EU Referendum - 23rd June - How will you vote?

[Kirk]

They have been discussing this on another forum I belong to and the replies have made some very intersting reading, I know you guys on here don't like 'off topic' chat very much but its worth a go?

 

[WelshGas]

Europe is a group of countries, including the UK. The operative word is " Countries".
We each have a democratically elected government.
Last time the UK was able to vote in a referendum it was to join the European Trade Area, not to join a European Federation run by an un-elected bureaucracy with their own agenda. So I'm OUT. Just my personal opinion.

 

[BerndRos]

Sadly, it will be a finger in the air to see how the wind is blowing and people will vote on that basis. None of us have the full facts at our disposal in order to make a decision and then vote accordingly.

So the outcome is pot luck really. But a democracy beats the alternative.

 

[aileron346]

Remain. It's not perfect but the EU has been a force for the good generally. The jobs and economic arguments are sound to me and I'm also convinced by the peace, security and unity arguments. We maybe need some more thinking about free movement of people although it's funny how people feel strongly about that now but didn't bat an eyelid when have our population was leaving for Spain, only rarely speaking the language. Finally, one look at the politicians supporting Brexit has me convinced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GrannyJen]

I am torn.

As an historian I am passionately in favour of a Europe that talks and shares rather than fights. As an old biddy I remember a bankrupt Britain begging to join the EEC. As a parent I remember trying to bring up my children with 25% inflation ravaging my household budget.

Sadly though I remember a Europe built on economic cooperation, it's roots in the coal and steel confederation designed to stop another European war, not a Europe built on an ever expanding gravy train for faceless bureaucrats eager to waive common sense and sound economic judgement in order to enlarge a bloated and unrepresentative Union of disparate states.

At the end of the day an isolated Britain sandwiched between the self interests of the USA AND China and without the trading clout of a European Union will be a very vulnerable place.

Signed ....

Miss indecisive of Sussex.

 

[DavidofHook]

For me:
It is the lack of democracy, we should be able to vote out any government who makes laws that we don't like, and we can't.
It is the incompetence, introducing the Euro, then allowing Greece and the others into the Euro and then Bosnia which went to hell in a handcart because the EU could not make a decision and the Americans had to act instead.
And, any organisation that has 5 yes, five presidents, cannot act and speak with one voice and hence it is untrustworthy.
And don't even mention a European army...............
So, I am out.

 

[Astronomy]

When I feel "European "... then I might vote for staying in.. Otherwise its out for me.

 

[Freeley]

To be honest i don't know whether I'm in or out! I suspect a considerable percentage of people will vote without too much of an idea about which is best for us, certainly I've got no idea.
Our marvellous politicians will say anything that suits their cause best and as a result I don't believe anything any of them says.
I suppose if I'm still unsure next month (which I will be!) then I'll probably stick with what I know so I'd be IN.
I suspect that enough will do the same to result in the IN vote winning.

Sent from my Galaxy S6

 

[Oliver]

Staying in for sure. We have a business with HQ in GB that services all of Europe. Leaving the EU will create a significant risk to our ability to freely trade, in turn this risks jobs. Good indicator of economic impact is the nose dive the £GBP took when the referendum was announced. This is a result of currency markets expecting the UK economy doing worse. We are planning a 3 months trip through Europe this year and for that I prefer a strong currency ....

 

[T6 CFO]

Would I vote to join.......No!

Would I vote to join the Euro.... Definitely No.

Would I vote to leave.....Not quite so sure.


On that basis I think we will stay in.

I shall therefore vote to leave on the basis that I think we will stay in but I can complain about everything on the basis that I voted out.

Joking


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[motacyclist]

I will probably vote in because I am not doing too badly out of it and neither are most people on here if they can afford a California.

I wonder if some of the Brexit campaigners are pursuing their own selfish interests and not the interests of the country. Some things need changing but the UK should be on the inside, not the outside, to achieve this.

Mrs Motacyclist, on the other hand, has different views.... but the grass is always greener.

I wonder what the views of our Continental friends on here are? May be glad to get rid of us, we've done nothing but moan since we joined!

 

[pjm-84]

I don't have the full facts and on that basis I would have to vote to stay in.

We've noticed a real down turn in enquiries this year (architecture) which has allowed us to take stock, catch our breath and invest in new BIM software. As a rough guess I would say we are down by about 80% which I strongly believe is related to the Brexit uncertainly.

Although we do have our workload for this year we are no longer looking to take anyone else on. (It also nice not doing 60hr weeks).

 

[briwy]

Sadly, it will be a finger in the air to see how the wind is blowing and people will vote on that basis. None of us have the full facts at our disposal in order to make a decision and then vote accordingly.

So the outcome is pot luck really. But a democracy beats the alternative.

The problem is that there are no facts. Only very differing opinions on what would happen if we leave. Personally I'm not at all sure that there should be a referendum. As Welsh Gas pointed out, we have a democratically (sort of) elected government who have been put in place to make the decisions so they should earn their keep and do just that instead of wimping out and asking us uninformed masses to do the job for them.

 

[hirsty]

No-one would argue the EU is perfect, I accept that it's a flawed set-up, but I believe we'd be screwed on our own in the new world of globalised economics & security. In my view we're better off having a strong voice inside a broader group, rather than trying to hold on to Empire levels of influence (without the financial clout to back it up).

The Churchillian references & general Little Englander level of discussion amongst the two campaigns shown in/on the news is making me sick - this is a lot bigger for all of us than a short-term party leadership squabble.

 

[Digger]

I just wish the politicians were honest and told us the truth. I do not want a EU superstate but would settle for a democratic reduced EU. It is getting too big and unaccountable and the thought of Turkey joining means it will become totally authoritarian.

 

[Californiaman]

My heart says out, head says in. I gave up trying to work out the pros and cons in general and decided to try and select three things that are important to ME and work out what the impact will be on those three things - I am still trying!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[T6 CFO]

My heart says out, head says in. I gave up trying to work out the pros and cons in general and decided to try and select three things that are important to ME and work out what the impact will be on those three things - I am still trying!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Agreed. My previous answer was rather flippant but I have in fact given it loads of thought. I follow local politics, U.K. Politics, EU politics, Wold Politics. Got loads of time to read and am utterly clueless on which way I'm going to vote. I'm not a great believer in referendums. So also still trying!

 

[Calicliff]

Who do you believe? Boris, (read his book on Churchill) or Cameron who only lets slip the truth when forced to and is now trying to use scare tactics?

 

[Amarillo]

In.

The benefits of the EU vastly outweigh the detriments.

Benefits: trade, single negotiating force, political clout
Detriments: loss of sovereignty in some areas

Both Britain and the EU are stronger with Britain part of the EU.

Both Norway and Switzerland have terms dictated to them by the EU without having a say in how the EU is run. Just look at how implementation of the 2014 Swiss referendum limiting the free movement of people would result in the Guillotine clause collapsing the other six Bilateral I agreements*.

I would rather have terms dictated to me by a club I belong to than a club I do not belong to.

*https://www.eda.admin.ch/dea/en/home/europapolitik/ueberblick/bilaterale-1.html

 

[hirsty]

Who do you believe? Boris, (read his book on Churchill) or Cameron who only lets slip the truth when forced to and is now trying to use scare tactics?

I think it's a far bigger issue than either of these (temporary) self-interested politicians, I think it has to be a referendum as it's such a big question and goes across party politics.

An interesting angle that I'd not considered was the notion that if we were to exit then the whole thing may fragment & fall apart and have to be put together again in a new way - but seems like a long-shot! I was personally happier with a smaller, and genuinely European, trading block with common standards agreed & free movement, but we are where we are.

Genuinely concerned about our 'place in the world' if we end up rattling around on our own up against EU / US / China sized pacts.

 

[Digger]

In.

The benefits of the EU vastly outweigh the detriments.

Benefits: trade, single negotiating force, political clout
Detriments: loss of sovereignty in some areas

Both Britain and the EU are stronger with Britain part of the EU.

Both Norway and Switzerland have terms dictated to them by the EU without having a say in how the EU is run. Just look at how implementation of the 2014 Swiss referendum limiting the free movement of people would result in the Guillotine clause collapsing the other six Bilateral I agreements*.

I would rather have terms dictated to me by a club I belong to than a club I do not belong to.

*https://www.eda.admin.ch/dea/en/home/europapolitik/ueberblick/bilaterale-1.html

Remember it is not a club and has little respect for our right to exclude interference. I believe in a reduced EU not a Superstate and the right to control borders when required. Personally from experience I seen no real benefits as things are developing but I also believe it will have to restructure and reform or it will collapse. My friends in Germany also wish it to reform as a reduced Union with limited powers. It was after all sold to us as a trading organisation and that I totally support.

 

[AlanC]

A great thread.

Although the stuff that is being spouted by the politicians now is just a slanging match, I am in.

The EU has given us so much that is good.
For the working person the Working Time Directive which limits hours and provides annual paid holidays as a right, ease of travel throughout the EU, ability to live anywhere in the EU freely and still get most of the UK benefits we have paid into, to name just a few.

I ran a small company some years ago importing equipment to and from Germany, France, Norway and America to name a few. This was easy within the EU, but outside the EU it was so much harder.

Better to be in, affecting and influencing changes rather than outside complaining about things we can never change.

Alan

 

[Tetley2]

When the referendum was announced my mind was made up to vote to leave.
The "In Campaign" group despite all the scare tactics and so called reforms have done nothing to change my mind. Just my view.

 

[TwoDogs]

why do the Leave campaign refer to anything that the Stay campaign say as "scare tactics"? The fact is no-one has a clue what will happen if we leave, whereas we know where we are if we stay...and we might be able to influence the way the EU evolves.
I believe the phrase is "bettter to be inside the tent p!ssing out, than outside p!ssing in".......

 

[jts46]

Do you want to live in a superstate? Look at what Mons ( I think that was is name) proposed in 1923.
Superstate
European police force.
Inter grated armed forces.
Etc. Etc.