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As promised: Changing the electrohydraulic roof pump!

TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
So as I promised last year, I wanted to keep you updated about changing the electrohydraulic roof pump.
Therefore we need: a pump, some guts, a bit of spare time, and some helping hands.

Up to now I only have the pump and the headlining taken off.

First we take off the A-pillar handles:
IMG_20200113_122832.jpg

IMG_20200113_122942.jpg

Then take off the A and B-pillar linings:

IMG_20200113_125304.jpg

Then just get rid of the sunscreens:

IMG_20200113_125253.jpg

Then you unscrew the top bed light, loosen the felt tape on the runner, drill out 2 rivets on both sides and lift up the sliders (after opening the roof). Just drill out the heads, and leave the rest of the rivets in place. So you can clip on and off the headlining, in case you should need to remove the headlining again later (like I did because of a pinched out water drain):

IMG_20200114_125007.jpg

Luckily the waterdrains stayed in place:

IMG_20200114_125035.jpg

Then you see the little f***er:

IMG_20200114_125016.jpg

IMG_20200116_123616.jpg

So for the moment, I drive around with a nude front cabin...

Now I just need a little time and some spare hands to help me out.
I will keep you guys updated!
 
paradise city

paradise city

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469
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Ireland
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T6 Ocean 150 4Motion
Where are you based TripleBee? If you are around London I could give you a hand if you'd like.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Thanks for the proposition, but I live in Belgium.
And I know a pair of good hands. We just need to find the right time for us both.
 
paradise city

paradise city

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Cool, I'll be following the thread with interest.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Maybe a little question to @VW Guru :

Is it really necessary to disconnect the hydraulic hoses on the rams (pistons)? If I just disconnect the hoses on the pump and connect to the new pump I guess this will work too? A little harder to fit every hose correct, but not worth the hassle to pull the gommets out of the front spoiler?

And is it better to open the roof halfway for the bleeding, or does it give problems when the roof is closed, and then trying to bleed the hydraulic system?

Thanks in advance!
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Oh, and a little remark.
When you unplug the control panel, the air heater doesn't work anymore. Like I had to find out this morning when I put on my heater with the remote.
I came to my van not hearing anything, finding out my front windscreen was still frozen...:upsidedown

So now I connected it again for tomorrow.
 
westfalia

westfalia

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Messages
4,351
Location
Germany.
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
Is there a bleed nut on the pump¿

I would leave the roof down and do the bleeding after but i could be
wrong doing that.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
You have to keep the top bolt on the reservoir half open (only 2 turns in). Then open and close the roof several times.
When I changed the left ram (piston) I had to keep the roof half open, and support the left side of the roof. Then up and down the roof until the left piston took on the hyrdraulic fluid. Until then, only the right side of the roof moved up and down.

I don't think there is an extra closing point other than the pistons completely retracted, and thus pulling the roof down. That is why you can't drive without oil pressure, otherwise the roof will open because of the lack of hydraulic pressure.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Small update:

Replaced the hydraulic motor this afternoon and put all linings back in place. I have a real California again!!

Next update will be when/if I find a solution to refurbish my pump.

First big test will be on Easter holiday, where I hope my roof will keep it's position for more than 1 night.
I hope you all cross your fingers for me on the 10th of april?
 
KGCali

KGCali

Retired and still young at heart!
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Messages
452
Location
Essex
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T5 SE 180 4Motion
Oh, and a little remark.
When you unplug the control panel, the air heater doesn't work anymore. Like I had to find out this morning when I put on my heater with the remote.
I came to my van not hearing anything, finding out my front windscreen was still frozen...:upsidedown

So now I connected it again for tomorrow.
Just a tip for anyone thinking of removing their control panel, makes sure that when reconnecting the plugs at the back, you reconnect the smallest plug first. Apparently, from the Cali tech at VW Liverpool, if you don't the unit will fail to recognise the heater and you will have to get VW to recode the unit. I did as he said and everything is working fine.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Just another update inbetween:

The sound of the hydraulic pump sounds better. When my old pump was operated, I always had a side noise of air going through the system. Specially when on the end of every operation (open / close), there was always a sort of grinding noise (probably of the air). Now it sounds solid without any side noise. Looking good so far.
But the real test will be on a hot day/evening, waking up in the morning to find my roof still fixed up, without sagging. Will let you know.

Just a tip for anyone thinking of removing their control panel, makes sure that when reconnecting the plugs at the back, you reconnect the smallest plug first. Apparently, from the Cali tech at VW Liverpool, if you don't the unit will fail to recognise the heater and you will have to get VW to recode the unit. I did as he said and everything is working fine.
You don't need VW. You can erase the fault codes when you go to the hidden menu (rotation knob + return), search for faults, keep pressing return untill the fault is gone. Or simply shut down the display. And if this don't work, just disconnect both leisure batteries.
Been there, done that. No need to bother VW as they can't recode that unit. You can just hard or soft reset it.
Clears all faults. I disconnected both small connectors while the display was still on. Now all works fine again without interference of VW.
 
KGCali

KGCali

Retired and still young at heart!
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452
Location
Essex
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T5 SE 180 4Motion
Hi @TripleBee any chance of an audio recording of your new pump in operation so I can compare it to mine?
Just another update inbetween:

The sound of the hydraulic pump sounds better. When my old pump was operated, I always had a side noise of air going through the system. Specially when on the end of every operation (open / close), there was always a sort of grinding noise (probably of the air). Now it sounds solid without any side noise. Looking good so far.
But the real test will be on a hot day/evening, waking up in the morning to find my roof still fixed up, without sagging. Will let you know.


You don't need VW. You can erase the fault codes when you go to the hidden menu (rotation knob + return), search for faults, keep pressing return untill the fault is gone. Or simply shut down the display. And if this don't work, just disconnect both leisure batteries.
Been there, done that. No need to bother VW as they can't recode that unit. You can just hard or soft reset it.
Clears all faults. I disconnected both small connectors while the display was still on. Now all works fine again without interference of VW.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Hi @TripleBee any chance of an audio recording of your new pump in operation so I can compare it to mine?
If I find some time this week, I will try to give it a go.
Do you have some issues with yours as well?
Does your roof sag on one side, rather quickly?

I won't install the old one again for comparison.
Maybe someone with a similar problem can have a sound recording of it, so I can analyze if it was as mine before?
 
KGCali

KGCali

Retired and still young at heart!
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Messages
452
Location
Essex
Vehicle
T5 SE 180 4Motion
If I find some time this week, I will try to give it a go.
Do you have some issues with yours as well?
Does your roof sag on one side, rather quickly?

I won't install the old one again for comparison.
Maybe someone with a similar problem can have a sound recording of it, so I can analyze if it was as mine before?
No my roof has always raised and lowered fine since I've owned it. I do get a sound at the end of raising/lowering but it's always done that, sort of buzzzzzzzzzz grrr. Look forward to hearing what your new one sounds like :)
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
New pump:


at 28 seconds, the roof is completely up, and then the pump goes in the last mode. Then, with the old pump, I heard some side noises, probably air, which then led to sagging of the roof on the left side.
So for now, the sound is different, and sounds better. So I am hoping for the best.
 
KGCali

KGCali

Retired and still young at heart!
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Messages
452
Location
Essex
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T5 SE 180 4Motion
New pump:


at 28 seconds, the roof is completely up, and then the pump goes in the last mode. Then, with the old pump, I heard some side noises, probably air, which then led to sagging of the roof on the left side.
So for now, the sound is different, and sounds better. So I am hoping for the best.
Sounds the same as mine buzzzzzzzzzz grrr so hopefully your roof will work fine from now on. Good job, well done :)
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
Some more pictures of the pump.

Still in the California with all the hydraulic tubes attached.
IMG_20200201_154707.jpg
The left bottom an most right top tube ar for the right ram/piston, the other two are for the left ram/piston.
I released the pressure first (with roof closed) by turning the bottom center srew, near the thumb. Then I took out the bottom left and top left tube. No oil was spilling out. Then I unscrewed the top right screw, near the yellow dot. By turning loose, there was still some pressure in the tubes, so they popped out, but were held by the not yet completely loosened screw. Saved me some prying like the other two. So I guess those two top right tubes are filled with the oil for lowering the roof, meaning, oil is pushed on the side of the piston/ram.

On this pump I will have to check everything that has to do with the tube on the top left position. This is the pushing up side of the cylinder(?). If there is an internal leak, then the pressure drops on the pushing side, making the roof sag at that side.

All the parts of the valves I will have to research:
IMG_20200203_201650.jpg IMG_20200203_201702.jpg IMG_20200203_201715.jpg
IMG_20200203_201751.jpg

Plugs for the tubes
IMG_20200203_201821.jpg

1580758167477.png
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
I think I have found a clue about the failing pump:

IMG_20200204_215117.jpg

I hope there is not much debris circulating in the circuit.
Time to open up the hydraulic unit and find out what is causing this.
I hope I can find a way to refurbish this pump.
 
TripleBee

TripleBee

Messages
2,762
Location
melkwegstelsel
Vehicle
T5 SE 140
2 months later update:

A couple of small tests later, the roof does stay up nice and firm (but we've not had warm weather yet), so far so good.
Only problem now is, when rising the roof, the left side comes a little bit behind. The right side is already fully up, but the left side isn't yet for another second. Once the left side it up, the pump makes the "ending noise".
After half a day in the sun, when lowering the roof, the right side drops quicker than the left side. Before it was the left side that dropped quicker. So far so good, until you see the difference here:

When removing a few trims, I can see this:
IMG_20200328_104047.jpg
The right ram has some crystalisation (yellow?) on the head. As the hydraulic fluid is pink, I wouldn't say it's a leak, but maybe it's a chemical reaction bewteen the aluminium and the fluid?
Anyway, I am going to replace the right ram with the "old" left ram, that doesn't have the crystalisation.

But first, a quick test.
Can anyone name those parts?

IMG_20200328.jpg

1:
2:
3:
4:
5:
 
westfalia

westfalia

VIP Member
Messages
4,351
Location
Germany.
Vehicle
T5 SE 174
3 and 4 - awning seal and brackets
1 ram cover
2, i can't see it
5, awning sat on a mat

Are the pipes in full pressure when the roof is up, probably are, so then
you will have to release the pump pressure with that screw won't you.

What tool are you using to remove the pipes from the ram.
 

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