A salutary lesson about Camping Gaz

[AlanC]

Liz and I are currently touring West Scotland and usually try to cook outside as we don't like the residual smell of cooking in the van.

A couple of nights ago, at Lock Lomond, we used the 2 burner hob on a table outside as usual.

When I came to removing the regulator from the top of the 907 Gaz bottle, the valve in the top didn't close properly and leaked butane at a high pressure. I quickly stuffed the carry handle end down the valve seat to reset the ball valve hoping to clear whatever was jamming the ball valve and the hissing stopped, the handle was screwed back on and all was well. As the next day was expected to be raining all day I put the hob and bottle away and thought no more of it.

We sleep on the bottom bed and in the morning both of us felt light headed, slightly dizzy and unwell. Given we had only had one glass of scotch each and no wine with the meal, clearly alcohol was not the culprit - this time.

As we were both feeling ill, I got to thinking about the Gaz bottle which was stored in a Really Useful Box under the bed board and below our heads, and realised that the 907 valve may still be leaking slightly and filling the storage box till it spilled over the top.

The Gaz bottle immediately went outside and as it was low anyway, I swapped if for a new refill later in the morning leaving the old one in the open storage cage a distance from us.

It took a while for us to feel better, but with the tailgate and the door open lots of fresh Scottish air did the trick despite the rain.

I am now trying to work out how to carry a spare Gaz bottle in the van with suitable drain ventilation so that this won't ever happen again.

A Cali doesn't have an 'A' frame to clamp it to and the water bottle will only take one 907 bottle...but would it take 2 x 904 bottles stacked one on top of the other? Would be a pain to use each time, but we would be guaranteed to wake up each day...

Happily still alive, for now!

Alan

 

[Hotel California]

I had a campinggaz bottle once that leaked on the bal valve also .
I bought 3 second hand bottles on a car boothsale and trow them in the rear of my Renault Kangoo .... during the ride home i could smell gas .
I emptyed it (was less then half full) and traded it in.
Carrying gas outside the sealed container in the Cali needs precaution .
At least the bottle hidden in the watertank with a bottom drain is a very smart thing by VW !

 

[Jay586]

CO detector?

Lucky, I think. I had a gas cartridge leak once, do try to be careful now.

 

[WelshGas]

CO detector?

Lucky, I think. I had a gas cartridge leak once, do try to be careful now.

No use, as there is no CO in the cylinder.

 

[Stoneybroke]

Camping Gaz is butane and is heavier than air, so any build up will fill the van from bottom up, hence the vent hole should be below the bottle level.
If sleeping downstairs it could creep up to breathing level and though the added smell is strong, you can get used to it, and if asleep...
The risk of explosion is very real.
Amazon do sell gas detectors for butane, might be worth exploring.
Any concern about a cylinder the it is best left outside.

 

[B J G]

There are Gas (flamable) detectors on the market priced from £18 also gas leak detector spray which i may now get as a result of this incident.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PH-Gas-Le...609102&hash=item3ad3f46a19:g:Gp8AAOSwo4pYQT6Q

 

[Ian Robinson]

Hi Alan,

I use a 904 cylinder for cooking outside and a 907 cylinder in the water tank locker. I travel with the 904 in the boot of the van but would always leave it outside when sleeping just to be sure.

We have had gaz bottles leak when disconnected and had to poke the ball bearing to get it to seal. However the bottles are designed with belt and braces. Butane at room temp is only about 32psi and so if the washer on the carry handle is not damaged or cracked and it is screwed on firmly this should easily stop any gas escaping even if the ball bearing seal failed. So in theory it should be fine left in the boot when sleeping- but I just feel better with it outside.

The 907 has drop vent and the vw regulator has an over pressure safety cutoff (normal camping regulators should not be used in a van) so I sleep comfortably with that bottle in the van

Ian

 

[Hotel California]

You could buy a plastic container with crew lid , like the ones they use in France at cayack rental to keep your clothes dry.

 

[Kmann]

It is possible to get gasproof canisters to transport the bottles in. I have had the same concerns.

 

[B J G]

You could buy a plastic container with crew lid , like the ones they use in France at cayack rental to keep your clothes dry.

That could actually prove to be a more lethal option.

The container would fill with gas which when the lid was removed could be instantly ignited.

A possible adaption of your idea would be to fit a flexible pipe to the bottom side of the plastic container which in turn would have to be vented through the floor to the open air. Not on the exhaust side.

 

[Kmann]

That could actually prove to be a more lethal option.

The container would fill with gas which when the lid was removed could be instantly ignited.

A possible adaption of your idea would be to fit a flexible pipe to the bottom side of the plastic container which in turn would have to be vented through the floor to the open air. Not on the exhaust side.

They are made for the purpose (its not a Tupperware ), so no problem. There are different types also with a preasure valve.

This could be one … https://www.nauticabasile.it/eng/Products/serie/Watertight-gas-bottle-housing-17591

 

[Wongo]

Trio Gas Alarm

 

[Hotel California]

That could actually prove to be a more lethal option.

The container would fill with gas which when the lid was removed could be instantly ignited.

A possible adaption of your idea would be to fit a flexible pipe to the bottom side of the plastic container which in turn would have to be vented through the floor to the open air. Not on the exhaust side.

That so if you open it with a candle in your other hand.....
If you open it outside i would not worry .
If you are not ok with it fine , think you got a good option with those

 

[B J G]

They are made for the purpose (its not a Tupperware ), so no problem. There are different types also with a preasure valve.

This could be one … https://www.nauticabasile.it/eng/Products/serie/Watertight-gas-bottle-housing-17591

Solution yes but there would need to be a vent pipe through the floor or the gas will still accumulate inside the vehicle. Which was pretty much what I said.
Large grey outlet in the picture I'd guess. Otherwise as stated in item description, it requires to be in a well ventilated area.

Solves the container sourcing problem so great info on that.

 

[sidepod]

Why unscrew the regulator from the bottle?

I carry a 907 for the Cadac but I connect/disconnect at the Cadac end of the hose.

When I finish cooking I turn off at the regulator and cool the hose up.

 

[Amarillo]

I've been uneasy about continually screwing on/off the gas regulator.

We have a fibreglass double box for 2x907 bottles, leave the regulators screwed on, and use quick release for the Cadac and hob.


Follow my blog: www.au-revoir.eu

 

[B J G]

Why unscrew the regulator from the bottle?

I carry a 907 for the Cadac but I connect/disconnect at the Cadac end of the hose.

When I finish cooking I turn off at the regulator and cool the hose up.

Ditto on that, I have always left the regulator on the bottle and disconnected from my gas barbecue.

 

[B J G]

That so if you open it with a candle in your other hand.....
If you open it outside i would not worry .
If you are not ok with it fine , think you got a good option with those

Don't forget that the Gaz cylinder is pressurised and a leak would in turn pressurise your plastic container which in turn may leak or if not would now be a pressurised container.

You may be happy to use a plastic container that isn't designed for that purpose but that would be no consolation to a third party with 3rd degree burns.

 

[AlanC]

Hi Alan,

I use a 904 cylinder for cooking outside and a 907 cylinder in the water tank locker. I travel with the 904 in the boot of the van but would always leave it outside when sleeping just to be sure.

We have had gaz bottles leak when disconnected and had to poke the ball bearing to get it to seal. However the bottles are designed with belt and braces. Butane at room temp is only about 32psi and so if the washer on the carry handle is not damaged or cracked and it is screwed on firmly this should easily stop any gas escaping even if the ball bearing seal failed. So in theory it should be fine left in the boot when sleeping- but I just feel better with it outside.

The 907 has drop vent and the vw regulator has an over pressure safety cutoff (normal camping regulators should not be used in a van) so I sleep comfortably with that bottle in the van

Ian

Up until last year were also had a 904 as the external bottle and as standby if the 907 in the Cali needed replacing. However, it needed to be replaced at a Roses site we were staying at and I got a 907 in exchange for the 904, that was all they had, so I went with it. The 907 fits in the box and I gained more Gaz for the lower price so it seemed a very good deal...until this week. I now keep the spare bottle out of the van at night.

I am not certain if the standard Gaz regulator I use will fit in the box and clear the bed board, but will experiment with the new 907 bottle.

If this regulator doesn't have a over pressure safety cut off, is it any better than the handle screwed down tightly?

Up in Oban now and we are both hail and hearty.

Alan

 

[Ian Robinson]

Hi Alan,

My thoughts are:

The over pressure safety device only works when the regulator is left on and the regulator fails and allows high pressure gas to pass. So in the van where a regulator may be left switched on at night or for extended periods this is an important safety feature. For use outside and then being turned off after each use a normal regulator is fine.

I understand why you would not want to keep taking a regulator on and off the thread. However I personally always replace the carry handle on my portable 904 bottle before it goes back in the van as I feel this gives double protection. A regulator will keep the ball bearing valve open and if the regulator tap is not tight or the regulator is not tight ( could get knocked putting in box or whilst driving) you may get a leak. If the carry handle got knocked lose the ball valve should be shut anyway (albeit that it may not seal perfectly as per the lesson that started the thread).

Hope this helps

Ian

 

[motacyclist]

You could always use a meths burner. We sometimes take one for picnics in the car, more fun than a boring gas stove!

 

[MattBW]

That could actually prove to be a more lethal option.

The container would fill with gas which when the lid was removed could be instantly ignited.

A possible adaption of your idea would be to fit a flexible pipe to the bottom side of the plastic container which in turn would have to be vented through the floor to the open air. Not on the exhaust side.

Gas ignites when it is between about 5% and 15% of the content of the air. A full container would be unlikely to get an explosion but it is certainly a high risk if the volume in the container equated to 5-15% of the vans air volume when opened. :0 Even turning on (or off) a light would be enough but above or below that it wouldn't go. Its very hard to know however.

The best thing in any gas escape is open the windows (not electric ones obviously) don't turn anything on or off if you can help it and get outside until its cleared. It's certainly encouragement for me to have the door activated lights disabled.

Thanks for sharing it has made me think about the amount of gas I carry and how I carry it...

 

[Suomi man]

We bought our first stove this summer. For security reasons and peace of mind we avoided camping gaz and co, and went for an alcohol stove. It´s been brilliant, compact and more than enough to cook a meal for four. We used bioethanol, it comes in plastic bottles with safety cap so no leaks. And even if it leaks, alcohol evaporates and poses no risk of explosion. I´ve found it is a great alternative to camping gaz, and way safer. Worth checking out

 

[WelshGas]

We bought our first stove this summer. For security reasons and peace of mind we avoided camping gaz and co, and went for an alcohol stove. It´s been brilliant, compact and more than enough to cook a meal for four. We used bioethanol, it comes in plastic bottles with safety cap so no leaks. And even if it leaks, alcohol evaporates and poses no risk of explosion. I´ve found it is a great alternative to camping gaz, and way safer. Worth checking out

I don’t think you are correct about the Risk of Explosion.

 

[Wongo]

If your really concerned there are flameless cookers out there, rely on chemical reaction.

A Trangia Stove with gel fuel is pretty low risk.

Solid fuel tablet stoves (Hexamine) beloved of squaddies everywhere are well known coffin fillers in a restricted space