2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Incorrect. Partially.

All manufacturers outsource nigh on all components to 1st tier suppliers. In house parts now is mainly just the bodyshells. In some cases that carries on until you have 3rd and 4th tier suppliers. The one VW has the contract with has to do their own quality testing of the parts, including ones they outsourced, and prove they have done so on a regular basis. VW, like others, will also spot check parts and in case of warranty failures visit the suppliers and find out what is wrong. I used to do this latter part and spend much of the late 90s visiting Coventry and Birmingham based supppliers and testing their parts and processes.

VW will then test each van that comes offline and each operator will be responsible for their own station and checking there. I discussed this process much higher in the thread. This testing is of the complete van, not individual bits, but will include a water test, usually in a sealed unit, like most do.

That this is not picked up by this process has also been discussed and giving the timing and wind nature of it is unfortunately one of those issue that would rarely if ever be picked up by end of line testing.

Reading with interest of those rejecting their Calis. Personally I think this makes little sense as this will get fixed eventually and customers made right somehow. That comms have been limited is true, but such is the nature of legal departments advice and complex parts issues. The easiest fix is to buy a belows protector and wait it out IMHO. I’d rather pay 300 quid than reject my 70K van because I was beyond irate and wanted to make a point.

People might not be trying to make a point. A campervan that can’t be used in the rain isn’t fit for purpose, it’s as simple as that. I think you have to give the dealers and VW a chance to fix the issue first, but ultimately if it doesn’t get resolved or takes too long then I would do exactly the same. I shouldn’t have to spend even more cash on a bellows protector for a van I spend £70k on, that’s ridiculous. It’s a major problem that needs putting right promptly.

 

[andyinluton]

Reading with interest of those rejecting their Calis. Personally I think this makes little sense as this will get fixed eventually and customers made right somehow. That comms have been limited is true, but such is the nature of legal departments advice and complex parts issues. The easiest fix is to buy a belows protector and wait it out IMHO. I’d rather pay 300 quid than reject my 70K van because I was beyond irate and wanted to make a point.

I agree, especially if anyone has gone over the 3 month deadline after which the dealer is entitled to reasonable sum for any mileage covered. The normal starting point for a mileage deduction on a car would be the 45p HMRC rate and start arguing from there, either that or the hire cost for the period of a similar vehicle.

The outcome will be most likely be based on the dealers view of how much of a problem a returned van is going to cause them.

If I was a dealer I would be thinking along the lines of getting some roof toppers in stock & handing them out to complaining customers whilst they await a fix.

 

[Corradobrit]

Reading with interest of those rejecting their Calis. Personally I think this makes little sense as this will get fixed eventually and customers made right somehow. That comms have been limited is true, but such is the nature of legal departments advice and complex parts issues. The easiest fix is to buy a belows protector and wait it out IMHO. I’d rather pay 300 quid than reject my 70K van because I was beyond irate and wanted to make a point.

After waiting 2 years 2 months wait, there is no way I would reject for a simple bellows issue. With the cheap factory backed extended warranties in the UK there really is worry free ownership. VW will get this issue fixed given the numbers affected throughout Europe. It will get traction as the new Multivan Cali will likely use the same fabric and construction methods.

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I agree, especially if anyone has gone over the 3 month deadline after which the dealer is entitled to reasonable sum for any mileage covered. The normal starting point for a mileage deduction on a car would be the 45p HMRC rate and start arguing from there, either that or the hire cost for the period of a similar vehicle.

The outcome will be most likely be based on the dealers view of how much of a problem a returned van is going to cause them.

If I was a dealer I would be thinking along the lines of getting some roof toppers in stock & handing them out to complaining customers whilst they await a fix.

A roof topper isn’t going to stop me from rejecting a 72k vehicle I’m afraid

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Onl

Any pushback? How many miles on the odo?

The only had from the sales manager is… I’ll have to look into what happens with rejections …. As I’ve never done one Before.
I’ll be sticking to my points… the vehicles not fit for purpose .
It’s had 17miles on when bought new 4 weeks ago. It’s a joke, and I really don’t understand why these vehicles get such a following. They are awful.

 

[andyinluton]

A roof topper isn’t going to stop me from rejecting a 72k vehicle I’m afraid

Nobody is stopping you doing anything. You either wan't a California or you don't. If you do want one there isn't a lot of choice other than to be patient whilst VW sort a fix. If you don't want one good luck with whatever replaces it.

 

[ArunAlec]

Whilst rejecting may be a sledgehammer to crack a nut, VW’s past record doesn’t inspire owners to ”hold out” until they have a fix (or even acknowledge that there is a problem). Roof corrosion and leaking windows spring to mind!

 

[andyinluton]

Whilst rejecting may be a sledgehammer to crack a nut, VW’s past record doesn’t inspire owners to ”hold out” until they have a fix (or even acknowledge that there is a problem). Roof corrosion and leaking windows spring to mind!

The big difference with the bellows is that there is already a known solution that works, the previous version.

The way forward is back the way we came.......

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Nobody is stopping you doing anything. You either wan't a California or you don't. If you do want one there isn't a lot of choice other than to be patient whilst VW sort a fix. If you don't want one good luck with whatever replaces it.

Mate, people will be waiting forever for VW to find a fix or admit fault their bellows leak…

 

[Joncali2023!!]

I’ve just this minute finished my letter rejecting my van.
I wouldn’t mind if VW held their hands up and admitted there is a problem and they were working on a fix/replacement. But they’re not, and in my case they’re even saying that it is normal and that’s the properties of the fabric.
I’ve had my van 5 months now, so the 6 month limit for rejecting it is almost here. Im sure they will reject my claim as they aren’t admitting any fault, but if they do I’ll have to seek legal advice.
Please keep us posted on what your dealer says and I will do the same.

Can you keep me updated on any response you get from your rejection letter , and vice Versa .

 

[RockinNRollin]

Personally I wouldn't get to the stage of rejecting the vehicle unless the dissatisfaction is so extreme you've decided "Cali life" isn't for you. In any other case, it's worth making a bit of continual noise to VW to keep the pressure on, but live with the vehicle and take whatever "temporary fixes" to allow you to enjoy it in the meantime. I've not yet had mine leak (luck I suspect!) but I've just got a Comfortz wrap as a backup (and tbh I was going to get one for cold weather camping anyway). My intention is to actually not fit it on rainy days until such time as I confirm a leak (so I can confirm mine is affected and I have evidence to prove that), from that point onwards it'll be a regular fixture.

VW will likely provide a fix eventually and I definitely prefer the new bellows over the MY22 bellows - it's warmer, less flappy and brighter inside. Worst case scenario is VW eventually deny any issue completely, or offer to replace with the old style bellows - if mine is leaking, at that stage I'll be applying seam sealer to the bellows (I seam sealed a tent that had a tape missing; the seam sealing; I was sceptical, but the stuff is amazing, resists the scrunching a tent flysheet has to deal with and works perfectly). Cheap and quick to apply, all that's stopping me (and others) from doing it right now is the possibility of invalidating the warranty and any "official" fix further down the line, but it's a cheap safety-net solution to keep up our sleeve.

Personally - while I was really annoyed and anxious about the issues when I got the van, I've quickly got over that and even if mine does leak, I'm happy enough that I've got measures in place to keep things working until there's a fix, be that my own or VW's.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

This is why we all have to make our own decision.

Personally I wouldn't get to the stage of rejecting the vehicle unless the dissatisfaction is so extreme you've decided "Cali life" isn't for you. In any other case, it's worth making a bit of continual noise to VW to keep the pressure on, but live with the vehicle and take whatever "temporary fixes" to allow you to enjoy it in the meantime. I've not yet had mine leak (luck I suspect!) but I've just got a Comfortz wrap as a backup (and tbh I was going to get one for cold weather camping anyway). My intention is to actually not fit it on rainy days until such time as I confirm a leak (so I can confirm mine is affected and I have evidence to prove that), from that point onwards it'll be a regular fixture.

VW will likely provide a fix eventually and I definitely prefer the new bellows over the MY22 bellows - it's warmer, less flappy and brighter inside. Worst case scenario is VW eventually deny any issue completely, or offer to replace with the old style bellows - if mine is leaking, at that stage I'll be applying seam sealer to the bellows (I seam sealed a tent that had a tape missing; the seam sealing; I was sceptical, but the stuff is amazing, resists the scrunching a tent flysheet has to deal with and works perfectly). Cheap and quick to apply, all that's stopping me (and others) from doing it right now is the possibility of invalidating the warranty and any "official" fix further down the line, but it's a cheap safety-net solution to keep up our sleeve.

Personally - while I was really annoyed and anxious about the issues when I got the van, I've quickly got over that and even if mine does leak, I'm happy enough that I've got measures in place to keep things working until there's a fix, be that my own or VW's.

This is why we all have to make our own decisions. It doesn’t matter what other people do.

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Personally I wouldn't get to the stage of rejecting the vehicle unless the dissatisfaction is so extreme you've decided "Cali life" isn't for you. In any other case, it's worth making a bit of continual noise to VW to keep the pressure on, but live with the vehicle and take whatever "temporary fixes" to allow you to enjoy it in the meantime. I've not yet had mine leak (luck I suspect!) but I've just got a Comfortz wrap as a backup (and tbh I was going to get one for cold weather camping anyway). My intention is to actually not fit it on rainy days until such time as I confirm a leak (so I can confirm mine is affected and I have evidence to prove that), from that point onwards it'll be a regular fixture.

VW will likely provide a fix eventually and I definitely prefer the new bellows over the MY22 bellows - it's warmer, less flappy and brighter inside. Worst case scenario is VW eventually deny any issue completely, or offer to replace with the old style bellows - if mine is leaking, at that stage I'll be applying seam sealer to the bellows (I seam sealed a tent that had a tape missing; the seam sealing; I was sceptical, but the stuff is amazing, resists the scrunching a tent flysheet has to deal with and works perfectly). Cheap and quick to apply, all that's stopping me (and others) from doing it right now is the possibility of invalidating the warranty and any "official" fix further down the line, but it's a cheap safety-net solution to keep up our sleeve.

Personally - while I was really annoyed and anxious about the issues when I got the van, I've quickly got over that and even if mine does leak, I'm happy enough that I've got measures in place to keep things working until there's a fix, be that my own or VW's.

Hi
Its easy to see if your bellows are leaking. My van is in with VW today. Before it went in I thought I would try out the hosepipe test.
It took about 30-40 minutes to start coming out of the inner seam. I sprayed the front section with a hose on spray pattern, concentrating on the semi circular fly mesh, making sure the water was getting through and pooling at the bottom. In the rain, it can take several hours to leak.
Phil

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Personally I wouldn't get to the stage of rejecting the vehicle unless the dissatisfaction is so extreme you've decided "Cali life" isn't for you. In any other case, it's worth making a bit of continual noise to VW to keep the pressure on, but live with the vehicle and take whatever "temporary fixes" to allow you to enjoy it in the meantime. I've not yet had mine leak (luck I suspect!) but I've just got a Comfortz wrap as a backup (and tbh I was going to get one for cold weather camping anyway). My intention is to actually not fit it on rainy days until such time as I confirm a leak (so I can confirm mine is affected and I have evidence to prove that), from that point onwards it'll be a regular fixture.

VW will likely provide a fix eventually and I definitely prefer the new bellows over the MY22 bellows - it's warmer, less flappy and brighter inside. Worst case scenario is VW eventually deny any issue completely, or offer to replace with the old style bellows - if mine is leaking, at that stage I'll be applying seam sealer to the bellows (I seam sealed a tent that had a tape missing; the seam sealing; I was sceptical, but the stuff is amazing, resists the scrunching a tent flysheet has to deal with and works perfectly). Cheap and quick to apply, all that's stopping me (and others) from doing it right now is the possibility of invalidating the warranty and any "official" fix further down the line, but it's a cheap safety-net solution to keep up our sleeve.

Personally - while I was really annoyed and anxious about the issues when I got the van, I've quickly got over that and even if mine does leak, I'm happy enough that I've got measures in place to keep things working until there's a fix, be that my own or VW's.

i understand everyone is different and have different standards, but to pay 70k for a vehicle of this standard is shocking.
I’ve Had campervans for years and only had vw transporter with conversions - i had not One issue, even the poptop installed didn’t leak in storm like conditions .
It was Only 3 years old When I decided to get a “proper” campervan and bought the Cali 4 weeks ago.
What a daft decision that’s turned out to be.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

i understand everyone is different and have different standards, but to pay 70k for a vehicle of this standard is shocking.
I’ve Had campervans for years and only had vw transporter with conversions - i had not One issue, even the poptop installed didn’t leak in storm like conditions .
It was Only 3 years old When I decided to get a “proper” campervan and bought the Cali 4 weeks ago.
What a daft decision that’s turned out to be.

Is the leaking roof the only issue you’ve had?

 

[66tim99]

170 quid for double mattress topper? Better sing me a lullaby at that price.

Just spent £150 on a Duvalay for the kid too!

 

[Lizziwhizz]

i understand everyone is different and have different standards, but to pay 70k for a vehicle of this standard is shocking.
I’ve Had campervans for years and only had vw transporter with conversions - i had not One issue, even the poptop installed didn’t leak in storm like conditions .
It was Only 3 years old When I decided to get a “proper” campervan and bought the Cali 4 weeks ago.
What a daft decision that’s turned out to be.

i understand everyone is different and have different standards, but to pay 70k for a vehicle of this standard is shocking.
I’ve Had campervans for years and only had vw transporter with conversions - i had not One issue, even the poptop installed didn’t leak in storm like conditions .
It was Only 3 years old When I decided to get a “proper” campervan and bought the Cali 4 weeks ago.
What a daft decision that’s turned out to be.

We considered buying a new Cali Beach Camper, hence always keep reading posts on the forum to keep up to date with latest issues and positive stories.. I have also had frustrating discussions with service / parts managers over the years, when buying replacement VW sliding windows… the damage they have done to my previous camper vans has been extensive and they new these parts were always faulty! 20 years later and still we see similar issues, appreciate it’s a different fault, but water ingress in any part of the van is not good. For those owners who are keeping calm and waiting for VW to act, I commend you, I though, wouldn’t be as accommodating and agree that a vehicle with a leaking bellows is far from fit for purpose.
We won’t be buying another California, owning one has been enough for us, I’m not saying they are better or worse than other similar vans, I think the Beach camper isn’t bad value for money when compared to other conversions, even when you factor in less camping gear. The whole camper van / motor home market in our opinion has gone ridiculously expensive, only a few years ago we was at A1 campers who sold new Calis for £54000…. and the pop tops didn’t leak back then, now you can add another £20000.00 to that for a full fat Ocean (with a faulty roof bellows)….. With increasing costs, people quite rightly have higher expectations on perceived quality and rightly so, when you consider how much more these vans are now costing. I can also appreciate the stress and pressure having to video / take pictures of the fault, log complaints with VW and wait endless weeks for communication…
VW will not be getting any more or our money! I know many on this forum will disagree with my thoughts, but we all have different levels of tolerance when it comes to these situations..
Good luck and hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

 

[Corradobrit]

We considered buying a new Cali Beach Camper, hence always keep reading posts on the forum to keep up to date with latest issues and positive stories.. I have also had frustrating discussions with service / parts managers over the years, when buying replacement VW sliding windows… the damage they have done to my previous camper vans has been extensive and they new these parts were always faulty! 20 years later and still we see similar issues, appreciate it’s a different fault, but water ingress in any part of the van is not good. For those owners who are keeping calm and waiting for VW to act, I commend you, I though, wouldn’t be as accommodating and agree that a vehicle with a leaking bellows is far from fit for purpose.
We won’t be buying another California, owning one has been enough for us, I’m not saying they are better or worse than other similar vans, I think the Beach camper isn’t bad value for money when compared to other conversions, even when you factor in less camping gear. The whole camper van / motor home market in our opinion has gone ridiculously expensive, only a few years ago we was at A1 campers who sold new Calis for £54000…. and the pop tops didn’t leak back then, now you can add another £20000.00 to that for a full fat Ocean (with a faulty roof bellows)….. With increasing costs, people quite rightly have higher expectations on perceived quality and rightly so, when you consider how much more these vans are now costing. I can also appreciate the stress and pressure having to video / take pictures of the fault, log complaints with VW and wait endless weeks for communication…
VW will not be getting any more or our money! I know many on this forum will disagree with my thoughts, but we all have different levels of tolerance when it comes to these situations..
Good luck and hope you get a satisfactory resolution.

You may soon be able to buy a Ford California, which may meet your expectations. Don't give up the faith quite yet......

 

[Lizziwhizz]

You may soon be able to buy a Ford California, which may meet your expectations. Don't give up the faith quite yet......

Sounds weird ‘Ford California’, my expectations are really low, windows that don’t leak, in fact, no leaks from anywhere please..Just chatting with my other half, we both still like the California package, Ocean is too expensive for us now, yes we can afford to buy a new one, (not on finance, but cash), that said, we cannot justify the price hike in such a short period of time. We would be handing over the full monies in one big card swipe and when you do that, you tend to think a lot harder about whether it’s worth it, I know all the other premium brands have also put their prices up, hence my comments about the madness of the market at the moment. I can see for those who pay monthly, it’s easier to pull the trigger, I’m old school, and have to feel the money in my hands before parting with it or not…

 

[CaliforniaPhil]

Hi
Its easy to see if your bellows are leaking. My van is in with VW today. Before it went in I thought I would try out the hosepipe test.
It took about 30-40 minutes to start coming out of the inner seam. I sprayed the front section with a hose on spray pattern, concentrating on the semi circular fly mesh, making sure the water was getting through and pooling at the bottom. In the rain, it can take several hours to leak.
Phil

View attachment 112693

Cali was in today. They got straight on with it. They did their test, took pictures and I picked her back up.
They said that it leaked and would report back to VW and let me know.

So its a waiting game now.

Was tempted to cancel it until there was a fix but realised everybody needs to take them in until VW come to the conclusion there is a problem with them.

So Caliwrap or topper, any thoughts?

 

[Joncali2023!!]

Is the leaking roof the only issue you’ve had?

Leaking bellows
Sagging pop top ( faulty pump I presume )
Leaking tailgate
Broken front window blind clip ( blind won’t stay in place )
Bubbling paint on the passenger Door.

- Not bad I suppose in 4 weeks of ownership.

 

[Lizziwhizz]

Leaking bellows
Sagging pop top ( faulty pump I presume )
Leaking tailgate
Broken front window blind clip ( blind won’t stay in place )
Bubbling paint on the passenger Door.

- Not bad I suppose in 4 weeks of ownership.

That’s terrible, reject it! It’s not worth the hassle, plus your already gutted and therefore will struggle to enjoy the van given all of the faults.

 

[Corradobrit]

Leaking bellows
Sagging pop top ( faulty pump I presume )
Leaking tailgate
Broken front window blind clip ( blind won’t stay in place )
Bubbling paint on the passenger Door.

- Not bad I suppose in 4 weeks of ownership.

That list might have put me over the edge too. Poor show VW.

 

[Nick from Bath]

Shocking list of faults and would really be expecting a dealer to be pulling out all strings to remedy them. After all it doesn’t take a lot for bad reviews to snowball into a major reputational issue for a dealer these days.

 

[RockinNRollin]

Cali was in today. They got straight on with it. They did their test, took pictures and I picked her back up.
They said that it leaked and would report back to VW and let me know.

So its a waiting game now.

Was tempted to cancel it until there was a fix but realised everybody needs to take them in until VW come to the conclusion there is a problem with them.

So Caliwrap or topper, any thoughts?

I’ve just got a Comfortz one from the club shop - arrived today. Looks good quality! Away next week so will test it then