Wheel Removal

[californiakid]

Woke up early this morning, frosty but fine. Thought Cali coming up to 17 months old and almost 23000 miles.
I'll change the wheels round fronts to rear and vice versa, jack up and place axle stands and remove wheel bolts. Wheels seized solid to hubs and had to sledge hammer off after using WD 40. Corrosion like no tomorrow so cleaned up and applied copper slip. The moral of this being if I'd suffered a puncture there would be no chance of wheel removal and possibly calling VW emergency services would result in the same possibly leading to vehicle recovery and untold expense. All for the lack of some anti seize at production. Thanks VW...
Tread depths now 7mm to 8mm front and 5mm rears plus front outer and inner edges not feathered.

 

[T6 CFO]

Woke up early this morning, frosty but fine. Thought Cali coming up to 17 months old and almost 23000 miles.
I'll change the wheels round fronts to rear and vice versa, jack up and place axle stands and remove wheel bolts. Wheels seized solid to hubs and had to sledge hammer off after using WD 40. Corrosion like no tomorrow so cleaned up and applied copper slip. The moral of this being if I'd suffered a puncture there would be no chance of wheel removal and possibly calling VW emergency services would result in the same possibly leading to vehicle recovery and untold expense. All for the lack of some anti seize at production. Thanks VW...
Tread depths now 7mm to 8mm front and 5mm rears plus front outer and inner edges not feathered.

Good advice. Mine is still brand new but I picked up some copper slip and its sat in the Cali. I'll wait for a nice day and go find myself a nice flat spot and get it applied. Any advice on where. I presume just between the contact points between when and hub. I appreciate I've probably used up one of my daft questions but better safe than sorry.


Mike

 

[californiakid]

Good advice. Mine is still brand new but I picked up some copper slip and its sat in the Cali. I'll wait for a nice day and go find myself a nice flat spot and get it applied. Any advice on where. I presume just between the contact points between when and hub. I appreciate I've probably used up one of my daft questions but better safe than sorry.


Mike

Just a thin smear on the hub flange and the mating surface on the inner side of the wheel. As they say every little helps just don't go mad.

 

[T6 CFO]

Googled it and recommends between wheel and hub and on the bolts.
While I'm at it I will treat all the seals with the stuff I bought and thread lock the camping chairs.



Mike

 

[T6 CFO]

Just a thin smear on the hub flange and the mating surface on the inner side of the wheel. As they say every little helps just don't go mad.

Thanks


Mike

 

[Hotel California]

I change my steel wheels winter-summer and back myself so they come off pretty easy , always clean the hub with a brush or sandpaper and some copper spray.

Must say the alloys on the wife's Renault need more effort to come loose ...even had to use brutal force....

If the wheel don't come loose from the hub , put the bolts back in not thightend .
Then lower the jack putting some weight on the wheel , usually it is enough to come off without using a hammer and the risk of damage.

 

[kave]

I change twice a year between summer and winter tires and I now apply regular grease instead of copper paste inside the bolt holes, bolts and the hub.
In your case VW probably didn't fasten to proper tourque either but too much as all car shops does which makes it even worse.

 

[WelshGas]

Must be me, but wheels have been off annually and never any problems. I know many people advise and use Copper Grease but there is also a body of opinion against its use, and there are reasons manufacturers don't use it, and I've never had any reason to use it.

 

[SusiBus]

You must be lucky WelshGas, because like many owners, I found our wheels, really, really difficult to remove on our T5 when it was less than two years old. Definitely recommend the application of a little copper grease to the mating surfaces, rather than have the situation of a wheel needing changiing and refusing to come off.

I also apply a little to the thread on the wheel studs. I know this is not recommended because it can effect the toque setting when tightening, but I've done it ever since my rallying days way back in the 1960's and 70's, and I've never had a wheel become loose (yet)

 

[Jabberwocky]

Alloy wheels?

Dare I say......Aluminium, steel and water = corrosion? Sound familiar?

 

[DM]

Wonder how long it takes for the wheels to 'lock on'. I had two punctures last summer and they certainly came off easily enough then - at about 5 months old.

Think I'll take @WelshGas's advice and remove all the wheels annually.

 

[pjm-84]

It was my first problem with my Audi. Just after it had it first service. Took me ages to remove when I was stranded.

Had a puncture on the Cali and took the wheel off at home. Same problem. Old wire wheel hammer on the inside of the rim. Clean corrison on hub, copper grease, and refit.

Off for a service soon and I thought this was now a service item so will ask the question.

 

[Hotel California]

Must be me, but wheels have been off annually and never any problems. I know many people advise and use Copper Grease but there is also a body of opinion against its use, and there are reasons manufacturers don't use it, and I've never had any reason to use it.

For the record i am not spraying copperpaste on the wheelhub ....
Gently brush of corrosion and spray some copperpaste on a cloth and wipe the hub clean...

 

[sbmcd]

Wonder how long it takes for the wheels to 'lock on'. I had two punctures last summer and they certainly came off easily enough then - at about 5 months old.

Think I'll take @WelshGas's advice and remove all the wheels annually.

My wheels did not come off easily after 8 months only, no problem with summer / winter wheel changes now I use copperpaste grease. Both sets are alloys.

 

[ArunAlec]

Just spent the afternoon removing my wheels.They all came off with ease but to be safe I refitted with a smear of copper grease on the contact areas of the hub and wheel.

 

[briwy]

You should definitely NOT grease the bolts or the holes. The torque settings are for dry bolts. By all means clean/wire brush but no grease.

 

[californiakid]

Think you'll find torque settings are for a lightly lubricated thread. After 50 years in the motor trade l'll stick with what I know.

 

[Hotel California]

Think you'll find torque settings are for a lightly lubricated thread. After 50 years in the motor trade l'll stick with what I know.

Using a sledge hammer to take the wheel off ...?

 

[californiakid]

Yep pop into your local tyre fitment centre,bet they have one. Obviously use with care and only on the sidewall of the tyre.

 

[Hotel California]

Yep pop into your local tyre fitment centre,bet they have one. Obviously use with care and only on the sidewall of the tyre.

Agree , but they know (or supposed to know) what they are doing .
Would not reccomend anyone getting under theire verhicle trowing a sledgehammer ....i'd keep it safe.
Btw hitting hammers on alloys is never a good thing to do .
When doing my militairy service in Gemany we used the sledghammer almost every time changing wheels off a MAN lorry .
And you don't want to know how we managed to get the tyre from the wheel itself....without a machine ...only hands and crowbars . If there was a smartphone back than , that would make a fun movie.

 

[Meoncoast]

I had issues getting wheels off due to the alloy and the steal together think any fitter will tell you common with today's alloy wheels and issue on many make of car hence the heavy hammers in workshop. +1 for copper slip

 

[briwy]

Think you'll find torque settings are for a lightly lubricated thread. After 50 years in the motor trade l'll stick with what I know.

Perhaps this will help.

If a fastener or bolt is stated 'dry' torque then that is what it should be done,
When you apply a torque to a fastener. It, in effect puts the bolt under a specific preload/ tension.

The 'nuts and bolts' of it are :- If you apply torque to a bolt / fastener, you are essentially stretching or preloading the bolt. This is done to prevent the fastener from giving / relaxing too much and the nut/bolt from coming loose - or even worse, falling off.
The thing that the manufacturers work out for you is “how much preload do I need?” to stop my bolt releasing itself.

We use a basic rule for our industrial applications, this is usually based on a preload of 68% of the yield strength of the fastener.
This value was chosen because any given bolt/fastener has a 'proof load value' which is related to its material grade and diameter.
Proof load is usually 90 percent of the yield strength of the bolt / fastener.
This in effect guarantees that the bolt / fastener will not permanently yield or stretch.
If it were to do this, you loose your desired preload thus leaving the fastener to eventually fail or fall out.

This next bit is why the 'Dry figure' is important , you could easily assume why isn't the proof load level used for setting the preload of the fastener .
This is not done because of friction !!.
Ie - the coefficient of friction between a bolt threads and nut threads can vary tremendously.
The coefficients of friction can vary as much as +/-20% of the original nominal values.
So if a value close to the proof load (i.e. 80%) is used and the variance was in the suggested range (+/-20%) maybe for arguments sake around 18% , you could end up going close to or beyond the proof load and yielding the fastener, thus applying no preload.
It would still feel tight but would be stretched beyond its real capacity

Sorry for being so long winded , but the above is why you should know what effect the the coefficient of friction has on the nuts and bolts you use.
If the fasteners are dry they can normally vary the coefficient of friction from 0.15 to 0.25.
But if any sort of lubrication is used (ie.thread paste/ dry film lube/ WD-40), etc.), it will change the coefficient of friction quite a bit. 0.20 is used for the unlubed coefficient of friction and 0.09 for the lubed coefficient of friction. So As you can see the use of Lubrication in effect half the expected friction applied to the bolts / threads. ie its easier to tighten up, which unfortunately means you are possibly taking the bolt/ fastener threads past their design limit.

 

[Hotel California]

Oh boy this is getting very complicated....

I never had any issues only tighten wheelnuts by hand only using standard wheelnuttools .
Reading above makes me even more happy i do not have a torque wrench becose then i had to take notice of all that .
Now i just thighten by hand , afther first ride thighten again to check , life can be simple

 

[T6 CFO]

Always just done by hand but the Cali is going to get a slightly more technical tighten so 180Nm with a torque for me.


Mike

 

[briwy]

I agree Wim, 99% of the time tightening by hand is OK. I don't think many people carry a torque wrench around to tighten the bolts when they fit a spare.
However the actual process of wheel to hub isn't simple. The bolts provide a force between the wheel and the hub and it is actually friction between these two that takes the load, not the bolts. Not enough friction and wheel will rotate relative to the hub putting the bolts into shear which they are not there for. Extreme case is the bolts will shear and the wheel come off.
So presumably that raises the question of whether the face of the hub and wheel contact should be greased as that will no doubt reduce the friction between the two regardless of what load is put on the bolts.
Catch 22. Grease and reduce the friction or grease and make it so you can get your wheels off. General opinion seems to be to lightly grease ( with alloys, steels should be alright) so they come off OK.
I guess there is enough safety factor built in to take care of it. Hopefully
Whatever works for you.