a new vehicle or an ex demonstrator. Many Cali ideas have been considered in the designs including the table being stored in the sliding door. The one positive about all of this is that any damaged parts can be replaced much more cheaply that those on a Cali.

Draw your own conclusions about the design and facilities but we like them!

Anyone interested in the 63 Reg one in the avatar is welcome to PM me as it will be for sale as soon as the T6 is ready to use.

Rod

 

[sidepod]

Not sure about the "country cottage" look.

Interesting thoughts about the rear bench seat driving the whole design.

It's good that you've owned and know the Cali, it's valuable Intel as a basis for a custom van.

For me, not having a bulkhead between van and cab is non negotiable. The swivel seat thing undoubtedly provides a sense of space.

Looking fwd to your build-vlog.

P.

Ps. Inst raspberry cognac delicious!

 

[Jay586]

Google M & P Interiors campervans, they do a lovely rustic look.

There seems to be a strong market for conversions, I certainly wouldn't be doing one if I thought the residuals were poor. Obv not Cali strong but nevertheless...

 

[rod_vw]

From the experience of self-building campers and subsequently selling them on I have not found any problem with the residual value although I don't take my construction time into account as I enjoy building a vehicle to match our expectations.

My attitude to the design and building is to produce a camper which meets our expectations for use in the first three years or so of its life but is so constructed to also meet the normally expected industry standards.and include as many high end fitments as possible. I don't go in for fancy finishes and expensive one-off parts as I always look towards producing a vehicle that will be economical to maintain in its later life. Having always converted 'new' vehicles I will readily admit that there is little if any financial savings BUT I do get exactly what my wife and I want.

We will be at Stanford Hall, those who know us can come and look at the '63 reg if they wish, those who don't can always PM me.

Rod