BBC Panorama this evening

[GrannyJen]

Oh yes I do enjoy my life and will do anything that prolongs it which includes not chatting to the Mrs when riding by her side.
If she can’t hear me riding behind her then it just has to wait.
Having a pair of ear buds listening to a podcast or music to me is a recipe for disaster.
Is this limited to 2 abreast or can you just make the rules as you ride along?

Jo and ! have Sena R1 helmets which connect over bluetooth. It means we can be quite a distance apart and still enjoy a normal conversation. Like you I am very nervous about riding side by side.

 

[Amarillo]

Cardiff Barrage. Speed limit 5 and 10mph.
Combined cycle pedestrian route.
It has radar speed signs. Regularly flashing On, and it's not the pedestrians.

So the comment that cyclists rarely if ever break posted speed limits is blatantly incorrect.

Likewise the 20mph limits on residential roads.

Are the “speed limits” on the Cardiff Barrage enforceable either through the criminal or civil courts, or are they advisory and not really limits at all.

Similarly, in Wales, do the national speed limits for motor vehicles apply to cyclists?

I know that speed limits in Royal Parks and HM Dockyards apply to cyclists.

 

[RodCouncil]

Is this limited to 2 abreast or can you just make the rules as you ride along?

Most of us race at the sharp end of Swedish cycling and have been at this for decades so we've got our brains plugged in, it nearly almost doesn't need saying, hand signals and last rider shouts 'bil bakom' and we file into position, like most who are experienced at something, safety always comes first.

 

[GrannyJen]

One of the few YouTube channels I follow.

His dad is Phil Neal, Liverpool and England full back

 

[GrannyJen]

It has radar speed signs. Regularly flashing On, and it's not the pedestrians.

I was very flattered by those speed signs flashing on when I ran the Cardiff half.

Somewhat deflated though when I was overtaken by one of the Marshalls on his bike racing to an incident 100 yards further up

 

[Amarillo]

Its unusual to see a car get much above walking pace.

Is that because they’d crash into the car in front if they went any faster or because once drivers get into central London they become uniquely law abiding?

At the traffic lights in central Lewisham I typically observe 2 or 3 motorists pass the lights after they have changed. That suggests to me that somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of motorists jump red lights: far higher in either case than the number of cyclists who ignore red lights.

 

[andyinluton]

At the traffic lights in central Lewisham I typically observe 2 or 3 motorists pass the lights after they have changed. That suggests to me that somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of motorists jump red lights: far higher in either case than the number of cyclists who ignore red lights.

Either you need some maths lessons or the traffic lights need sorting.

If 2 motorists passing through a light at red represents 2/3rds of motorists, that would indicate that for each change of the lights only one car can get through on the green phase. If that is the case I am not at all surprised that a few extra cars go through. I am not condoning their behaviour but could understand it.

 

[GrannyJen]

Is that because they’d crash into the car in front if they went any faster or because once drivers get into central London they become uniquely law abiding?

At the traffic lights in central Lewisham I typically observe 2 or 3 motorists pass the lights after they have changed. That suggests to me that somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of motorists jump red lights: far higher in either case than the number of cyclists who ignore red lights.

It seems to be where a selectively biased survey takes place.

My commute home from Worthing. I leave Liverpool place and walk my bike through a pedestrianised area taking care not to get flattened by a w*nker on two wheels or an even bigger w*nker on en electric scooter.

Passing Marks and Spencer I cycle along the coast road for 2.5 kilometres, 3 pedestrian lights and I appear to most a creature from outer space as I actually stop, along with most steel boxes, at red lights. I am an endangered species, it seems that most cyclists feel entitled to totally ignore pedestrian lights.

I then get to KG5 roundabout, turn right, using the road as opposed to most other cyclists who wishing to continue westwards do so along the clearly designated coastal footpath ignoring the no cycling signs.

A couple of miles farther on I catch up to the other end of the coastal footpath and turn right unlike most others who choose to then cycle along Pattersons walk, a clearly designated tarmac footpath.

Finally, reaching home, I might suggest to Jo we go to our favourite restaurant in Angmering, avoiding the mostly under 21 future organ donors who seem to think that doing wheelies over the level crossing, on bikes without lights, heads without helmets and clothes admirably suited for night time camouflage manoeuvres is a very clever thing to do.

 

[WelshGas]

Are the “speed limits” on the Cardiff Barrage enforceable either through the criminal or civil courts, or are they advisory and not really limits at all.

Similarly, in Wales, do the national speed limits for motor vehicles apply to cyclists?

I know that speed limits in Royal Parks and HM Dockyards apply to cyclists.

To be honest - I couldn't care a toss. They are there to ensure cyclists don't mow down the elderly and children who frequent that recreational facility and safely navigate the bollards. I've been fortunate to see a few cyclists there who have ignored the speed limits and cycle at speed between the safety bollards and fail to make it. They haven't been injured but they had a long walk back with their bent bikes.

Well seeing as we have a proposed 20 mph limit for Residential streets, if it is only for motorised vehicles then I can see a lot more problems for cyclists on the Valley, residential roads.

 

[Amarillo]

Either you need some maths lessons or the traffic lights need sorting.

If 2 motorists passing through a light at red represents 2/3rds of motorists, that would indicate that for each change of the lights only one car can get through on the green phase. If that is the case I am not at all surprised that a few extra cars go through. I am not condoning their behaviour but could understand it.

Four cars. Three pass through the lights after they change. That’s 3/4 right???

It’s not reasonable to include the fifth and subsequent cars in the calculation as the fourth car is blocking their passage. The only vehicles with the opportunity to ignore the lights are the ones ahead of the vehicle that actually bothers to stop as well as the one which has stopped. All others need to be discarded from the survey.

 

[GrannyJen]

hat suggests to me that somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of motorists jump red lights: far higher in either case than the number of cyclists who ignore red lights.

You must live on a different planet to me.

At that meeting I mentioned before, a meeting to listen to plans to make a town more "bicycle friendly", the vast majority were so bicycle-unfriendly it made me shuffle my helmet under my seat to avoid being lynched.

One of the big red flags was cyclists jumping red lights with impunity as they could not be identified. I hear this over and over again.

 

[soulstyledevon]

One of the big red flags was cyclists jumping red lights with impunity as they could not be identified. I hear this over and over again.

That’s just a polarised view point.
If cycling through red lights was really such an endemic issue? Why hasn’t local law enforcement took action against these individuals. If it’s happening on such a regular occurrence, it would be easy enough to setup a sting operation and take action on this…

Just out of interest, how many recorded incidents of cyclist going through red lights were officially recorded last year…???

 

[GrannyJen]

That’s just a polarised view point.
If cycling through red lights was really such an endemic issue? Why hasn’t local law enforcement took action against these individuals. If it’s happening on such a regular occurrence, it would be easy enough to setup a sting operation and take action on this…

Just out of interest, how many recorded incidents of cyclist going through red lights were officially recorded last year…???

If it is so polarised why is it repeated so often?

I'm not anti-cycling, I love cycling, but I'm enough of a realist to be able to look squarely in the face the attitude there is to cyclists in this country and not just pretend it is some form of hobgoblin thinking that doesn't need thinking about.

 

[soulstyledevon]

If it is so polarised why is it repeated so often?

I'm not anti-cycling, I love cycling, but I'm enough of a realist to be able to look squarely in the face the attitude there is to cyclists in this country and not just pretend it is some form of hobgoblin thinking that doesn't need thinking about.

Ok, so give me some stats.
Give me the numbers of tickets issued to cyclist running red lights in 2021 vs car drivers…

 

[Amarillo]

You must live on a different planet to me.

At that meeting I mentioned before, a meeting to listen to plans to make a town more "bicycle friendly", the vast majority were so bicycle-unfriendly it made me shuffle my helmet under my seat to avoid being lynched.

One of the big red flags was cyclists jumping red lights with impunity as they could not be identified. I hear this over and over again.

No one denies that some cyclists jump some red lights.

But why are motorists so angry at this? Is it because they think the cyclists are putting the motorist’s life in danger, or is it because they are annoyed that they can’t do the same because of the one in four law abiding motorist who has stopped at the red light in front of them?

I ask because we already know the little regard most drivers have for the speed limit. Even if caught many will say things like “I was only going a few miles an hour over the limit”, or “I wish the police would catch proper criminals”.

When you delve a little deeper, a few miles an hour is 27 in a 20 zone (a full 35% over the limit); and they don’t consider speeding a (proper) criminal act. It is.

 

[GrannyJen]

No one denies that some cyclists jump some red lights.

But why are motorists so angry at this? Is it because they think the cyclists are putting the motorist’s life in danger, or is it because they are annoyed that they can’t do the same because of the one in four law abiding motorist who has stopped at the red light in front of them?

I ask because we already know the little regard most drivers have for the speed limit. Even if caught many will say things like “I was only going a few miles an hour over the limit”, or “I wish the police would catch proper criminals”.

When you delve a little deeper, a few miles an hour is 27 in a 20 zone (a full 35% over the limit); and they don’t consider speeding a (proper) criminal act. It is.

You have to ask Tom, why cyclists are a red light to so many people, not just motorists.

We are not going to get the infrastructure or the facilities to enjoy cycling in this country, on a par with other countries in Europe, until we challenge that antipathy by putting right the absolutely idiotic attitude so many people on two wheels portray.

We need everyone else with us, not against us as was so evident from that meeting last week.

 

[GrannyJen]

Ok, so give me some stats.
Give me the numbers of tickets issued to cyclist running red lights in 2021 vs car drivers…

I don't need to. I just need to open my eyes, clear my ears and listen, to everyone I ever meet, who seems to have a grudge against cyclists.

"give me the stats" is a cop out. It's a cop out to the fact that at almost every level, including cyclists such as myself, people seem to think we are a tax-avoiding, law ignoring bunch of entitled tw*ts who are quite happy to scatter every pedestrian in our way whilst telling the world how poorly treated we are by the motorist.

Until we recognise that and challenge it then we might as well say goodbye to the cycling infrastructure this country so badly needs.

 

[Amarillo]

Ok, so give me some stats.
Give me the numbers of tickets issued to cyclist running red lights in 2021 vs car drivers…

Quick google

2014
7000 cyclists fined for riding on the pavement with a fine of up to £1000.
4000 cyclists fined for jumping red lights.

2021
2,000,000 motorists fined for speeding (2.4m tickets issued, 0.4m successfully challenged)

Using dodgy logic, a motorist is 500 times more likely to speed than a cyclist is to jump a red light.

 

[GrannyJen]

Quick google

2014
7000 cyclists fined for riding on the pavement with a fine of up to £1000.
4000 cyclists fined for jumping red lights.

2021
2,000,000 motorists fined for speeding (2.4m tickets issued, 0.4m successfully challenged)

Using dodgy logic, a motorist is 500 times more likely to speed than a cyclist is to jump a red light.

Oh Tom, please!!!!

You've just, in one stroke, made a case for bicycles to be registered and to display an identification plate.

Thanks mate. That is something I have spent a week arguing against.

 

[Amarillo]

These two children (or their parents) face a fine of up to £1000 each for riding on the pavement. Meanwhile, the driver (or registered keeper) of the car blocking the cycle lane is doing nothing unlawful.

 

[PhilR]

Yes I ride a cycle and a motorcycle and drive various 4 wheeled vehicles so can understand the sentiment from all angles.
On a cycle and a motorcycle the chances are that if you hit a car or a car hits you then at least it’s going to hurt you and not the car driver. So when we go out I always put my defensive hat on. It doesn’t matter who is right and who is wrong it will be you that gets hurt unless you are a masochist that’s not a good idea as legs and collarbones take longer to heal in your 70s.
One thing I don’t understand as a cyclist why would I want to ride side by side with another cyclist unless I just wanted to be bloody minded or had a death wish. I wouldn’t ride side by side with another motorcyclist so why on a cycle?
Can anyone tell me?

As a road cyclist I never ride side by side. Yes it’s ok to do according to the Highway Code, but does that make it ok? As a car driver I can see why it annoys people. I can see the benefits but I’m sorry, you ask any non cycling car drivers and most think it’s daft.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Quick google

2014
7000 cyclists fined for riding on the pavement with a fine of up to £1000.
4000 cyclists fined for jumping red lights.

2021
2,000,000 motorists fined for speeding (2.4m tickets issued, 0.4m successfully challenged)

Using dodgy logic, a motorist is 500 times more likely to speed than a cyclist is to jump a red light.

4000 cyclists fined from a population of 68m.
The stats say it all really…

 

[RodCouncil]

As a road cyclist I never ride side by side. Yes it’s ok to do according to the Highway Code, but does that make it ok? As a car driver I can see why it annoys people. I can see the benefits but I’m sorry, you ask any non cycling car drivers and most think it’s daft.

Or you could do as we do, stick to the law and when in groups and go single when safe to do so

Highway Code – Riding two abreast

Changes to the Highway Code have provoked plenty more discussion this week. Here, our Policy Manager Nick Chamberlin reflects on the changes for people on bikes riding ‘two abreast’.

www.britishcycling.org.uk

 

[RodCouncil]

4000 cyclists fined from a population of 68m.
The stats say it all really…

Not all of them can ride bikes, or even chose to, is it possible that more do it but the threshold for enforcement is too low?

 

[GrannyJen]

These two children (or their parents) face a fine of up to £1000 each for riding on the pavement. Meanwhile, the driver (or registered keeper) of the car blocking the cycle lane is doing nothing unlawful.

Another hackneyed video that's doing the rounds.

It's no wonder Tom that in some quarters cyclists are so reviled when we keep getting "them v us" posted on the internet.

Those kids and parents were not facing a £1,000 fine, they COULD be facing a £50 FPN IF an up-his-Arris traffic policeman was passing by, but hugely unlikely and of course they are not identifiable whilst the car parked over the cycle lane is thus prompting the old hackneyed cry of "they don't pay road taxes, why aren't cyclists living to the same rules as us".

It's not motorists v us, it's justifying a cycling infrastructure that separates us from the steel cage and this constant retreating to "who does what" is only exacerbating the difficulties in the way to achieving that.