2023 Ocean leaking roof fabric

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Whatever iteration is being installed now seems to be working as it should. A German owner just spent 2 days in Hamburg with fairly constant rain on all panels and stayed dry. Fingers crossed this isn’t a one off.

Let’s hope so. Apparently my blue bellows have the same part number as before so hoping they’re improved, but slightly sceptical at the moment if the part number is no different.

 

[Ozzy Pete]

I would say that if VW have approved a replacement and you are about to set off on holiday I would give all the areas with seams a good spray with fabric waterproofing. It can’t do any harm and it won’t be detrimental to your claim.

 

[ArunAlec]

I very much doubt if VW have a Bellows manufacturing factory. They might have had input with the engineering specification, size etc, but left it to the manufacturer to determine construction and materials. They will have tested it under Laboratory conditions, not real world weather conditions and accepted a % failure rate which they are happy with as they will bear the cost of replacement under warranty. However, real world testing as shown a flaw. Once the % of failures exceed the expected then VW and the manufacturer will be examining the situation and determining the cause and a fix.
Once again Real World experience has trumped the Laboratory Testing regime.

Those ”Lab bods” will be missing another bonus!

 

[Jeaniethecali]

Yes this is ours. Just dropped off today at the dealer. Bellows being replaced this week…

Please can you tell me which dealer you are using. I can even get mine to admit there is a fault.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Please can you tell me which dealer you are using. I can even get mine to admit there is a fault.

Breeze Van Centre in Poole. Tom Davidson put a post up on here previously inviting any owners to contact them, even if not a Breeze customer, so I’m sure they’d be happy for you to contact them. Weren’t you rejecting your vehicle?

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

Cali was collected two weeks ago and first trip away at the weekend. I bit wet last night and the roof bellows are leaking. Bottom seam is most water productive but all seams exposed to the wind were leaking to some extent.

You can see light through some of the stitching.

Our selling dealer is some distance away and they are suggesting I have the local dealer diagnose the problem (and maybe even remedy it).

I'm a bit reluctant to get someone else involved since with only 2 weeks ownership my consumer rights must be much greater with the selling dealer.

Has anyone had the warranty approved based solely on pictures and videos and what are other peoples views on using a different dealer for either diagnosis or diagnosis and rectification.

Hard to see how it won't nee new ones... but I'm no expert.

Very disappointing.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Cali was collected two weeks ago and first trip away at the weekend. I bit wet last night and the roof bellows are leaking. Bottom seam is most water productive but all seams exposed to the wind were leaking to some extent.

You can see light through some of the stitching.

Our selling dealer is some distance away and they are suggesting I have the local dealer diagnose the problem (and maybe even remedy it).

I'm a bit reluctant to get someone else involved since with only 2 weeks ownership my consumer rights must be much greater with the selling dealer.

Has anyone had the warranty approved based solely on pictures and videos and what are other peoples views on using a different dealer for either diagnosis or diagnosis and rectification.

Hard to see how it won't nee new ones... but I'm no expert.

Very disappointing.

View attachment 112989

View attachment 112990

My warranty claim was approved based on my video, although they can test the van themselves all they like now they have the van in the workshop. It was a fairly conclusive video as I was able to show the weather conditions outside the van too.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

My warranty claim was approved based on my video, although they can test the van themselves all they like now they have the van in the workshop. It was a fairly conclusive video as I was able to show the weather conditions outside the van too.

Presumably you took it to the supplying dealer??

What kind of wait have you had since finding the issue and have you continued to use the van?

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

Presumably you took it to the supplying dealer??

What kind of wait have you had since finding the issue and have you continued to use the van?

Yes took it back to supplying dealer to replace the bellows. I informed the dealer of the issue on 26th July and the bellows being replaced this week, so around 3 weeks. It may have been quicker than that but the bellows were initially blocked from ordering so they couldn’t get the parts. I haven’t been able to use the van for camping if there’s any threat of rain due to the water ingress. There’s 4 of us so we can’t rely on sleeping downstairs as a backup. I could have bought a topper but I didn’t really want to shell out £270-300 when I shouldn’t have to and our next camping trip wasn’t due till next week anyway. They managed to squeeze us in to get this sorted before we go away. The dealer has been absolutely superb in getting this sorted.

 

[Jeaniethecali]

Breeze Van Centre in Poole. Tom Davidson put a post up on here previously inviting any owners to contact them, even if not a Breeze customer, so I’m sure they’d be happy for you to contact them. Weren’t you rejecting your vehicle?

I have sent a letter of rejection to Eurovans but as yet no reply. I'm anticipating that they'll say I can't reject as I've not had it confirmed that there is a fault.
I'm rather dejected at the moment as others like yourself are getting the bellows replaced under warranty and manchester van centre are telling me that VW are saying no. Hence me asking who you are using.

 

[CaliforniaCylus]

I have sent a letter of rejection to Eurovans but as yet no reply. I'm anticipating that they'll say I can't reject as I've not had it confirmed that there is a fault.
I'm rather dejected at the moment as others like yourself are getting the bellows replaced under warranty and manchester van centre are telling me that VW are saying no. Hence me asking who you are using.

I really feel for you on this one.

It worried me a bit that my supplying dealer seemed rather keen I take it to the local VW centre.

I think if they won't accept video evidence I'll just leave it with them until it's resolved.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I have sent a letter of rejection to Eurovans but as yet no reply. I'm anticipating that they'll say I can't reject as I've not had it confirmed that there is a fault.
I'm rather dejected at the moment as others like yourself are getting the bellows replaced under warranty and manchester van centre are telling me that VW are saying no. Hence me asking who you are using.

I really feel for you too on this. I can’t imagine the Manchester van centre has much of an incentive to support you because they’re not on the hook for your van as you didn’t buy the van from them. Have you considered getting Eurovans to replace the bellows under warranty? You might find you get a different answer that way.

 

[Jimmylondon07]

Yes took it back to supplying dealer to replace the bellows. I informed the dealer of the issue on 26th July and the bellows being replaced this week, so around 3 weeks. It may have been quicker than that but the bellows were initially blocked from ordering so they couldn’t get the parts. I haven’t been able to use the van for camping if there’s any threat of rain due to the water ingress. There’s 4 of us so we can’t rely on sleeping downstairs as a backup. I could have bought a topper but I didn’t really want to shell out £270-300 when I shouldn’t have to and our next camping trip wasn’t due till next week anyway. They managed to squeeze us in to get this sorted before we go away. The dealer has been absolutely superb in getting this sorted.

How sure are you that the new bellows they fit will remedy the problem? Have they given you any guidance on a batch number to be installed etc?

 

[dspuk]

I really feel for you too on this. I can’t imagine the Manchester van centre has much of an incentive to support you because they’re not on the hook for your van as you didn’t buy the van from them. Have you considered getting Eurovans to replace the bellows under warranty? You might find you get a different answer that way.

TBH no-one is really on the hook for anything after a car sale - less so when it is a warranty concern. In fact it's in a dealers interest to hoover up as many other dealers warranty claims as possible as the dealer makes a vast amount of money this way, it all being chargeble back to the OEM. Hence the Breeze offer for anyone to contact them. Any and all dealers should be clawing for this bellows business as it will top up their bottom line this year nicely. One that go the extra mile and offer to load toppers while it's being investigated will reap that topper investment in the first few vans.

*edit New car sale.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

TBH no-one is really on the hook for anything after a car sale - less so when it is a warranty concern. In fact it's in a dealers interest to hoover up as many other dealers warranty claims as possible as the dealer makes a vast amount of money this way, it all being chargeble back to the OEM. Hence the Breeze offer for anyone to contact them. Any and all dealers should be clawing for this bellows business as it will top up their bottom line this year nicely. One that go the extra mile and offer to load toppers while it's being investigated will reap that topper investment in the first few vans.

According to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 this is incorrect. Please see the link below. Though I’m sure you’re right that the extra business helps dealers.

Your rights if something is wrong with your car | MoneyHelper

Find out what rights you have when buying a used car from a dealer, private seller or auction. Learn more about what to do if your used car is faulty.

www.moneyhelper.org.uk

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

How sure are you that the new bellows they fit will remedy the problem? Have they given you any guidance on a batch number to be installed etc?

I have no idea if the problem will be fixed, but I sincerely hope so. I don’t really see it as my responsibility. The way I see it the dealer agrees with me and has assessed them as faulty and have offered a replacement. The information out there is hazy at best, on this forum, on the German forum and from VW. At this stage I don’t think anybody truly knows what VW has done to rectify this, but the fact they were blocked from ordering from VW for a period of time and now they’re not suggests something has happened. I’ve asked for further information on what the dealer knows about this and I believe there is a pending technical enquiry to VW on my behalf, but as yet I haven’t heard anything back about this. I suspect VW are playing their cards very close to their chest as if they openly admit there is an issue it could cost them a lot more money than it otherwise might. For us right now it’s fingers crossed time and hope for the best.

 

[Meoncoast]

I do not own a T6.1 However My T5 and my current T6 had no issue with leaking seams. We have been camping since 2012 in a Cali without any type of topper in the most wet and windy weather possible. So given the 6.1 leaks the manufacturing process must have changed VW can make a fit-for-purpose tent as they did in the past so they should be able to sort this issue fairly easily with their supplier a spec for future manufacturing of the part.

 

[dspuk]

According to the Consumer Rights Act 2015 this is incorrect. Please see the link below. Though I’m sure you’re right that the extra business helps dealers.

Your rights if something is wrong with your car | MoneyHelper

Find out what rights you have when buying a used car from a dealer, private seller or auction. Learn more about what to do if your used car is faulty.

www.moneyhelper.org.uk

I was talking mainly about Warranty, so get your point, but the reality is you buy a (new) car from VW. The dealer is the broker. They, as a broker, get a bonus for car sales, and are contracted to support you for warranty and aftersales by VW. In the end though your contract is with VW and it's up to them to fix it. As per consumer rights. More specifically if you bought the car on finance the vehicle is "owned" by VW finance until your last payment.

Clause 5 in your contract:

 

[Jimmylondon07]

I have no idea if the problem will be fixed, but I sincerely hope so. I don’t really see it as my responsibility. The way I see it the dealer agrees with me and has assessed them as faulty and have offered a replacement. The information out there is hazy at best, on this forum, on the German forum and from VW. At this stage I don’t think anybody truly knows what VW has done to rectify this, but the fact they were blocked from ordering from VW for a period of time and now they’re not suggests something has happened. I’ve asked for further information on what the dealer knows about this and I believe there is a pending technical enquiry to VW on my behalf, but as yet I haven’t heard anything back about this. I suspect VW are playing their cards very close to their chest as if they openly admit there is an issue it could cost them a lot more money than it otherwise might. For us right now it’s fingers crossed time and hope for the best.

Fair enough mate and fingers crossed it works out for you. I had my bellows up for the first time over the weekend but it was dry, I have an 03S tag and can see the same light holes that CaliforniaCylus has on his so I think mine leaking is an inevitability unfortunately. I am in the crowd that have reluctantly bought a bellows wrap and will be watching how you guys in the first wave get on with great interest.

 

[andyinluton]

I was talking mainly about Warranty, so get your point, but the reality is you buy a (new) car from VW. The dealer is the broker. They, as a broker, get a bonus for car sales, and are contracted to support you for warranty and aftersales by VW. In the end though your contract is with VW and it's up to them to fix it. As per consumer rights. More specifically if you bought the car on finance the vehicle is "owned" by VW finance until your last payment.

Clause 5 in your contract:

That isn't correct.

Your dealer is not a broker.

Your contract is with whoevers name is on the invoice, ie the dealer & if on finance, its a 3 way contract with whoever provided the finance also jointly liable with the dealer.

It is up to the dealer to fix it with with or without the support of VW UK .

If you are taking the van somewhere other than the dealer you bought from, & may be considering rejecting the vehicle at any point, get your supplying dealer to put it in writing that you are to take the van elsewhere to be fixed on their behalf.
In fact if you are considering rejecting try and get any repair attempt done by the supplying dealer however inconvenient it may be.

 

[dspuk]

That isn't correct.

Your dealer is not a broker.

Your contract is with whoevers name is on the invoice, ie the dealer & if on finance, its a 3 way contract with whoever provided the finance also jointly liable with the dealer.

It is up to the dealer to fix it with with or without the support of VW UK .

If you are taking the van somewhere other than the dealer you bought from, & may be considering rejecting the vehicle at any point, get your supplying dealer to put it in writing that you are to take the van elsewhere to be fixed on their behalf.
In fact if you are considering rejecting try and get any repair attempt done by the supplying dealer however inconvenient it may be.

I guess the whole point I'm making is pedantic, and always happy to be corrected.

- Yes, in the case of issues to do with Sales your dealer is stop one.
- In the case that does not work OEM is the second stop
- After that you can try the courts or omnibudsman
- But, and this was the main point I was making, in the case of service or warranty repair any dealer can carry this out, there is no requirement for this to be the selling one, and in the case of block exemption and service, it does not even to be VW. While there is a point aroung the selling dealer looking after claims, technically VW will allow any dealer to manage it, as long as they are franchised.

In the contract, which I have boringly read in full now due to this convo, it's pretty convoluted. They say the vehicle is owned by VW Finance. In the new goods section, as well as around prices etc they make a distinction between Manufacturer and Concessionaires (dealers) but dissecting it further you are right - the seller is the dealer (also called a concessionaire) and is responsible for issues, the finance company own the car and (some people) get wet if they have a new bellows. I can't see anything about three way contracts, but trust you are right.

Around rejections etc section 22 seems pertinent. It looks like you only have 2 weeks to reject legally:

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I guess the whole point I'm making is pedantic, and always happy to be corrected.

- Yes, in the case of issues to do with Sales your dealer is stop one.
- In the case that does not work OEM is the second stop
- After that you can try the courts or omnibudsman
- But, and this was the main point I was making, in the case of service or warranty repair any dealer can carry this out, there is no requirement for this to be the selling one, and in the case of block exemption and service, it does not even to be VW. While there is a point aroung the selling dealer looking after claims, technically VW will allow any dealer to manage it, as long as they are franchised.

In the contract, which I have boringly read in full now due to this convo, it's pretty convoluted. They say the vehicle is owned by VW Finance. In the new goods section, as well as around prices etc they make a distinction between Manufacturer and Concessionaires (dealers) but dissecting it further you are right - the seller is the dealer (also called a concessionaire) and is responsible for issues, the finance company own the car and (some people) get wet if they have a new bellows. I can't see anything about three way contracts, but trust you are right.

Around rejections etc section 22 seems pertinent. It looks like you only have 2 weeks to reject legally:

View attachment 113007

U.K. law is extremely clear on the right to reject due to a faulty vehicle, it’s in the link I already posted. The key dates are 30 days and 6 months.

I don’t think anybody has disputed that you can use any VW dealer you choose for a warranty claim, and that’s no issue at all when VW agree to the warranty claim and may even be convenient for some people if they bought through DTD and the selling dealer is miles away. There’s a few key points though that would make using any other dealer than the selling dealer unwise in this situation though in my opinion. As the buyer can legitimately sue the selling dealer the selling dealer has a strong incentive to provide the evidence and arguments to make the case for VW to approve the warranty claim. No other dealer is going to be incentivised in this way. Of course you could even use the nuclear option and reject your vehicle if you’re that unhappy and they can’t fix it, but it shouldn’t get this far.

 

[dspuk]

U.K. law is extremely clear on the right to reject due to a faulty vehicle, it’s in the link I already posted. The key dates are 30 days and 6 months.

I don’t think anybody has disputed that you can use any VW dealer you choose for a warranty claim, and that’s no issue at all when VW agree to the warranty claim and may even be convenient for some people if they bought through DTD and the selling dealer is miles away. There’s a few key points though that would make using any other dealer than the selling dealer unwise in this situation though in my opinion. As the buyer can legitimately sue the selling dealer the selling dealer has a strong incentive to provide the evidence and arguments to make the case for VW to approve the warranty claim. No other dealer is going to be incentivised in this way. Of course you could even use the nuclear option and reject your vehicle if you’re that unhappy and they can’t fix it, but it shouldn’t get this far.

I was looking for a shrug emoji but a like will do. No dispute. Just offering additional information.

 

[andyinluton]

I was more concerned about someone trying to reject a vehicle after 30 days, where you've got to the point of having to give the dealer a chance to fix it. If you bypass the dealer & go elsewhere without their instruction, you havn't given them the chance to fix it. You are then trying to reject a vehicle on the basis of a leak in a part fitted by a 3rd party & it could get very messy.

On the other hand if the supplying dealer had said please take it to xxxx to do the repair, the result of that repair is still the supplying dealers problem, hence suggesting that you get something in writing.

Worth noting that once one dealer has had a go at a fix on something, no other dealer will touch it.

 

[OooOooTheMonkey]

I was more concerned about someone trying to reject a vehicle after 30 days, where you've got to the point of having to give the dealer a chance to fix it. If you bypass the dealer & go elsewhere without their instruction, you havn't given them the chance to fix it. You are then trying to reject a vehicle on the basis of a leak in a part fitted by a 3rd party & it could get very messy.

On the other hand if the supplying dealer had said please take it to xxxx to do the repair, the result of that repair is still the supplying dealers problem, hence suggesting that you get something in writing.

Worth noting that once one dealer has had a go at a fix on something, no other dealer will touch it.

Yes you’re spot on. So many reason you’re better off going back to selling dealer.