BBC Panorama this evening

[WelshGas]

Have you ever heard of facial recognition technology?

Yes, but unless ALL citizens are photographed for the Database only people with previous convictions will have their mugshots on the database and hence be identified. Try again.

 

[WelshGas]

I disagree.
GrannyGen stated there’s a nationwide endemic of cyclist jumping red lights, yet very few prosecutions…?
If the situation was that bad, which btw it isn’t. Then it would be easy for the authorities to catch out and fine cyclists and set/make an example and easily funded with the million upon millions of pounds generated from these fines.

The reality is, it’s complete nonsense. It’s justifiable garbage thrown at a segment of society to polarise views…

UTTER NONSENSE

Spoken like a True member of the Lycra Brigade who can Do No Wrong. I think you must be living on a different planet.

I can just imagine a red light jumper being stopped by Mr Plod on foot. Asked to identify himself, refuses or has no identifying documents on his person. Arrested. Paddy wagon to out of town Police Station + bicycle. Processed, photographed, identity confirmed, released. Slap on wrist etc: etc:.

Motorist jumps lights. Camera flash, 2 weeks later PNC to Owners home address, fine/points or court.

Which would you concentrate on?

 

[Amarillo]

So motorists are guilty because they might have done it if the opportunity arose.

Absolutely not. Motorists who have no opportunity to jump lights are simply discarded from the survey. Neither guilty or innocent .

If you think about it, you’ll know it makes sense.

 

[andyinluton]

Absolutely not. Motorists who have no opportunity to jump lights are simply discarded from the survey. Neither guilty or innocent .

If you think about it, you’ll know it makes sense.

If you think about it properly, you might wan't to agree that you once seeng 2 cars go through a Red light cannot really be extrapolated to show that 3/4 of car drivers in the UK are guilty whilst protesting the innocence of all cyclists despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[GrannyJen]

I disagree.
GrannyGen stated there’s a nationwide endemic of cyclist jumping red lights, yet very few prosecutions…?
If the situation was that bad, which btw it isn’t. Then it would be easy for the authorities to catch out and fine cyclists and set/make an example and easily funded with the million upon millions of pounds generated from these fines.

The reality is, it’s complete nonsense. It’s justifiable garbage thrown at a segment of society to polarise views…

UTTER NONSENSE

No.

I said it happens often as does other aspects of appalling cycling behaviour.

Keep it up. All you are campaigning for is what every cyclist does not want. Mandatory registration of bicycles.

What I want is an infrastructure that separates cyclist from motorist. To do that we, the people that do not plonk our head in the sand, have to admit there is a huge antagonism towards cyclists from other road users, they see cyclists as being an entitled bunch who have all the rules and enforcement in their favour. If we, cyclists, want to persuade others that it is in their interests to separate human flesh from mechanically propelled steel then we need to persuade otherwise.

Extolling a practice of deliberate antagonism towards others will IMO achieve the opposite.

 

[sidepod]

I think we need to make a distinction between “cyclist” and “just-another-arsehole-who-happens-to-be-on-a-bike”. The cycle riding red light jumper would do the same in his car. He’d probably chuck his MacD litter out of the window at the same time.

The problem isn’t bad cyclist it’s just too many t***s.

 

[Amarillo]

If you think about it properly, you might wan't to agree that you once seeng 2 cars go through a Red light cannot really be extrapolated to show that 3/4 of car drivers in the UK are guilty whilst protesting the innocence of all cyclists despite evidence to the contrary.

If two drivers amber gamble, then the third stops it is 2/3 of drivers jumping the red light not 3/4.

I have never suggested that all cyclists are innocent. Myself included: I won’t allow my boys to ride on the road as they should when following the A20 through Mottingham. They ride unlawfully on the pavement. I’m not comfortable with this because of the message it sends them “it’s ok to break the law if you think the law is wrong”; but I’d be less comfortable with them riding on the road as the law says they must.

 

[andyinluton]

If two drivers amber gamble, then the third stops it is 2/3 of drivers jumping the red light not 3/4.

I have never suggested that all cyclists are innocent. Myself included: I won’t allow my boys to ride on the road as they should when following the A20 through Mottingham.

Sorry, your maths seems to change in every post. We can however agree that based on the statistics you have provided somewhere between zero and 100% of car drivers jump red lights. Hard to be more accurate than that.

That has cycling down the A20 got to do with jumping red lights?

 

[The Tall Luthier]

One day guys you’ll look back on this discussion and wonder why you didn’t just pack up your Cali and go for a weekender instead!

I’m currently sat on a public bus heading towards the bridge over the river Kwei. @Amarillo I’ll be sure to post my findings in bridges.

 

[Amarillo]

Sorry, your maths seems to change in every post. We can however agree that based on the statistics you have provided somewhere between zero and 100% of car drivers jump red lights. Hard to be more accurate than that.

That has cycling down the A20 got to do with jumping red lights?

Both cyclists on the pavement, and cyclists jumping red lights have been cited as annoying a certain type of driver. I have given an example where I allow those in my charge to openly flout the law, and my thought process to justify it.

 

[WelshGas]

I hope we are all in agreement that there are certain members of the car driving fraternity that through their actions give the law abiding vehicle drivers a bad reputation amongst the cycling fraternity. Likewise there is a group of cyclists who through their actions tarnish the reputation of law abiding cyclists amongst the driving fraternity.
The problem is the car driver who flouts the Law can be identified and brought to justice as the vehicle can be identified.
If cyclists wish to improve their reputation of perceived widespread lawlessness amongst the vehicle driving and pedestrian fraternity then they, or others, have to come up with a system in which the cycling louts, who are tarnishing the reputation of the many , can be identified and brought to task for their behaviour.
At the moment formal registration of all bicycles/cyclists is the only methodology on the table.
So the question for all cyclists is " What alternative methods will enhance your reputation as law abiding road users "?

Just saying No to bicycle registration will not address the problem.

 

[Amarillo]

I hope we are all in agreement that there are certain members of the car driving fraternity that through their actions give the law abiding vehicle drivers a bad reputation amongst the cycling fraternity. Likewise there is a group of cyclists who through their actions tarnish the reputation of law abiding cyclists amongst the driving fraternity.
The problem is the car driver who flouts the Law can be identified and brought to justice as the vehicle can be identified.
If cyclists wish to improve their reputation of perceived widespread lawlessness amongst the vehicle driving and pedestrian fraternity then they, or others, have to come up with a system in which the cycling louts, who are tarnishing the reputation of the many , can be identified and brought to task for their behaviour.
At the moment formal registration of all bicycles/cyclists is the only methodology on the table.
So the question for all cyclists is " What alternative methods will enhance your reputation as law abiding road users "?

Just saying No to bicycle registration will not address the problem.

Cyclist registration is only on the table for a deluded few.

It ain’t going to happen for exactly the same reasons that the Swiss gave up on the “Velo Vignette” which was in place between 1892 and 2012.

It’s a silly idea.

 

[RodCouncil]

I hope we are all in agreement that there are certain members of the car driving fraternity that through their actions give the law abiding vehicle drivers a bad reputation amongst the cycling fraternity. Likewise there is a group of cyclists who through their actions tarnish the reputation of law abiding cyclists amongst the driving fraternity.
The problem is the car driver who flouts the Law can be identified and brought to justice as the vehicle can be identified.
If cyclists wish to improve their reputation of perceived widespread lawlessness amongst the vehicle driving and pedestrian fraternity then they, or others, have to come up with a system in which the cycling louts, who are tarnishing the reputation of the many , can be identified and brought to task for their behaviour.
At the moment formal registration of all bicycles/cyclists is the only methodology on the table.
So the question for all cyclists is " What alternative methods will enhance your reputation as law abiding road users "?

Just saying No to bicycle registration will not address the problem.

It's called National ID, we all have it the Nordics, you get asked to produce your ID and guess what, you f**k up, you get prosecuted.

Applies to bicycles, cars, scooters......you name it.

 

[GrannyJen]

I hope we are all in agreement that there are certain members of the car driving fraternity that through their actions give the law abiding vehicle drivers a bad reputation amongst the cycling fraternity. Likewise there is a group of cyclists who through their actions tarnish the reputation of law abiding cyclists amongst the driving fraternity.
The problem is the car driver who flouts the Law can be identified and brought to justice as the vehicle can be identified.
If cyclists wish to improve their reputation of perceived widespread lawlessness amongst the vehicle driving and pedestrian fraternity then they, or others, have to come up with a system in which the cycling louts, who are tarnishing the reputation of the many , can be identified and brought to task for their behaviour.
At the moment formal registration of all bicycles/cyclists is the only methodology on the table.
So the question for all cyclists is " What alternative methods will enhance your reputation as law abiding road users "?

Just saying No to bicycle registration will not address the problem.

When I went to school there were very few cars and the school run did not exist so this may be irrelevant ...

but...

If I wished to cycle to school then I either had to pass, or be in the process of passing, a cycle proficiency course. From the very outset in created in me a recognition that I had a responsibility in the way I rode a bike.

We could argue for more policing ... the three pedestrian light lottery on Worthing's main coastal road was blitzed recently by police who hauled cyclists over as they routinely ignored the red light but then that all disappeared against the usual comments of "Can't bother to go to a burglary but can harass the innocent motorist/cyclist etc..."

Registration sounds easy, and after a comment made to me by my great nephew, highly desirable but would cost outweigh benefit and how can it be enforced? Most number plate detection today is by NPR camera's but how on earth do you fix a standard number plate to a bicycle without it becoming a hazard and creating even more passing distance between car and cyclist?

 

[GrannyJen]

It's called National ID, we all have it the Nordics, you get asked to produce your ID and guess what, you f**k up, you get prosecuted.

Applies to bicycles, cars, scooters......you name it.

It means having ID cards ....

try getting that through parliament.

 

[WelshGas]

Cyclist registration is only on the table for a deluded few.

It ain’t going to happen for exactly the same reasons that the Swiss gave up on the “Velo Vignette” which was in place between 1892 and 2012.

It’s a silly idea.

I said for you “ cyclists “ to come up with a viable method to restore your group reputation. But I see we get the usual , No, and no alternative.

 

[WelshGas]

It's called National ID, we all have it the Nordics, you get asked to produce your ID and guess what, you f**k up, you get prosecuted.

Applies to bicycles, cars, scooters......you name it.

Thank you. At last a sensible idea. Whether it would be acceptable to the public is another matter. I’ve had an ID card of one sort or another for all my adult life so see no problem.

But I notice you are the only “ cyclist “ so far who has come up with an alternative to cycle registration.

 

[WelshGas]

It means having ID cards ....

try getting that through parliament.

It would be interesting to know how many members of the population do Not already have some form of ID card.
Workplace ID
Driving Liscence
Passport
Bus Pass or Railcard
etc. etc.

 

[Wildcamper]

It means having ID cards ....

try getting that through parliament.

I think we should have ID cards. The sooner the better.

 

[GrannyJen]

I think we should have ID cards. The sooner the better.

Quite agree.

Sadly the last time an introduction was proposed so parliament disagreed with us.,

 

[GrannyJen]

It would be interesting to know how many members of the population do Not already have some form of ID card.
Workplace ID
Driving Liscence
Passport
Bus Pass or Railcard
etc. etc.

One of my great nephews loves to tell a story about how he got seriously drunk on his bicycle one night, cycled into the side of the car doing serious damage to the car and sadly not to himself, and then disappeared after leaving a false name and address.

Ever since he related that discussion to me the thought of the desirability of having proof of identification needing to be carried by law has played around in my mind.

 

[RodCouncil]

It means having ID cards ....

try getting that through parliament

Quite agree.

This is the crux of it, everyone wants accountability but acting like a citizen means being identifiable too.

 

[Amarillo]

I think we should have ID cards. The sooner the better.

Would people be expected to carry them? If not, there’s no benefit in mandating them.

I’m not in favour because it is too much interference by Government.

 

[WelshGas]

Would people be expected to carry them? If not, there’s no benefit in mandating them.

I’m not in favour because it is too much interference by Government.

Why?

Do you wish to hide your identity? and if so , Why?

Do you have a Passport or Driving Licence? Many countries insist on carrying a form of identification, or driving Licence + insurance details if driving.

 

[RodCouncil]

Would people be expected to carry them? If not, there’s no benefit in mandating them.

I’m not in favour because it is too much interference by Government.

Yes they are, but no harm done if you don't because you have a personal number that can be checked, DoB+4 digits here in Sweden.

On your second point you're talking absolute sh*te