Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

[Viktorgeorge]

No one has ever said the fabric itself leaks water. In fact the hydrostatic head of the double skinned fabric is several times better than the one it replaced. The issue has is only with the seams and capillary action through the stitches.

You have missed my point. I am not suggesting the fabric “leaks water”. I am saying it holds water.

A watering can does not leak, but water comes out of the spout. Think of the seams as a spout, that is my point.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I had mine changed last October to 06 first time out in wet conditions in Cornwall and they leaked, I applied 2 full cans of Aquatex giving it 3 coats in total will report back next time Iam camping in heavy rain

My academic interest will look forward to your report @Jw155 following heavy rain: wondering if your 3 coated fabric is more surface repellant (so no or little heavier in rain than in its dry condition) and if the seams act any differently as a result.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

What puzzles me is why affected owners do not treat the whole area with Aquatex sufficient to render it more water repellant, can anyone explain what I am missing?

Well, nothing is guaranteed with these bellows.

I've had two 03S originally, replaced with a third 03S and that's been watertight over 18 months of very heavy usage in horrendous conditions.

The issues are mainly seam related and there's a question over how good Aquatex might be in all situations.

You may also need to re-apply it annually.

The pictures @Neuromancer11 posted are awful. I wouldn't be attempting to Aquatex that. The 06S version have a lot of extremely good upgrades - seam tapes, sealing tapes etc - and there are very, very few 06S bellows reported leaking. If you go back to 03S and 04S it was probably most out of the factory but for some bizarre reason, large numbers of Cali owners don't seem to use the pop-top in the rain and hence find problems way down the line - like this poster.

I'm expecting at some point my 03S bellows will leak and if VW won't play ball, I'll get 06S one installed (about 1k). But I absolutely want a van which is watertight and where I'm not faffing around with covers!!!

 

[Up10]

First time with my 04S in the rain with some wind, normally use a rainbow screen cover, so not really been tested in over a year, and yep it leaks

Nice little puddle to mop up in the corner

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Testing in storms in Germany this week and we have identical leaks and photos!
I wonder if it is a design issue rather than a material malfunction?
Our old Reimo pop top had a clear plastic window at the front and never leaked. We even had daylight on the wettest of days without ingress of water.
However, our 06s replaced last October leaks like @Neuromancer11 indicated. I figure the rain collects in the seam of the external flyscreen and the easiest drainage is through the lower seam to the inside of the van.
Maybe VW should redesign the fly screen to be a clear window at the front and take a lesson from Reimo. After all, the whole front section opens for those bright sunny and non precipitous days.

 

[Neuromancer11]

yes its a pretty poor situation to be in, even more frustratingly i emailed the pics to Breeze in Pool over a week ago and haven't had the courtesy of a response, which marries up with my previous comment on this forum that Breeze are great from a pre-sales perspective, but post-sales, not so much

 

[Corradobrit]

I thought Breeze were the preferred dealers, especially for bellows. Eurovans are the ones that have a bad rep. I wonder what changed at Breeze?

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

Testing in storms in Germany this week and we have identical leaks and photos!
I wonder if it is a design issue rather than a material malfunction?
Our old Reimo pop top had a clear plastic window at the front and never leaked. We even had daylight on the wettest of days without ingress of water.
However, our 06s replaced last October leaks like @Neuromancer11 indicated. I figure the rain collects in the seam of the external flyscreen and the easiest drainage is through the lower seam to the inside of the van.
Maybe VW should redesign the fly screen to be a clear window at the front and take a lesson from Reimo. After all, the whole front section opens for those bright sunny and non precipitous days.

I’ve a 04S bellows and have Aquatexed the seams. I’m generally content with the level of water proofing it provides but on our most recent trip to N Spain it started leaking in the same place as the recent photos during heavy rain which saturated the rain facing front canvas. As an experiment, I stretched a layer of cling film (all I had to hand) over the front window area. It did seem to work and gave me the idea when I have time to fashion 3 x plastic windows that can be zipped into the openings if it’s raining heavily. I appreciate the water will run into the bottom seam but it would stop the are becoming waterlogged. I know some people will say that you shouldn’t have to do this with a £70k vehicle, but the problem is that VW don’t claim it to be 100% waterproof and if this was the aim of the bellows they wouldn’t contain all the windows and zip out panels they do which are of greater benefit when the weathers fine.

 

[Viktorgeorge]

I’ve a 04S bellows and have Aquatexed the seams. I’m generally content with the level of water proofing it provides but on our most recent trip to N Spain it started leaking in the same place as the recent photos during heavy rain which saturated the rain facing front canvas. As an experiment, I stretched a layer of cling film (all I had to hand) over the front window area. It did seem to work and gave me the idea when I have time to fashion 3 x plastic windows that can be zipped into the openings if it’s raining heavily. I appreciate the water will run into the bottom seam but it would stop the are becoming waterlogged. I know some people will say that you shouldn’t have to do this with a £70k vehicle, but the problem is that VW don’t claim it to be 100% waterproof and if this was the aim of the bellows they wouldn’t contain all the windows and zip out panels they do which are of greater benefit when the weathers fine.

As per my posts #4451&2, I really doubt treating just the seams is the solution.

I look forward to hearing whether @Jw155 - or another forum members - as per #4449, has success with a full fabric treatment.

 

[Jw155]

Going to Italy on the 17th June for 18 nights , Iam sure my bellows will get a good test after 3 coats of aquatex and will report back

 

[Blackbrogue1962]

As per my posts #4451&2, I really doubt treating just the seams is the solution.

I look forward to hearing whether @Jw155 - or another forum members - as per #4449, has success with a a full fabric treatment.

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

 

[Kayleigh]

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

Does the new Cali have the same fabric?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

My conclusion is that the revised bellows (03S onwards) will never be fully waterproof under all conditions as VW make clear in their guidance notes. The technical info in the latest VW California app states the fabric has a rating of >=300mm, which is much less than any equivalent tent fabric. Consequently, my approach has been to ‘enhance’ the weather proofing accepting the only way to make it totally waterproof is to use a topper or wrap. The existence and use of such items pre-dates the 03S bellows.

The overwhelming experience on this board and caliboard in Germany is that 06S is totally watertight. There are clearly exceptions. As someone who has been hit with this and involved since day 1 they appear few and far between on version 06S compared to earlier ones.

Our current 03S bellows, replaced several times, are currently 100pct watertight.

The improvements for each version are well documented so I would expect any none 06S bellows to be replaced without too much fuss.

The 06S pictures seen earlier, again I would expect VW to replace.

If I had leaking bellows like the last photos, if VW didn't play ball, I'd have someone like Kernow transporters replace them (about a grand) and I'd see VW in court.

These are 80k vehicles and the fact that VW has produced six versions without really testing any one is an utter disgrace.

 

[CharlieBoy]

We bought a 74 plate California Ocean T6.1 October 2024 (pre-registered low delivery mileage @51 miles) but I think it was made late 23 or early 24. New to camping of any sort at 72 so spent until May researching and buying bits and booking trips. May Shrewsbury for a week used roof bed, very cold but comfy. Put roof down as it still hadn’t rained on penultimate day and used roller bed last night. Been on a few trips since using downstairs bed including last week South Wales where pretty windy so stuck to downstairs. South Devon now; decided to test the top again as not too windy and nice couple of days so perfect. Rained substantially last night (not torrential but permanent) for twelve hours). Big puddle on upper bulkhead; lots of kitchen roll later, found this research thread so thought I’d add to bring up to date; add a little and ask questions. Nearly all my rain has come through the front half moon panel and run down onto the bulkhead puddling (photo shows several run stains that may be drying). A pretty bad drip was coming through the near side corner seam (when rained lessened went out to see that side had more rain attached than the offside so a bit of driven through wind I suppose). Video attached showing drip and latest puddle. Anyone having any sensible conversations with VW or Dealerships at this juncture please. Our Campervan has a five everything guarantee by the way so I have no concerns other than having the aggravation of talking to a group of people that can’t or don’t want to engage in customer service or satisfaction. Many thanks to you all.

 

[CharlieBoy]

We bought a 74 plate California Ocean T6.1 October 2024 (pre-registered low delivery mileage @51 miles) but I think it was made late 23 or early 24. New to camping of any sort at 72 so spent until May researching and buying bits and booking trips. May Shrewsbury for a week used roof bed, very cold but comfy. Put roof down as it still hadn’t rained on penultimate day and used roller bed last night. Been on a few trips since using downstairs bed including last week South Wales where pretty windy so stuck to downstairs. South Devon now; decided to test the top again as not too windy and nice couple of days so perfect. Rained substantially last night (not torrential but permanent) for twelve hours). Big puddle on upper bulkhead; lots of kitchen roll later, found this research thread so thought I’d add to bring up to date; add a little and ask questions. All my rain

 

[Betsycalifornia]

What works for me is to email [email protected], Rhiannon Owens. Get a case sorted with VW then visit the dealer of your choice, some are better than others, and give them pictures as well.
I find the dealers hit and miss, Rhiannon is excellent. Can’t fault her. Don’t accept the BS from some dealers that they all leak. Had my 3rd one fitted two weeks ago, all good so far.

 

[SusiBus]

Our 24 plate fitted with O5S bellows leaked like yours. Sent video of it leaking and pics to dealer. They changed them for 06S bellows.

 

[CharlieBoy]

Our 24 plate fitted with O5S bellows leaked like yours. Sent video of it leaking and pics to dealer. They changed them for 06S bellows.

Thank you. Can you tell me how to ascertain which model I have please ie 05S or 06S (or another version perhaps?.

 

[CharlieBoy]

What works for me is to email [email protected], Rhiannon Owens. Get a case sorted with VW then visit the dealer of your choice, some are better than others, and give them pictures as well.
I find the dealers hit and miss, Rhiannon is excellent. Can’t fault her. Don’t accept the BS from some dealers that they all leak. Had my 3rd one fitted two weeks ago, all good so far.

Thank you. I will email Rhiannon as you suggest. I will try a dealer close to me; can’t use the sales outlet as they were a dedicated Campervan ‘specialist’ who directed me to VW for all after sales work. The VW dealer I refer to were very helpful registering me for the five year warranty package.

 

[Julesverne2000]

Good luck. There had been some reporting a little earlier in the thread that models 04s and 05s would no longer be replaced after April this year. Will be worth a strong challenge with VW Exec Office if that’s the case.

The 06s is the only variation that has any easily visible difference to earlier versions - the vertical seams in the corners are all now taped.

I don’t think anyone has reported having 06s from the factory, it’s something that has been fitted by the dealers after inspection. Most likely you have an 04s or 05s. There is a code tucked away in the fabric but someone else will have to explain exactly where, there are posts within this tread if you scroll back.

After a lot of early struggles in 2023 and 2024, the warranty claim and replacement process seamed to have become relatively straight forward by late 2024.

 

[Sheffield10]

Follow the links:

Leaking pop tops on 2023 California Oceans

We submitted a video and stills of our leaking O5S bellows. They were leaking from the bottom of the front corner seams, but also badly from under the base rubber seal. They said they had to do their own test. Did they? Or is this just to tick boxes to keep VW happy? Anyway, they changed them...

vwcaliforniaclub.com

 

[Betsycalifornia]

I did see that and I was surprised to have my 05s replaced for the 06s.

 

[CharlieBoy]

Good luck. There had been some reporting a little earlier in the thread that models 04s and 05s would no longer be replaced after April this year. Will be worth a strong challenge with VW Exec Office if that’s the case.

The 06s is the only variation that has any easily visible difference to earlier versions - the vertical seams in the corners are all now taped.

I don’t think anyone has reported having 06s from the factory, it’s something that has been fitted by the dealers after inspection. Most likely you have an 04s or 05s. There is a code tucked away in the fabric but someone else will have to explain exactly where, there are posts within this tread if you scroll back.

After a lot of early struggles in 2023 and 2024, the warranty claim and replacement process seamed to have become relatively straight forward by late 2024.

Thank you. I’m getting good information after posting this. I’m grateful to all the answers I’ve received and pleased to hear I might be at the tail end of this issue rather than the start of it. Rained a bit this afternoon with no wind at all but quite heavy and came in through the offside corner seam (several blobs and some drips); one little blob right in the centre.