Beginner's Question - "If everything was OFF then the Leisure Batteries should hold a charge for Months not 4 weeks."

[KernowMaid]

Leisure batteries should hold their charge for months with everything switched off - is that right? I have spent all weekend reading pages and pages of threads about leisure batteries and I think I have confused myself. So I am sorry to post this question when I know there will be many experienced posters on here rolling their eyes about yet another leisure battery question. I will try to give as much context as possible in the hope that this will help the experts out there!

We picked up our August 2020 190 bhp BMT Cali Ocean just over three weeks ago from a VW dealer and were told it was a VW HQ vehicle. It has done just over 7k miles.

When we collected it the dealer had had it on hook-up for 12 hours. When we brought it home we hooked it up again. Went away for the bank holiday and hooked it up to prep the van and get the fridge going etc. Used it for one night without EHU and used fridge and heater that night. Kept the fridge going for the 3 days. It was driven a lot during the day for that weekend with the return journey being some 270 miles. Returned and switched everything off. It has been driven daily over the last two weeks. I am aware of the importance of maintaining the batteries by hooking them up for 24 hours once a month. We haven't even had it for a month but this weekend I checked the battery display and it showed 11.2V 0% 0,0 A in spite of a long charge a couple of weeks ago and regular driving since.

I immediately hooked it up and the display then showed 12.6V 10.0A (nothing else switched on)
Three hours later I had to drive somewhere and the display showed that the alternator is charging the batteries and the display went to 13.1V 9.8A
On return I hooked up again and left it for 24 hours
Unplugged and reading then showed 13.1V 100% 0,0A
This morning it has gone to 12.5V 80% 0.0A

I have seen the chart below posted several times on the threads but how long should the batteries hold their full charge for when there is no drain on the battery? I have checked that all lights are off, the green light isn't on in the inverter, fridge and heater are off. I saw the quote in the thread title on a very old thread and it got me wondering if my batteries are not holding their charge. As the Cali is still under warranty I do not want to be removing things etc but I would welcome some advice please. With everything (including the overhead display panel) switched off should the batteries hold their charge better than what I am currently seeing? Thank you.

Edit 18 June 2021 to save anyone trawling through the thread. Yes, the batteries should hold their charge better than that and were replaced by the dealer under warranty.

 

[Loz]

Have you turned off the control panel itself? (press the power button twice)

 

[KernowMaid]

Hello. Yes, I noted from several threads that it was important to do that. So when I switch it on I see the VW logo first before the info. That means I have turned off the panel doesn't it?

 

[WelshGas]

Leisure batteries should hold their charge for months with everything switched off - is that right? I have spent all weekend reading pages and pages of threads about leisure batteries and I think I have confused myself. So I am sorry to post this question when I know there will be many experienced posters on here rolling their eyes about yet another leisure battery question. I will try to give as much context as possible in the hope that this will help the experts out there!

We picked up our August 2020 190 bhp BMT Cali Ocean just over three weeks ago from a VW dealer and were told it was a VW HQ vehicle. It has done just over 7k miles.

When we collected it the dealer had had it on hook-up for 12 hours. When we brought it home we hooked it up again. Went away for the bank holiday and hooked it up to prep the van and get the fridge going etc. Used it for one night without EHU and used fridge and heater that night. Kept the fridge going for the 3 days. It was driven a lot during the day for that weekend with the return journey being some 270 miles. Returned and switched everything off. It has been driven daily over the last two weeks. I am aware of the importance of maintaining the batteries by hooking them up for 24 hours once a month. We haven't even had it for a month but this weekend I checked the battery display and it showed 11.2V 0% 0,0 A in spite of a long charge a couple of weeks ago and regular driving since.

I immediately hooked it up and the display then showed 12.6V 10.0A (nothing else switched on)
Three hours later I had to drive somewhere and the display showed that the alternator is charging the batteries and the display went to 13.1V 9.8A
On return I hooked up again and left it for 24 hours
Unplugged and reading then showed 13.1V 100% 0,0A
This morning it has gone to 12.5V 80% 0.0A

I have seen the chart below posted several times on the threads but how long should the batteries hold their full charge for when there is no drain on the battery? I have checked that all lights are off, the green light isn't on in the inverter, fridge and heater are off. I saw the quote in the thread title on a very old thread and it got me wondering if my batteries are not holding their charge. As the Cali is still under warranty I do not want to be removing things etc but I would welcome some advice please. With everything (including the overhead display panel) switched off should the batteries hold their charge better than what I am currently seeing? Thank you.

View attachment 78961

Before fitting a Solar Panel I drove to Heathrow and left it parked up for 6 weeks. The Control Panel was on, screen working initially showing 12.7v and then blank screen after 30 secs. On my return, Control Panel showed 12.6 v. So it had dropped a grand total of 0.1v over 6 weeks.
Although the vehicle was owned by VW initially the liklihood the Leisure Batteries were looked after properly are slim to nonexistent.

 

[KernowMaid]

Hello WelshGas. Thank you for sharing your example. That's helpful. It sounds like I should be expecting better performance from the batteries than what I am currently getting then.

 

[KernowMaid]

I will contact my dealer. If anyone is able to share examples similar to WelshGas that would give me more ammunition. Thank you!

 

[WelshGas]

I will contact my dealer. If anyone is able to share examples similar to WelshGas that would give me more ammunition. Thank you!

Ignore the % calculation. It's an indication and not that accurate unlike the voltage. Also, because of the smart alternator, regenerative Braking etc; the engine will only charge to 80% capacity both engine and leisure batteries. Hence the need for mains charging.

 

[KernowMaid]

Thanks, yes that's good advice. Nonetheless a drop from 13.1v to 12.5v overnight with no drain on the battery can't be great, can it?

 

[WelshGas]

Thanks, yes that's good advice. Nonetheless a drop from 13.1v to 12.5v overnight with no drain on the battery can't be great, can it?

After charging, mains or engine, you should wait for at least 30 mins before taking a note of the voltage. This gives time for the battery to settle.

 

[Eber123]

Hello KernowMaid,

The voltage and usage of the leisure batteries is a huge secret to me. Like you I spend a lot time reading up here in the forum, other forums and on the web. But that didn't make me any the wiser.

The van is my daily drive, so it is in use almost every day (even if it is only short distances). Also I hook it up to main power every month. After 4x years I believe the batteries are in good orders.

But, as you mentioned, the voltage varies rather often in a ways I don't expect. Have I said that it never came down to 11.2 V.

I try to keep an eye on it, but if it is halfway within reason I leave it as it is. Only if it comes down to 11 V for a couple of weeks I will consider to replace the batteries. I hope it will last until next year (I believe it is not cheap to replace batteries).

What I am trying to say, there is always a specific up and down of the voltage of the batteries and as mentioned before I would not trust the users of VW to hook it up once a month to the main. It might have been a pool car for people to try. Which means nobody feels responsible for it.

I would start communication with the dealer to replace the leisure batteries.

Happy leisure power California,
Eberhard

 

[Drpps]

It would also be worth checking that both leisure batteries are connected. I am not sure if it is the same on the 6.1 but there is a fuse on the second leisure battery, in the rear, which can blow, so then only running on one battery. If that has gone and you have only been running on one battery, with the lack of charging prior to your ownership, it might be shot, but the other battery could be fine. https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/fuse-on-positive-leisure-battery-terminal.19122/
Either way that doesn't sound right and involves the dealers checking the batteries. They probably both need replacing. Do you know the manufacturing date (not the date of first registration)? With Covid it could have been sitting a while before shipment. The dealer would know, and might give an idea if that was the case.

 

[KernowMaid]

Hello Eberhard! I'm glad it's not just me feeling non the wiser! But getting some great advice now.

Thanks Drpps. I was wondering about that after reading that and other similar threads. I found a sticky on the user manual and I think the manufacture date was Nov 2019.

The dealer said they normally check battery health so is getting the report from the service dept. I think there was a useful thread on here about what to look for and ask about that regarding the test report so I will dig that out.

 

[Drpps]

Hello Eberhard! I'm glad it's not just me feeling non the wiser! But getting some great advice now.

Thanks Drpps. I was wondering about that after reading that and other similar threads. I found a sticky on the user manual and I think the manufacture date was Nov 2019.

The dealer said they normally check battery health so is getting the report from the service dept. I think there was a useful thread on here about what to look for and ask about that regarding the test report so I will dig that out.

Needs a retest by the sound of it.

November to August is a long time to be sitting, and they won't have been charged in that time.
If it was November 2019, I would lean quite hard for some replacements.
My 2014 has the original leisure batteries but has been driven or charged consistently. We get 3-4 days off grid with fridge/heater/lights.
I have just had to replace the original engine battery after 95000 miles. Ironically the old one is still reading 12.8v despite sitting in the garage for the last 3 months, so keeping it to jump start our other car if needed.

The other things for you to check is any USB adaptors or devices plugged into the 12V sockets. Or a dashcam wired into the leisure batteries. It sounds as if you have probably ruled these out already.

 

[KernowMaid]

The other things for you to check is any USB adaptors or devices plugged into the 12V sockets. Or a dashcam wired into the leisure batteries. It sounds as if you have probably ruled these out already.

Yes, nothing is left plugged in.

This forum has been so helpful. I started doing my homework before taking delivery of the Cali to try and avoid any silly mistakes. Having only previously hired campers for a couple of weeks at a time, battery health has not been a major concern of mine.

My 2014 has the original leisure batteries but has been driven or charged consistently. We get 3-4 days off grid with fridge/heater/lights.

That's good going and testament to a good battery maintenance regime.

 

[capt kirk]

During lockdown i did a bit of a non scientific test, no ehu and no driving, i left the fridge on and checked the display above the cab each morning and night, no crap here after six days still had 20% left according to the display. fridge was on level 3 but it was very cold outside during that period. batteries are still good after 3.5 years so far. just one thing , i know its not a significant drain but stuff in the boot can sometimes turn the boot leds on without you knowing. worth watching.

 

[KernowMaid]

During lockdown i did a bit of a non scientific test, no ehu and no driving, i left the fridge on and checked the display above the cab each morning and night, no crap here after six days still had 20% left according to the display. fridge was on level 3 but it was very cold outside during that period. batteries are still good after 3.5 years so far. just one thing , i know its not a significant drain but stuff in the boot can sometimes turn the boot leds on without you knowing. worth watching.

Wow. 20% after 6 days of the fridge being on and no driving?

Thanks for the tip re boot LEDs.

 

[Wesel]

During lockdown i did a bit of a non scientific test, no ehu and no driving, i left the fridge on and checked the display above the cab each morning and night, no crap here after six days still had 20% left according to the display. fridge was on level 3 but it was very cold outside during that period. batteries are still good after 3.5 years so far. just one thing , i know its not a significant drain but stuff in the boot can sometimes turn the boot leds on without you knowing. worth watching.

If there was only 20% left, it is not good for the battery. It is not recommended to go that low. There are several threads on this topic on the forum.
See the table in #1: red zone.

 

[KernowMaid]

I have found this fact sheet about leisure batteries very useful so I thought it might be helpful to provide a link for anyone else who might be interested.

https://www.campingandcaravanningcl...nicalhelp/datasheets/guide-leisure-batteries/

 

[marchugo]

The two household batteries of our 2009 California had to be replaced in spring 2020. Twelve years. Kilometrage 112.000. Were still OK, but on the edge, as our dealer told us.

Regards from Amsterdam,

Marc.

 

[KernowMaid]

The two household batteries of our 2009 California had to be replaced in spring 2020. Twelve years. Kilometrage 112.000. Were still OK, but on the edge, as our dealer told us.

Regards from Amsterdam,

Marc.

Thank you, Marc. That's good to know. I am waiting to hear back from the dealer about my query.
I am beginning to suspect that a Cali built in November 2019; landed in UK January 2020; registered August 2020 to VW may not necessarily have had the best of starts for battery health.

 

[KernowMaid]

I thought I would update this thread. I contacted the dealership and they said they would get back to me. Heard nothing. Followed-up. Nothing.
The van was put on hook-up for over 24 hours and then I unhooked, checked nothing was plugged in, switched off control panel and left it on the drive way for 3 days. It has gone down from full after a weekend of charging to 11.2 0% in three days.
I contacted the dealership again and have heard nothing so I have booked the Cali in with another dealer. Really disappointed that all the responsiveness of the salesman when taking a huge chunk of money has completely disappeared when I have been very politely and patiently trying to resolve this issue. I really need to get this sorted as we have a longer road trip all planned and booked for August.

 

[steve_b]

That self discharge is nowhere near right, I would get over 3 days using the fridge.

What does the control panel show when it is on with batteries fully charged but unplugged? -0.2 or something more

 

[Ozzy Pete]

If you gone through the process of checking and knowing nothing that is connected to the leisure batteries is switched on and the batteries run down that quickly then something must be wrong with them. Just before out warranty ran out I noted that the batteries were losing power by 10% per day, NOTHING switched on. On the last day of our warranty I took the van into the dealer and told them the batteries needed checking because of the power loss. Fair enough after checking for a couple of days they told me they had gone bad and would replace them.
I have to say previously I didn’t take the charging the batteries once a month too seriously, I do now as 2 new VW leisure batteries are around £500.
Now I make sure that when it reaches 70% I put them straight on charge.
The thing about holding a charge for very long periods is just not right that’s why VW say 24 hour charge every month. I do that regardless if it’s summer or winter.
Although the leisure batteries are similar to the engine battery they are not the same. Leisure batteries are designed to slowly discharge over a fairly long period without recharge whereas the engine battery is designed to take massive discharges ie starter and lights but only for a very short period before being recharged again by the vehicle alternator.

 

[KernowMaid]

That self discharge is nowhere near right, I would get over 3 days using the fridge.

What does the control panel show when it is on with batteries fully charged but unplugged? -0.2 or something more

It isn't right is it? Although I was beginning to doubt myself when I was getting no reaction from the dealer. The control panel shows nothing more than -0.2 or 0 when fully charged and unplugged so I can't see how there is anything draining them.

 

[steve_b]

It isn't right is it? Although I was beginning to doubt myself when I was getting no reaction from the dealer. The control panel shows nothing more than -0.2 or 0 when fully charged and unplugged so I can't see how there is anything draining them.

It's absolutely not right - I put mine on mains charge once a month and the voltage would have barely dropped from 100% even as the vehicle has barely moved in 18 months due to lockdown so it's not being charged by driving.