Atera Strada DL3-4 compared to Thule G6 Euro Classic 928/9

[California4x4]

Hi California4x4.
If you look back at one of my posts earlier in this thread you'll see a photo with the cable in its new position. I didn't drill any extra holes, I simply moved the cable to the other available hole. It seems really strange that the clearance on all makes of rack seems to vary from vehicle to vehicle. As you can probably see from the photo, our tailgate clears the rack easily. The only difference must be the make of towbar?

Thanks Rob, it is interesting. I have what looks like the same two options for holes. I tried them both in the shop, where I got it before I paid. I will either make a longer cable or go without and just rest the outer mountain bike on the ground.


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[Rob C]

Good luck. I hope you find a solution that works. All very frustrating!

 

[California4x4]

Good luck. I hope you find a solution that works. All very frustrating!

Update. I retried it at home and it works in the second hole with a couple of mm of clearance so thankfully no modifications required.


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[California4x4]

I'm very pleased with the 929. It allows my 3 (different types of) bikes to be mounted together without having to adjust handlebars or seats. The mountain bike handlebars would be too wide to mount on the inner rail without touching the van or the outer rail without touching the ground unless they were rotated but it works fine on the middle rail. There is plenty of room to walk between the van and the rack to get things from the back door. All up I'm happy.

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[Rob C]

I'm glad it worked for you too. We're delighted with ours.

Also, nice bikes!

 

[California4x4]

I'm glad it worked for you too. We're delighted with ours.

Also, nice bikes!

Thanks. Yes, I just bought the cyclocross bike to fit the gap between the full suspension 29er and the triathlon bike. I think I've got something for all conditions now. Just need some studded tyres for the mountain bike for the icy mornings.


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[Seán Kerr]

Allow me to add my experience so far.

I recently took delivery of my T6 Ocean with VW factory option removeable towbar (Westfalia). I’ve had the Atera Strada DL 3 to 4 rack for a number of years and used it with a BMW X5 with an aftermarket Westfalia removable towbar. Today, I tried the bike rack on the Cali to test the lights and clearances, although I did this without any bikes on it initially.

My observations are as follows:

1. The towbar supplied with the Cali is shorter than the one on the X5, although they are otherwise identical in terms of fittings, design and operation.
2. Unlike the experience of the original poster, the tailgate DOES clear the rack when it’s in the slid back position. However, this is only achievable by moving the bike clamp arms to the horizontal position, which they will be in if you have three bikes in the first three positions in the rack (or you just move them to that position if no bikes are fitted). When the arms are in the vertical position, the tailgate would collide with the clamps, which stick out, as can be seen in the OP’s photo.

Having now read this thread, I may try the X5’s towbar on the Cali to see if its additional length gives enough clearance with the bars in the vertical position. I suspect that it might.

I’ll try some bikes on it tomorrow. Turning the first bike’s handlebars is not a big deal, although I’ll try a road bike in the first position as well. Of course, if people are taking three bikes or less, loading them in positions 2 to 4 would (I assume) negate the need for handlebar rotation.

I am impressed with the Atera. I originally bought it as loading bikes on the roof of the X5 was tricky for a 5’11” person! It’s lighter than the Thule and it’s plenty heavy enough in my view! I also like the slide back and down operation (vs tilt) as it keeps the bikes off the ground and means that handlebars and pedals can stay where they are. You just have to lubricate the sliding mechanism from time to time (WD40 or similar) and it glides beautifully. One thing I like the look of on the Thule is the removable clamp arms. I think that this would make things much simpler. If you can fit the bikes on the Atera perfectly first time, every single time, then you’d do really well on the Kypton Factor or the Crystal Maze! You have to think ahead, particularly if you are loading any different bikes at any time.

Will report back after trying the longer towbar and the bikes. I’ll take some photos as well.

 

[sapto]

@Seán Kerr : great report and review. I wonder if it is possible to combine the arms of the Thule and fix them to the Atera.

 

[WelshGas]

Allow me to add my experience so far.

I recently took delivery of my T6 Ocean with VW factory option removeable towbar (Westfalia). I’ve had the Atera Strada DL 3 to 4 rack for a number of years and used it with a BMW X5 with an aftermarket Westfalia removable towbar. Today, I tried the bike rack on the Cali to test the lights and clearances, although I did this without any bikes on it initially.

My observations are as follows:

1. The towbar supplied with the Cali is shorter than the one on the X5, although they are otherwise identical in terms of fittings, design and operation.
2. Unlike the experience of the original poster, the tailgate DOES clear the rack when it’s in the slid back position. However, this is only achievable by moving the bike clamp arms to the horizontal position, which they will be in if you have three bikes in the first three positions in the rack. When the arms are in the vertical position, the tailgate would collide with the clamps, which stick out, as can be seen in the OP’s photo.

Having now read this thread, I may try the X5’s towbar on the Cali to see if its additional length gives it even clearance. I suspect that it might.

I’ll try some bikes on it tomorrow. Turning the first bike’s handlebars is not a big deal, although I’ll try a road bike in the first position as well. Of course, if people are taking three bikes or less, loading them in positions 2 to 4 would (I assume) negate the need for handlebar rotation.

I am impressed with the Atera. I originally bought it as loading bikes on the roof of the X5 was tricky for a 5’11” person! It’s lighter than the Thule and it’s plenty heavy enough in my view! I also like the slide back and down operation (vs tilt) as it keeps the bikes off the ground and means that handlebars and pedals can stay where they are. You just have to lubricate the sliding mechanism from time to time (WD40 or similar) and it glides beautifully. One thing I like the look of on the Thule is the removable clamp arms. I think that this would make things much simpler. If you can fit the bikes on the Atera perfectly first time, every single time, then you’d do really well on the Kypton Factor or the Crystal Maze! You have to think ahead, particularly if you are loading any different bikes at any time.

Will report back after trying the longer towbar and the bikes. I’ll take some photos as well.

You can turn the arm clamps through a 180o so that when vertical the screw head is on the inside of the bar and when the clamps are attached to bikes the screw head is on the under side. Well I can on mine which is about 5yrs old.

 

[Seán Kerr]

You can turn the arm clamps through a 180o so that when vertical the screw head is on the inside of the bar and when the clamps are attached to bikes the screw head is on the under side. Well I can on mine which is about 5yrs old.

Will try that today.

 

[Seán Kerr]

OK so it rained nearly all of yesterday so I've just completed my analysis of the Atera Strada DL 3 to 4 rack in a range of scenarios as follows. Hopefully this will help others who are thinking of this rack or who have the rack and are considering which towbar to get.

I'll come to my conclusions first, for anyone not needing or wishing to read the detail below them:

1. With this bike rack mounted on the factory fitted removable Westfalia towbar on my MY18 T6 California Ocean, the tailgate will clear the rack only if the bike clamp arms are in the horizontal position (i.e. the position they'd be in when carrying bikes in the first three spaces), but will require the rotation of the handle bars on the bike nearest to the tailgate, whether these are straight or racing bars.
2. With the same rack mounted to the longer Westfalia towbar borrowed from my 2012 BMW X5 E70 (Westfalia code 303 273), the Cali tailgate clears everything, i.e., the rack (no matter the position of the clamp arms) and straight handlebars on an adult man's bike.

Based on the above, I'm probably going to either keep the longer towbar for use on the Cali when I sell the X5 or source another one. Had I been aware of this at the time of ordering my Cali, I'd probably have considered a different bike rack or aftermarket towbar. EDIT / UPDATE: see my later posts in this thread - I didn’t use the longer towbar as it’s not approved / recommended by VW or an expert towbar company.

Detailed report with images:

Vehicle: UK 2017 (MY18) California Ocean 204 TDI DSG 4Motion (https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/new-cali-ocean-204-4motion-dsg-collected.20900/)

Towbars tested:

a. Bottom towbar is the one that I borrowed from my BMW X5 2012 E70 (Westfalia 303 273). As can be seen, this towbar sits at about the same height as the Cali one above but is significantly longer, by about 55mm:


b. Top towbar is the one supplied with the Cali (Westfalia 321 647)


I did three identical tests with each towbar to check the clearance between the tailgate and the rack / bikes with the rack slid back to its furthest position. The three tests were:
1. Rack fitted without bikes.
2. Rack fitted and a road bike in the position nearest the tailgate.
3. Rack fitted and a mountain bike in the position nearest the tailgate.

Note: the bikes are both mine (5'11" adult male so medium to large frames). If you have larger bikes, this could be something to check.

First up was the longer towbar borrowed from the BMW:

1a. Longer towbar / rack fitted without bikes. Comfortable clearance:



2a. Longer towbar / rack fitted and a road bike in the rack position nearest the tailgate. Comfortable clearance:


3a. Longer towbar / rack fitted and a mountain bike in the rack position nearest the tailgate. Clearance by a few cm:


Next up was the shorter Cali towbar:

1b. Shorter towbar / rack fitted without bikes. Three photos with the bike clamp arms in different positions.

Clearance by less than 1cm when the bike clamp arms are in the horizontal position (as they would be with the rack clicked back into place for travel):


With the bike clamp arms in the vertical position, clearance is hindered by the hand screws as shown:


@WelshGas suggested reversing the clamp arms. I was going to try this, but I just moved the arms through 180 degrees so that they were again vertical but sticking up, which had the same outcome of moving the hand screws to the opposite side. However, clearance was still hindered by the hinges opposite the hand screws:


2b. Shorter towbar / rack fitted and a road bike in the rack position nearest the tailgate. Not cleared - would require rotation of handlebars:


2c. Shorter towbar / rack fitted and a mountain bike in the rack position nearest the tailgate. Not cleared - would require rotation of handlebars:


Hope this helps others.

 

[sapto]

@Seán Kerr again: great write up! Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts!

 

[WelshGas]

Interesting. I have a Factory fitted VW Westfalia removable towbar, which is like your BMW X5 . Nothing like your VW towbar. That’s why mine doesn’t foul the clamps, but have to turn the handlebars on the nearest bike.

 

[Seán Kerr]

Interesting. I have a Factory fitted VW Westfalia removable towbar, which is like your BMW X5 . Nothing like your VW towbar. That’s why mine doesn’t foul the clamps, but have to turn the handlebars on the nearest bike.

Also interesting. If you get the chance, could you let us know the 6 digit ref code on the towbar? According to Westfalia’s 2017 catalogue, the T6 is meant to have a 321 651, but mine is a 321 647 as shown above.

 

[WelshGas]

Also interesting. If you get the chance, could you let us know the 6 digit ref code on the towbar? According to Westfalia’s 2017 catalogue, the T6 is meant to have a 321 651, but mine is a 321 647 as shown above.

Will try tomorrow.

 

[B J G]

Allow me to add my experience so far.

I recently took delivery of my T6 Ocean with VW factory option removeable towbar (Westfalia). I’ve had the Atera Strada DL 3 to 4 rack for a number of years and used it with a BMW X5 with an aftermarket Westfalia removable towbar. Today, I tried the bike rack on the Cali to test the lights and clearances, although I did this without any bikes on it initially.

My observations are as follows:

1. The towbar supplied with the Cali is shorter than the one on the X5, although they are otherwise identical in terms of fittings, design and operation.
2. Unlike the experience of the original poster, the tailgate DOES clear the rack when it’s in the slid back position. However, this is only achievable by moving the bike clamp arms to the horizontal position, which they will be in if you have three bikes in the first three positions in the rack (or you just move them to that position if no bikes are fitted). When the arms are in the vertical position, the tailgate would collide with the clamps, which stick out, as can be seen in the OP’s photo.

Having now read this thread, I may try the X5’s towbar on the Cali to see if its additional length gives enough clearance with the bars in the vertical position. I suspect that it might.

I’ll try some bikes on it tomorrow. Turning the first bike’s handlebars is not a big deal, although I’ll try a road bike in the first position as well. Of course, if people are taking three bikes or less, loading them in positions 2 to 4 would (I assume) negate the need for handlebar rotation.

I am impressed with the Atera. I originally bought it as loading bikes on the roof of the X5 was tricky for a 5’11” person! It’s lighter than the Thule and it’s plenty heavy enough in my view! I also like the slide back and down operation (vs tilt) as it keeps the bikes off the ground and means that handlebars and pedals can stay where they are. You just have to lubricate the sliding mechanism from time to time (WD40 or similar) and it glides beautifully. One thing I like the look of on the Thule is the removable clamp arms. I think that this would make things much simpler. If you can fit the bikes on the Atera perfectly first time, every single time, then you’d do really well on the Kypton Factor or the Crystal Maze! You have to think ahead, particularly if you are loading any different bikes at any time.

Will report back after trying the longer towbar and the bikes. I’ll take some photos as well.

ef trying alternative towbar.
I contacted Westfalia enquiring if there was a towhitch which had the ball further out from the bumper available. by 2cms approx.

Response was a lecture about VW not permitting that as it was (wait for it) equivalent to putting a scaffolding pole on the towbar which would damage the chassis.

They didn't reply to my reply to that statement.

I've got an Audi A4 one which moves the ball out but also up. bike rack in france and will see how it goes when there in a couple of weeks.

interesting to see how you get on with the X5 one.

 

[Seán Kerr]

ef trying alternative towbar.
I contacted Westfalia enquiring if there was a towhitch which had the ball further out from the bumper available. by 2cms approx.

Response was a lecture about VW not permitting that as it was (wait for it) equivalent to putting a scaffolding pole on the towbar which would damage the chassis.

They didn't reply to my reply to that statement.

I've got an Audi A4 one which moves the ball out but also up. bike rack in france and will see how it goes when there in a couple of weeks.

interesting to see how you get on with the X5 one.

That’s interesting because I’m planning to speak to Westfalia tomorrow to pretty much ask the same question. I was planning to tell them about the above tests and ask if the can recommend a VW T6 approved towbar that will do the same thing and if the BMW one is suitable. I was then going to speak to VW and ask the same thing, although I suspect that they may not know. I’ll also speak to the Westfalia-approved installer that fitted the towbar to the X5. They’ll almost certainly know.

Obviously the BMW towbar ball head being further from the towbar frame will create more torsional force on the frame, based on the lever rule. These forces would then be transferred to the connection mechanism and potentially the chassis, at a level dependant on the torsional stiffness and design of the towbar frame. I’m not a structural engineer (I’m a metallurgist) but I’d be surprised if up to 60kg of rack and bikes being 30% further away from the connection point would cause a problem.

Will feed back what they say. I obviously don’t want to invalidate my warranty.

 

[WelshGas]

That’s interesting because I’m planning to speak to Westfalia tomorrow to pretty much ask the same question. I was planning to tell them about the above tests and ask if the can recommend a VW T6 approved towbar that will do the same thing and if the BMW one is suitable. I was then going to speak to VW and ask the same thing, although I suspect that they may not know. I’ll also speak to the Westfalia-approved installer that fitted the towbar to the X5. They’ll almost certainly know.

Obviously the BMW towbar ball head being further from the towbar frame will create more torsional force on the frame, based on the lever rule. These forces would then be transferred to the connection mechanism and potentially the chassis, at a level dependant on the torsional stiffness and design of the towbar frame. I’m not a structural engineer (I’m a metallurgist) but I’d be surprised if up to 60kg of rack and bikes being 30% further away from the connection point would cause a problem.

Will feed back what they say. I obviously don’t want to invalidate my warranty.

My detachable towbar is Westfalia 321534

 

[B J G]

That’s interesting because I’m planning to speak to Westfalia tomorrow to pretty much ask the same question. I was planning to tell them about the above tests and ask if the can recommend a VW T6 approved towbar that will do the same thing and if the BMW one is suitable. I was then going to speak to VW and ask the same thing, although I suspect that they may not know. I’ll also speak to the Westfalia-approved installer that fitted the towbar to the X5. They’ll almost certainly know.

Obviously the BMW towbar ball head being further from the towbar frame will create more torsional force on the frame, based on the lever rule. These forces would then be transferred to the connection mechanism and potentially the chassis, at a level dependant on the torsional stiffness and design of the towbar frame. I’m not a structural engineer (I’m a metallurgist) but I’d be surprised if up to 60kg of rack and bikes being 30% further away from the connection point would cause a problem.

Will feed back what they say. I obviously don’t want to invalidate my warranty.

I looked on the westfalia site at the manufacturing process and it would appear that the crossbar, where the hitch plugs in, is a common part which would mean no issue with that. the body/chassis attachment would be the only bespoke parts. No obvious reason to cause any metal stress through loading bikes on it.

I don't know if you saw an earlier thread where I found that the British Westfalia (previously Witter) towball is further out from the bumper by about 2cm's than the German product.

Good luck, the shutters came down when I tried to go down the actual loading differences route.

My intention was an alternative one for the bike rack and the VW one for trailers.

 

[Seán Kerr]

ef trying alternative towbar.
I contacted Westfalia enquiring if there was a towhitch which had the ball further out from the bumper available. by 2cms approx.

Response was a lecture about VW not permitting that as it was (wait for it) equivalent to putting a scaffolding pole on the towbar which would damage the chassis.

They didn't reply to my reply to that statement.

I've got an Audi A4 one which moves the ball out but also up. bike rack in france and will see how it goes when there in a couple of weeks.

interesting to see how you get on with the X5 one.

OK, I've spoken to Westfalia UK and to the approved fitter that fitted my X5 with its towbar (Buchans for Towbars near Edinburgh). I had quite a detailed and challenging conversation with a technical rep for Westfalia. Summary:

1. The variation in towbar reference numbers in the brochure, on my T6 and @WelshGas's T5 is because the brochure quotes the aftermarket refs and the VW factory fit ones have difference ref numbers. Also the T5 and T6 towbars are different due to the bumpers being different, which indicates that they are designed around bumper clearance, rather than structural performance per se.
2. They are well aware of the problem with bikes racks on T5s and T6s and that the Atera Strada is the only one they recommend, and are aware that this requires handlebar rotation on the first bike and, rotation of the bike clamp arms in the case of the T6.
3. In an attempt to find a solution to this exact problem, they have carried out a series of tests in Germany. This involved testing a range of alternative longer towbar necks on a T6 and putting it through a full simulation test which applies a series of static, cyclic and bounce loads. All of the towbars tested failed the test, including falling out of the towbar housing. He said to me that there are over 250 variants of housing / frame. They are subtly different.
4. Based on these test results, there is no alternative towbar that they can currently approved for use on the T5/T6.
5. This doesn't mean that my BMW-mounted towbar won't be ok but they wouldn't recommend it as it hasn't been tested and any failure would invalidate any insurances and warranty.
6. He was slightly conflicting in that he agreed that a longer towbar should be structurally fine on a T5/T6 but that they hadn't found one that passed the tests. I don't know why they don't design and build a longer version specifically for the T5/T6 but they haven't so far.

I then called a very knowledgeable chap at Buchan's. We had a good long chat and the summary of that is that he knew of the issue very well and pretty much concurred with the Westfalia guy. He said that the BMW towbar could well be ok but, like Westfalia, couldn't guarantee or recommend it. His recommendation was to stick with the Strada and to raise the clamp arms and turn handlebars on bike 1.

It's a shame but I'm not going to take the chance with the longer towbar.

 

[B J G]

Forgot to say that my previous conclusion was to have a permanently fitted towbar with the old flange type bolt on ball and put a spacer in to move the ball out from the bumper. Unfortunately that would have to be done at the ordering stage.
Not keen on ankle bashing though.

Was there any mention of the UK made product?

 

[Seán Kerr]

Forgot to say that my previous conclusion was to have a permanently fitted towbar with the old flange type bolt on ball and put a spacer in to move the ball out from the bumper. Unfortunately that would have to be done at the ordering stage.
Not keen on ankle bashing though.

Was there any mention of the UK made product?

I'd personally rather turn the clamps and bars on one bike rather than have a permanent towbar looking at me and ready to assault my shins.

Sorry I didn't mention the UK one specifically but did mention @WelshGas's 2cm longer factory towbar on his T5. I challenged him to say that surely that longer T5 towbar would be fine on a T6. He said probably but couldn't confirm / guarantee. I guess they can only commit to what's specifically been tested. Also, he categorically said that they had tried to find a solution and couldn’t (the testing was done under the UK director's instruction) but I'm not sure if the UK one that you're referring to was part of that.

 

[California4x4]

Experience with the 929 has been mixed. My first one (never a good indication) when I locked the clamping mechanism with the key never unlocked again. I’m please I bought it locally as I returned with it, asked them to order me a new one and then watched them dismantle the clamping mechanism to remove it. My second one (photo above) is working perfectly. It functions as I want it to, is solid in transit, and the locks are all working properly. Thule locks don’t have a good reputation after a brief google search.

 

[B J G]

Just thought I'd update my tow hitch findings and bike carrier purchase.

Photo 1 is standard T6 towball. Photo 2 is Audi A4 towball.

I finally went for an Atera DL3 following advice given on here. The final deciding factor was that the Thule wouldn't fit inside the Cali, too wide at 1.3mtrs. Atera 1mtr and goes in foot area through side door.
Atera would need less storage space when not in use.
I do have a personal bias towards the Thule products.

Towhitch, I had acquired an Audi A4 one and it moves the ball out and up. The up part giving better ground clearance, a consideration as I have air suspension with lowered carpark entry mode.

On test no tailgate opening problem other than with a bike that has straight handlebars the tailgate hit the handlebar by about 3-4" when the bike was in first position.That was with bike rack in tilt and tailgate about half open. Boot could be accessed but tailgate would need holding away from bike handlebar. Same with both towballs. Can be overcome by using 2nd mounting or turning handlebar.

 

[T6 CFO]

Just thought I'd update my tow hitch findings and bike carrier purchase.

I finally went for an Atera DL3 following advice given on here. The final deciding factor was that the Thule wouldn't fit inside the Cali, too wide at 1.3mtrs. Atera 1mtr and goes in foot area through side door.
Atera would need less storage space.
I do have a personal bias towards the Thule products.

Towhitch, I had acquired an Audi A4 one and it moves the ball out and up. The up part giving better ground clearance, a consideration as I have air suspension with lowered carpark entry mode.

On test no tailgate opening problem other than with a bike that has straight handlebars the tailgate hit the handlebar by about 3-4" when the bike was in first position.That was with bike rack in tilt and tailgate about half open. Same with both towballs. Can be overcome by using 2nd mounting or turning handlebar.

I'll add photos to show tow hitches later. Current ones have trailer attached.

Prompted me to give a quick word of caution with the Atera as I got caught out with it not locking in the forward position, something I thought I had checked. Some WD 40sprayed up into the sliding mechanism made it slide much easier and make a more positive click when locked as I was beginning to struggle with operating it.

Mike