Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Viktorgeorge]

No one has ever said the fabric itself leaks water. In fact the hydrostatic head of the double skinned fabric is several times better than the one it replaced. The issue has is only with the seams and capillary action through the stitches.

You have missed my point. I am not suggesting the fabric “leaks water”. I am saying it holds water.

A watering can does not leak, but water comes out of the spout. Think of the seams as a spout, that is my point.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I had mine changed last October to 06 first time out in wet conditions in Cornwall and they leaked, I applied 2 full cans of Aquatex giving it 3 coats in total will report back next time Iam camping in heavy rain

My academic interest will look forward to your report @Jw155 following heavy rain: wondering if your 3 coated fabric is more surface repellant (so no or little heavier in rain than in its dry condition) and if the seams act any differently as a result.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

What puzzles me is why affected owners do not treat the whole area with Aquatex sufficient to render it more water repellant, can anyone explain what I am missing?

Well, nothing is guaranteed with these bellows.

I've had two 03S originally, replaced with a third 03S and that's been watertight over 18 months of very heavy usage in horrendous conditions.

The issues are mainly seam related and there's a question over how good Aquatex might be in all situations.

You may also need to re-apply it annually.

The pictures @Neuromancer11 posted are awful. I wouldn't be attempting to Aquatex that. The 06S version have a lot of extremely good upgrades - seam tapes, sealing tapes etc - and there are very, very few 06S bellows reported leaking. If you go back to 03S and 04S it was probably most out of the factory but for some bizarre reason, large numbers of Cali owners don't seem to use the pop-top in the rain and hence find problems way down the line - like this poster.

I'm expecting at some point my 03S bellows will leak and if VW won't play ball, I'll get 06S one installed (about 1k). But I absolutely want a van which is watertight and where I'm not faffing around with covers!!!

 

[Up10]

First time with my 04S in the rain with some wind, normally use a rainbow screen cover, so not really been tested in over a year, and yep it leaks

Nice little puddle to mop up in the corner

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Testing in storms in Germany this week and we have identical leaks and photos!
I wonder if it is a design issue rather than a material malfunction?
Our old Reimo pop top had a clear plastic window at the front and never leaked. We even had daylight on the wettest of days without ingress of water.
However, our 06s replaced last October leaks like @Neuromancer11 indicated. I figure the rain collects in the seam of the external flyscreen and the easiest drainage is through the lower seam to the inside of the van.
Maybe VW should redesign the fly screen to be a clear window at the front and take a lesson from Reimo. After all, the whole front section opens for those bright sunny and non precipitous days.

 

[Neuromancer11]

yes its a pretty poor situation to be in, even more frustratingly i emailed the pics to Breeze in Pool over a week ago and haven't had the courtesy of a response, which marries up with my previous comment on this forum that Breeze are great from a pre-sales perspective, but post-sales, not so much

 

[Corradobrit]

I thought Breeze were the preferred dealers, especially for bellows. Eurovans are the ones that have a bad rep. I wonder what changed at Breeze?

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

Testing in storms in Germany this week and we have identical leaks and photos!
I wonder if it is a design issue rather than a material malfunction?
Our old Reimo pop top had a clear plastic window at the front and never leaked. We even had daylight on the wettest of days without ingress of water.
However, our 06s replaced last October leaks like @Neuromancer11 indicated. I figure the rain collects in the seam of the external flyscreen and the easiest drainage is through the lower seam to the inside of the van.
Maybe VW should redesign the fly screen to be a clear window at the front and take a lesson from Reimo. After all, the whole front section opens for those bright sunny and non precipitous days.

I’ve a 04S bellows and have Aquatexed the seams. I’m generally content with the level of water proofing it provides but on our most recent trip to N Spain it started leaking in the same place as the recent photos during heavy rain which saturated the rain facing front canvas. As an experiment, I stretched a layer of cling film (all I had to hand) over the front window area. It did seem to work and gave me the idea when I have time to fashion 3 x plastic windows that can be zipped into the openings if it’s raining heavily. I appreciate the water will run into the bottom seam but it would stop the are becoming waterlogged. I know some people will say that you shouldn’t have to do this with a £70k vehicle, but the problem is that VW don’t claim it to be 100% waterproof and if this was the aim of the bellows they wouldn’t contain all the windows and zip out panels they do which are of greater benefit when the weathers fine.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I’ve a 04S bellows and have Aquatexed the seams. I’m generally content with the level of water proofing it provides but on our most recent trip to N Spain it started leaking in the same place as the recent photos during heavy rain which saturated the rain facing front canvas. As an experiment, I stretched a layer of cling film (all I had to hand) over the front window area. It did seem to work and gave me the idea when I have time to fashion 3 x plastic windows that can be zipped into the openings if it’s raining heavily. I appreciate the water will run into the bottom seam but it would stop the are becoming waterlogged. I know some people will say that you shouldn’t have to do this with a £70k vehicle, but the problem is that VW don’t claim it to be 100% waterproof and if this was the aim of the bellows they wouldn’t contain all the windows and zip out panels they do which are of greater benefit when the weathers fine.

As per my posts #4451&2, I really doubt treating just the seams is the solution.

I look forward to hearing whether @Jw155 - or another forum members - as per #4449, has success with a full fabric treatment.

 

[Jw155]

Going to Italy on the 17th June for 18 nights , Iam sure my bellows will get a good test after 3 coats of aquatex and will report back

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

As per my posts #4451&2, I really doubt treating just the seams is the solution.

I look forward to hearing whether @Jw155 - or another forum members - as per #4449, has success with a a full fabric treatment.

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

 

[Kayleigh]

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

Does the new Cali have the same fabric?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

The overwhelming experience on this board and caliboard in Germany is that 06S is totally watertight. There are clearly exceptions. As someone who has been hit with this and involved since day 1 they appear few and far between on version 06S compared to earlier ones.

Our current 03S bellows, replaced several times, are currently 100pct watertight.

The improvements for each version are well documented so I would expect any none 06S bellows to be replaced without too much fuss.

The 06S pictures seen earlier, again I would expect VW to replace.

If I had leaking bellows like the last photos, if VW didn't play ball, I'd have someone like Kernow transporters replace them (about a grand) and I'd see VW in court.

These are 80k vehicles and the fact that VW has produced six versions without really testing any one is an utter disgrace.