Buy all your VW California Accessories at the Club Shop Visit Shop

Bilstien B14 Coilovers?? or sell??

D

drobb

VIP Member
Messages
10
Hi all,

Done a recent post on the poor ride in my California SE 180 DSG.

I'm in a dilemma.... Don't know whether to fit Bilstien B14's or sell the camper, don't want to sell but if I gamble on spending 1400 quid getting these fitted and it doesn't work my wife will probably kill me. She has the opinion that the camper costs a hell of a lot of money for the suspension to be so unrefined, I agree but don't really want to get rid of it. Anyone who has these B14's fitted to a van or a California I would like to know your opinion on how it has changed the ride, better or worse!

Thanks again
David
 
I posted a couple of idea's in your other thread before you take the plunge.
 
Where abouts in the world are you? I try and avoid potholes but I've not thought it is that bad. It is a big heavy thing for the suspension to control though. Perhaps if there is another owner nearby, you can get a trip as a passenger and then take them out as a passenger and see if there appears to be a problem with your specific van?
 
I am in the north east of England. I don't think the roads around here are any worse than anywhere else in the country. I don't find the ride on the motorway or main A roads bad just as soon as you get onto the B roads ( that make up all the best parts of the countryside worth seeing). That's when it gets unbearable. I'm going to do an experiment with a half dozen bags of builders sand in the back. I have driven lots of different vans in the past but never had crashing and banging like this. I did own a t4 autosleeper which we toured all over the uk in. Owned it for 2 years, the ride was so much better and quiet.
 
drobb said:
Hi all,

Done a recent post on the poor ride in my California SE 180 DSG.

I'm in a dilemma.... Don't know whether to fit Bilstien B14's or sell the camper, don't want to sell but if I gamble on spending 1400 quid getting these fitted and it doesn't work my wife will probably kill me. She has the opinion that the camper costs a hell of a lot of money for the suspension to be so unrefined, I agree but don't really want to get rid of it. Anyone who has these B14's fitted to a van or a California I would like to know your opinion on how it has changed the ride, better or worse!

Thanks again
David
Why don't you ask a dealer to drive another similar Cali and confirm that you vehicle has got a suspension fault?
I am sure you realize you can't compare a £45K Cali with a £45K merc and expect the ride to be comparable. One is based on a van design and the other is specifically designed with refinement in mind. In particular the Cali is a large box shape structure with far fewer soft materials. Noises created by potholes etc are going to sound different. All the camping equipment (fridge, cooker, cupboards, awning, elevating roof) are going to rattle a bit. I think if you accept you haven't bought an executive saloon but a campervan you may then be happier!
 
I think Stu mentioned this on your other post, did you buy your Cali second hand? If you did, maybe it was already lowered by the previous owner and they did not tell you? What is the gap between the top of the wheel and wheel arch on the front/back wheels?
 
beardie said:
drobb said:
Hi all,

Done a recent post on the poor ride in my California SE 180 DSG.

I'm in a dilemma.... Don't know whether to fit Bilstien B14's or sell the camper, don't want to sell but if I gamble on spending 1400 quid getting these fitted and it doesn't work my wife will probably kill me. She has the opinion that the camper costs a hell of a lot of money for the suspension to be so unrefined, I agree but don't really want to get rid of it. Anyone who has these B14's fitted to a van or a California I would like to know your opinion on how it has changed the ride, better or worse!

Thanks again
David
Why don't you ask a dealer to drive another similar Cali and confirm that you vehicle has got a suspension fault?
I am sure you realize you can't compare a £45K Cali with a £45K merc and expect the ride to be comparable. One is based on a van design and the other is specifically designed with refinement in mind. In particular the Cali is a large box shape structure with far fewer soft materials. Noises created by potholes etc are going to sound different. All the camping equipment (fridge, cooker, cupboards, awning, elevating roof) are going to rattle a bit. I think if you accept you haven't bought an executive saloon but a campervan you may then be happier!

As you can see from my post right above this message I am not new to camper vans, having owned a 1992 T4 for 2 years and toured around the UK without any complaints. My point is, in 20 years how come VW have managed to make the ride so crap? Maybe it is the Autosleeper was all soft furnishings, curtains and carpet everywhere with wooden units. I still can't accept how poor the ride is though, this is a leisure vehicle meant for enjoying things off the beaten track not cruising on the motorway all day and stopping in service areas overnight. I drive a lot of different makes of van from time to time so understand the ride a van gives. It isn't the noises of things in the cupboards/fridge etc it's the ride as a whole, a cats eye feels like its the size of a brick.
I have just been driven to my hotel in France in a brand new caravelle taxi, on the motorway and on some A roads and the ride is the same as my California, crashing over cats eyes and the smallest lump in the road.
 
I would look at some good quality aftermarket coil overs. You will shed far more money selling the van on than getting the suspension set up you want.

Also consider dropping the wheel size and fitting a larger profile tyre. Out of interest, what is the load rating of your current tyre?

I have to say though, I am puzzled as to why you find it so bad. I spent 4 months in a BMW 123d M-Sport.....shocking ride, my van by comparison is a limo......are you sure you haven't got soe sort of suspension problem not diagnosed?
 
It's a van, not a car. Check out the ride in a massive motor home and then your t5 will be fine. You can't live n a merc estate for three weeks in France... If you want a better ride get a car and a caravan....
 
Hi David,

I have to agree wholeheartedly with your concerns re the ride quality. For A-roads and the motorway it's perfect but step off and it becomes a far less pleasant experience.
Judging by some of the not so helpful comments you have received I do wonder when people have spent 40k plus on a van, the rose tinted glasses come out regarding any negative comments!
Either that or they have had no experience of driving a small camper van with a decent suspension setup. Yes it's a van, it will never handle like a car but neither should it handle like a boat!

Clearly like you I'm very disappointed with the back road handling of the Cali on standard set up, loads of wallow and roll but oddly still 'crashy' over bumps so I am biding my time before deciding which way to go. Thankfully it hasn't tarnished my view of the van, I have just adapted my driving to plod along the lanes really slowly (which isn't a bad thing), mainly to avoid my daughter getting too green around the gills! We've had some fantastic trips this year and having made this purchase as a long termer I take the view that it's something I need to address, albeit annoying having to fork out money at this price level!

Firstly, I know many people 'rate' the VW lowering route but it's my opinion that isn't really fixing the problem, it's just masking the symptoms. I think the poor shocks are most of the problem along with a too softly sprung rear end. Yes lowering it with a stiffer spring set will help the roll but will certainly not aid with the 'crash' over bumps. VW should offer a solution to this which does not involve lowering.

Personally I don't think VW quite finished the job.
They took a caravelle, sent it off to Hanover, cut a big hole in it and filled it with lots of lovely but heavy goodies. A quick wizz round the car park, then off to the marketing dept. What they failed to do was to spend any time (money) investigating what the impact of creating such a top heavy van weighing 2.6 tonnes might have on the suspension.  Following a little research at the dealers going through all the spring/shock part numbers applicable to the T5 in all it's various guises highlighted an interesting fact. Given the numerous variants of both the springs and shocks available, the UK Cali comes with the bog standard 'least weight rated' panel van spring & shock combo with the only dealer option to swap to the lowered sportline springs! The more workhorse T30 and T32 panel vans have progressively more 'uprated' suspension but I doubt they spend as much of their time as laden as the Cali!  VW also offer an off road super HD spring/shock option for the Cali, but not over here although anything can be ordered given the part numbers, now that I'd like to try! (I believe our forum member from Chile has this option given the state of roads out there)

Ideally I wouldn't want to lower the van but I'm not wholeheartedly against it to get the desired result. With a bit of trawling on the German Cali/T5 forums, there's plenty of Cali owners over there who agree the ride quality should be better but alas no leading solution. The Bilstein B14s do get positive reviews, as does to a lesser extent, the non coilover B12 kit. (same Eibach springs as VW sportline plus Bilstein uprated shocks).
One thing that gets universal praise and seems a no brainer is to upgrade to the VW uprated antiroll bars to help with the body roll. VW Germany actually offer this on the options list for their Cali's. Why not here?!!! I know you can get the aftermarket H&R ARB kit but the genuine  VW version is cheaper plus you can buy them individually front & rear.
I ordered and fitted this uprated VW rear arb (£102+vat). I didn't do the front as it's a lot more faff to fit and the benefit is minimal compared to the rear upgrade. An easy 20 minute swap over and £120 well spent with a very noticeable improvement re the roll and pitching with no negative impact to the crashing over bumps. By the way, these arbs are fitted as standard to the Edition 25 Caravelle vans so no invalidating warranty issues. (FWIW if anyone wants a howto/part nos I'll do a separate thread)

So my thinking is stiffer rear springs and better damped shocks all round (I think all standard Calis look like they sag at the rear end). There are companies out there such as Pedders that specialise in the 'heavy' T5s such ambulances and camper vans, they even supply Westfalia, odd that!
Http://www.pedders.co.uk/files_vw_transportert5
For a cheaper option, it could be worth trying a set of rear springs from the T32 (cheap as chips on eBay) and then combining with some decent HD dampers all round, either the Bilstein B6s or the Sachs HD. (the later were fantastic for the VW T4, a camper that handles great). Ultimately I'm sure VW has a more suitable set of shocks/springs sitting on their shelves given the multiple options available but who's going to take a punt on those when the dealers can't supply any information re their differences or likely impact.

As to where to spend the cash it's all bit of a gamble as so few people have done stuff to their highly prized Calis.  I don't have the time or wallet to experiment as to what works best (as VW should have done) so I think I'll probably end up going the B14 coilover route. At least you get full adjustability (so can retain a proper ride height) along with the tried and tested Bilstein quality.  Unfortunately that'll cost a cool £1100 at Vanstyle but you do get them fitted for that. Brendan, a forum member on here, had them fitted and has given very positive feedback re ride improvement.

Anyhow, enough waffle.... Stick with it David, try and think of it not as your van's fault, (which is so good at all the other stuff), but just those pesky VW big cheeses counting the euros and not going for a drive!

Cheers, Will.
 
The California is not based on a Caravelle. It's based on a Multivan - these are completely different and designed to be more refined and for more car like use.

My Beach sits on standard 16 inch wheels and standard suspension. I spend a lot of time driving round the back roads of Devon. I think the it handles well all things considering. As for ride, never really thought it was awful.

I've also spent spent some time driving a full California on 17 inch wheels and standard suspension. It was not nearly as nimble as the Beach though more refined. As for the ride it self, again fine, the only thing I found was that weight could really be felt in the van.

interestingly before I drove either of those I tried two pre facelift Caravelles. Both handled very differently despite bing a similar age. One was quite crashy and the other not so.

But i have never find the ride awful or unbearable and as I said, mid Devon roads where I live are unforgiving at times.

James
 
James,

Thanks for the insight into the history of the Cali re it's basis on the multivan.
I am unsure as to why that makes any difference to my opinions re the handling, either way the Cali arrives on our shores with the same shocks & springs as on the most basic transporter panel van.
I'm genuinely pleased you are happy with how your beach rides.
However, David is not which is who I addressed my post to.

Cheers, Will

......Fight fight fight :D
 
We had the VW springs fitted last year and the ride is perfect for us, we have done over 14,000 miles since having them fitted. I think if you are that bothered about the ride go and buy an S Class Mercedes and tow a caravan !!
 
WillSS said:
James,

Thanks for the insight into the history of the Cali re it's basis on the multivan.
I am unsure as to why that makes any difference to my opinions re the handling, either way the Cali arrives on our shores with the same shocks & springs as on the most basic transporter panel van.
I'm genuinely pleased you are happy with how your beach rides.
However, David is not which is who I addressed my post to.

Cheers, Will

......Fight fight fight :D


No fight lol - it is expectation, if someone feels their Cali doesn't ride correctly then for them, it's not right.

The history of the Cali is pretty important because what it is based upon is in theory meant to be very different to your standard panel van. Vw designed Multivans to be different to standard T5's - hence why in Germany they appear on their website under the car section. The Cali is a Multivan Comfortline underneath.

That said I would be interested to know what set up German Calis have for example. As you said, in Germany when you order your T5 you can have a number of different set ups.

in my mind whatever you do to your van - it may be better but it is a van and will drive and handle like one. If you've got experience of other campers and vans then clearly you have experience to know what is right and wrong.


James
 
Hi Will,

I found your thread to be very informative. I have only had my 4 motion Cali for two months, but fully intend to sort out the sagging back end issue by firstly fitting an up-rated antiroll bar, if you have the VW part number for that it would be most appreciated. Secondly I intend to fit the rear uprated spring and shock absorber kit from Pedders, since I intend to tow (1200 cc BMW on a trailor).

I'll post my findings here once I do the work within the next 4 / 6 weeks.

Best regards,

Gordon
 
Hi Gordan,
This is great stuff, I would be very surprised if going down the Pedders route did not radically improve the ride quality, certainly the roll and pitch if not the low speed crashing. I assume you will opt for the beefed up rear dampers as well as the springs given the weight you will be towing? Clearly I'm very interested to hear the results!
Regarding the uprated rear ARB i think this is well worth the money for the improvement to the body roll with no detrimental effects to the ride (will do nothing for the sag, your Pedder's springs will sort that out). The VW part no. Is 7E5511407A (was 7H5511407C) and comes with all the required bushes.
It's held on with 4 bolts (2 of them are torx). Just keep the rear axle level when fitting it, very straightforward though I can't speak for the 4wd. (From memory I'm pretty sure they go straight onto the 4motions as well). Recall fitting it without any jacking up and wheels still on, about 30mins including the first time faff. The diameter of the the arb is upped from 24mm to 28mm and is noticeably heavier. You can get it a little cheaper from TPS if you have one near you else it's your VW dealer at £112.

Attached some old/new comparative pics...

Good luck,
Cheers, Will.

DSC09478.jpg

DSC09480.jpg
 

Attachments

  • DSC09478.jpg
    DSC09478.jpg
    146.9 KB · Views: 20
  • DSC09480.jpg
    DSC09480.jpg
    381.1 KB · Views: 17
That is most appreciated Will.
I will order the HD Antiroll bar today from the Southern Motor Group at Cowford, along with the Storage net that fits in the roof opening above the drivers seat.
The uprated arb will be the first mod, but I'm seriously thinking now about fitting air bags to the back because that will give me infinite adjustment with respect to ride height. I did this mod on a 7 metre long Rapido, and it transformed the ride and handling because it was dreadful as standard.
I think the Pedders route would work OK apart from it might lift the vehicle too much as the increase in lift is about 60mm.
You make a very good point about HD Dampers as well, they will be the last of the 3 mods.
Again I will post my findings - probably in about 2ish weeks for the arb.
Best regards,
Gordon (Flash)
 
Hi All,

Been following this thread but there seems to be no updates since Nov 8th 2013.

Will's posting was very informative and helpful.
Did anyone else proceed with any work / upgrades on your suspensions ?
 
Like dfps, I would like to the know the results of fitting the stiffer rear arb and stiffer rear springs...
I want to improve the handling and comfort if possible without going down the lowering route.
 
Hi All,

Been following this thread but there seems to be no updates since Nov 8th 2013.

Will's posting was very informative and helpful.
Did anyone else proceed with any work / upgrades on your suspensions ?
I have just fitted the VW Sportline springs and it has totally transformed the handling without any reduction in comfort and gives a perfect stance in my opinion the must do modification at a budget cost
 
I agree with you VW KID, had the same fitted to mine 20150826_110912.jpg
 

Similar threads

Jay20cali
Replies
1
Views
1K
Jay20cali
Jay20cali
Richard Hurst
Replies
12
Views
5K
Grigio Van Grigio
Grigio Van Grigio
Back
Top