Something strange going on with leisure batteries

[icic]

Something strange is going on with the readout of the leisure battery, which might be the batteries or how they are reading

I picked up then van from its 1st service at the dealer, a few days later (the first time I drove it since I picked it up) I noticed the battery was on 30%. The fridge has been on for a couple of days but we have 2 of rogers solar panels (which normally will handle that, plus it had been sunny for days) when I started driving this drooped to 20% within a couple of minutes (see pictures). Then set off on a 2 hour drive, this went up to 30% but no more. Over night the van was plugged into the mains, again did not go above 30%. Drove back for 2 hours again stayed on 30%. Today checked it 3 days after the drive its saying 20% with nothing switched on in the van

Any ideas what might be going on and are my batteries shot ? They seemed fine a couple of weeks ago, might it be connected to the service ( they did a replace a leaking fuel pump as well as the service)

Here is a readout of the control panel plus from the solar app, both taken at the weekend when the drive was done

 

[icic]

Just a thought, we are booked on a ferry next week for half term, don't want to cancel over batteries, it maybe that the battery issue is a warranty issue, the van is under 3 years old and we had new batteries put in last year under warranty, so that are only a year old.

I might look at putting in some non VW batteries for our trip, as I expect I won't be able to get a appointment at the dealer in time (last time I looked they had a 6 week wait time) plus the rule they have about not letting you have the van back until any new parts are fitted even if there is no part, again makes me worry about affecting our holiday.

with this all in mind are there any recommendations for batteries ? I saw these are they any good ?

Varta LA80 Dual Purpose AGM Leisure Battery

Varta LA80 Dual Purpose AGM Leisure Battery product brought to you by BMS Technologies LTD Offering free next working day delivery.

www.batterymegastore.co.uk

any other recommendations would be great

Its very strange why they are showing 20-30% and won't charge when the voltage is 13.7

 

[icic]

I just checked the panel again the G symbol and the plug symbol are alternatively flashing between each other, this happens both if the engine is on or if the engine and ignition are off, this can't be right is it ? so getting new batteries might not fix the issue ?I am worried if we go away to France next week with this issue, that we risk the van or even the roof opening fridge etc, even if we are on hook up, if anyone could help it would be amazing hopefully won't have to cancel our trip... thank you

 

[WelshGas]

I just checked the panel again the G symbol and the plug symbol are alternatively flashing between each other, this happens both if the engine is on or if the engine and ignition are off, this can't be right is it ? so getting new batteries might not fix the issue ? if anyone could help it would be amazing ... thank you

It sounds as if it could be something to do with the Split Charge relay.
you say you are still in warranty, but the garage can’t see you for 6 weeks.

Try phoning VW Assistance. It is run by the AA, but insist on a VW Assistance technician. Tell them you have concerns about driving with this problem and damaging the Leisure Electrical System. They carry specialist VW diagnostic equipment , can fix such things if possible but also have Priority access to the Dealerships, like the same day, no 6 week wait.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Get a copy of the solar install instructions. Retrace the wiring for the solar. Sounds like the dealer might have misplaced a wire during the service.

 

[icic]

Ok will do, strange if they did effect the wires, they did no internal work on the van

 

[icic]

It sounds as if it could be something to do with the Split Charge relay.
you say you are still in warranty, but the garage can’t see you for 6 weeks.

Try phoning VW Assistance. It is run by the AA, but insist on a VW Assistance technician. Tell them you have concerns about driving with this problem and damaging the Leisure Electrical System. They carry specialist VW diagnostic equipment , can fix such things if possible but also have Priority access to the Dealerships, like the same day, no 6 week wait.

It sounds as if it could be something to do with the Split Charge relay.
you say you are still in warranty, but the garage can’t see you for 6 weeks.

Try phoning VW Assistance. It is run by the AA, but insist on a VW Assistance technician. Tell them you have concerns about driving with this problem and damaging the Leisure Electrical System. They carry specialist VW diagnostic equipment , can fix such things if possible but also have Priority access to the Dealerships, like the same day, no 6 week wait.

Thank you thats really good to know, I will call them tomorrow, when I search its called roadside assistance is that correct ? is it free if we are still under warranty ?

Also we where planning to go away this Weeknd as well but go on hook up at the campsite to get around the battery issue, do we risk damaging the van if we do that ?

 

[WelshGas]

Thank you thats really good to know, I will call them tomorrow, when I search its called roadside assistance is that correct ? is it free if we are still under warranty ?

Also we where planning to go away this Weeknd as well but go on hook up at the campsite to get around the battery issue, do we risk damaging the van if we do that ?

VW Assistance is free during the 3 yr warranty period.

 

[icic]

VW Assistance is free during the 3 yr warranty period.

Thank you, I will try that in the morning.

 

[icic]

Thank you thats really good to know, I will call them tomorrow, when I search its called roadside assistance is that correct ? is it free if we are still under warranty ?

Also we where planning to go away this Weeknd as well but go on hook up at the campsite to get around the battery issue, do we risk damaging the van if we do that ?

by the way is it difficult to change the relay myself ? if not where do you buy them from

 

[yossarian]

Get a copy of the solar install instructions. Retrace the wiring for the solar. Sounds like the dealer might have misplaced a wire during the service.

Particularly, look at the negative wire and where it's attached in relation to the shunt.

 

[icic]

Particularly, look at the negative wire and where it's attached in relation to the shunt.

Can I ask what a shunt is and where it is

 

[yossarian]

Can I ask what a shunt is and where it is

On the T6 VW installed a current sensor on the leisure battery bank and integrates (in the calculus sense) the result to provide you the xx % battery charge indication. In crude terms if the sensor system sees 15A going into that battery for an hour it will show an increase the charge level by 10% or 20%. (20% on the T6.1 -- I'm not sure on the T6)

Conversely if current is supplied to the battery that the sensor does not see, either due to miswiring or a high resistance in the sense circuit you, will see erroneous battery readings. Resistance faults are usually high resistance and typically manifest as overeadings of current. This does not look like your problem.

In your case we can see a voltage that suggests your batteries are at a high state of charge but a control panel reading that conflicts with this. This is common fault with miswiring of some description. It's common in a solar setup when the solar charger charges that batteries directly instead of via the shunt.

For more info including location have a look here or use the search function: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/resources/earth-shunt-repair-guide.39/

There are many searchable accounts on the forum of people bypassing the shunt with their solar charger. Have a quick search.

 

[icic]

On the T6 VW installed a current sensor on the leisure battery bank and integrates (in the calculus sense) the result to provide you the xx % battery charge indication. In crude terms if the sensor system sees 15A going into that battery for an hour it will show an increase the charge level by 10% or 20%. (20% on the T6.1 -- I'm not sure on the T6)

Conversely if current is supplied to the battery that the sensor does not see, either due to miswiring or a high resistance in the sense circuit you, will see erroneous battery readings. Resistance faults are usually high resistance and typically manifest as overeadings of current. This does not look like your problem.

In your case we can see a voltage that suggests your batteries are at a high state of charge but a control panel reading that conflicts with this. This is common fault with miswiring of some description. It's common in a solar setup when the solar charger charges that batteries directly instead of via the shunt.

For more info including location have a look here or use the search function: https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/resources/earth-shunt-repair-guide.39/

There are many searchable accounts on the forum of people bypassing the shunt with their solar charger. Have a quick search.

Thank you, so its possible my batteries are fine and charging from the solar power? but not reflecting in the control panel. could this mean they are charging when driving and on hook up as well, is this all to do with the shunt ?

 

[KGCali]

Your solar readings all look fine and indicate the solar panels are charging your batteries in bulk and float mode as they should so it suggests the fault is elsewhere.
Basic steps to check...
1. Have you reset the control panel?
Post in thread 'Help with control panel warning symbol' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/help-with-control-panel-warning-symbol.19386/post-221713
2. Check the internal battery charger 'kettle type' lead is full pushed in and the small fuse in the battery charger is OK. The battery charger is mounted above your rear leisure battery (under the fridge on the T5 SE). The is also a green 30A fuse under the passenger seat for the battery charger.
Post in thread 'Location of mains powered battery charger fuse' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...owered-battery-charger-fuse.23143/post-265939
3. Check the cube fuse on the rear leisure battery is ok using a multimeter buzzer or voltage reading, the voltage should be the same either side of the cube fuse.
Post in thread 'Are my leisure batteries dead?' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/are-my-leisure-batteries-dead.38860/post-488278
4. Check the Split charge Relay is operating and fuses are ok
Thread 'Split charging relay question' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/split-charging-relay-question.29099/
5. Check the earth shunt but usually OK on the T6.

 

[Roger Donoghue]

All excellent advice above.

I'd also check the cube fuse. The solar is showing the batteries max at over 14v each day which means full WHEN CHARGING. Then, they settle to 12.6v minimum, which means they are not even sagging with the fridge on (is it on?) below full-rest voltage. I'd expect to see it drop below 12.2v min with a fridge on overnight.

I see you are generating over 100w max some days which means you must be using power from the batts. Otherwise they'd max at around 20w each day on a float charge. (This contradicts what I'm going to post below, which is the confusing but, unless you have additional items connected to the rear battery, like a WiFi station, it tracker etc)

A symptom of a blown cube fuse is full rear battery on the solar charger but low front battery, which all the appliances hang off, which sounds like your situation.

The G symbol stuff may be a symptom of a flat front battery ? (A guess).

The solar cabling on yours with simply be two wires direct to the rear battery. On newer vans 6.1 onwards, the negative goes to chassis earth using the battery clamp bolt that is at the bottom front of the battery.

 

[icic]

All excellent advice above.

I'd also check the cube fuse. The solar is showing the batteries max at over 14v each day which means full WHEN CHARGING. Then, they settle to 12.6v minimum, which means they are not even sagging with the fridge on (is it on?) below full-rest voltage. I'd expect to see it drop below 12.2v min with a fridge on overnight.

I see you are generating over 100w max some days which means you must be using power from the batts. Otherwise they'd max at around 20w each day on a float charge. (This contradicts what I'm going to post below, which is the confusing but, unless you have additional items connected to the rear battery, like a WiFi station, it tracker etc)

A symptom of a blown cube fuse is full rear battery on the solar charger but low front battery, which all the appliances hang off, which sounds like your situation.

The G symbol stuff may be a symptom of a flat front battery ? (A guess).

The solar cabling on yours with simply be two wires direct to the rear battery. On newer vans 6.1 onwards, the negative goes to chassis earth using the battery clamp bolt that is at the bottom front of the battery.

Yes the fridge was on with the reading I sent, its now been off for a few days. I will check the cube fuse. I am confused about a few things in regards if the batteries are still usable, is it that they are being charged via the solar panels and holding charge but the reading is wrong or are the charging but not holding charge, are they usable ? and if things should be OK on hook up, we are going on holiday next week and hope we can have access to some power so

1. Can we still get power from a hook up and is it safe
2. Will the fridge still run and work when driving and with the batteries
3 . Do I risk damaging the whole system with a hook up or any battery use while away
4 . What might I need to do or expect if we do go away
5. When this is fixed are the batteries likely to be shot and should I claim new ones under warranty

Thank you so much

 

[KGCali]

If your internal battery charger is not working then hook up won't work so follow my points above to check them and report back

 

[yossarian]

This post #15 is very well organised:. I'd approach it as suggested.
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...g-on-with-leisure-batteries.44728/post-580350

 

[Roger Donoghue]

What I can tell you is the Victron charger IS telling you the truth. That might be the truth about the rear battery only (if the cube fuse is blown). Your rear battery is most definitley NOT shot and is in rude health.

It may be that the cube fuse is blown, and the solar is only charging the rear battery, and the VW display panel is showing the voltage from the front battery.

Much more than that I can't help you with as I'm not an expert on the VW wiring regarding hookup charging etc. I don't even know IF the cube fuse is blown, and IF the VW display panel is reporting the truth. What I can tell you is the solar is working A-OK.

As above, follow Post 15 as a great start.

 

[icic]

Your solar readings all look fine and indicate the solar panels are charging your batteries in bulk and float mode as they should so it suggests the fault is elsewhere.
Basic steps to check...
1. Have you reset the control panel?
Post in thread 'Help with control panel warning symbol' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/help-with-control-panel-warning-symbol.19386/post-221713
2. Check the internal battery charger 'kettle type' lead is full pushed in and the small fuse in the battery charger is OK. The battery charger is mounted above your rear leisure battery (under the fridge on the T5 SE). The is also a green 30A fuse under the passenger seat for the battery charger.
Post in thread 'Location of mains powered battery charger fuse' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/thread...owered-battery-charger-fuse.23143/post-265939
3. Check the cube fuse on the rear leisure battery is ok using a multimeter buzzer or voltage reading, the voltage should be the same either side of the cube fuse.
Post in thread 'Are my leisure batteries dead?' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/are-my-leisure-batteries-dead.38860/post-488278
4. Check the Split charge Relay is operating and fuses are ok
Thread 'Split charging relay question' https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/split-charging-relay-question.29099/
5. Check the earth shunt but usually OK on the T6.

This is amazing, and thank you for all the past posts to read through, very helpful, I will work my way through the list

 

[icic]

So an update, I reset the control panel and it seems to have fixed the issue, back at 100% and the G showing when the engine is on, I feel a bit of a numpty that I didn't do that before, but I know now to always try that first. I can't thank you all enough for all the great advice, and hopefully the whole post will serve someone else when they have an issue

 

[Roger Donoghue]

Good to hear it, and well done KGCali.

 

[yossarian]

So an update, I reset the control panel and it seems to have fixed the issue, back at 100% and the G showing when the engine is on, I feel a bit of a numpty that I didn't do that before, but I know now to always try that first. I can't thank you all enough for all the great advice, and hopefully the whole post will serve someone else when they have an issue

This is good -- your problem may return if there is a fault with the battery capacity sensing or some issue causing the system to misread. If it does it will be easier to diagnose.

 

[icic]

Update, It dropped from 100% to 90% when I looked about an hour after I reset it with nothing drawing power, its been stable at 90% all afternoon, is this a sign there may still be a problem ? or is it normal after a reset