Camping gas freezing

[Wendy]

Hi All. Back again with another quiry. A couple of weeks ago while camping we thought our gas had ran out, (luckily on last day while packing up to return home). having a coffee later with other campers we mentioned this and a guy told us the gas can freeze and we should get a certain gas that doesn’t. Unfortunately I can’t remember which one he said( calor gas or camping gaz ) later we tried the gas again and it was fine and then lasted another 5 days camping before running out.So does that sound like it was freezing? And can anyone say which gas is best please.really appreciate your help

 

[Amarillo]

It is the boiling point of butane and propane that matters: the freezing points are -140 C and -180 C respectively.

Butane boils at -0.4 C and is not particularly effective below 5 C.

Propane boils at -42 C and will be effective in all but the very coldest conditions.

Campingaz in refillable bottles is butane.


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[westfalia]

I use Butane campingaz 907 bottle never had a problem with it freezing.

 

[mccp]

What @Amarillo said plus:

If you want to switch between butane and propane, you will need a different regulator (the bit that attaches to the bottle) as they need to be set to different pressures.

The easiest solution, if you are using Camping Gaz, is just to keep the gas in a reasonably warm place.

 

[WelshGas]

Hi All. Back again with another quiry. A couple of weeks ago while camping we thought our gas had ran out, (luckily on last day while packing up to return home). having a coffee later with other campers we mentioned this and a guy told us the gas can freeze and we should get a certain gas that doesn’t. Unfortunately I can’t remember which one he said( calor gas or camping gaz ) later we tried the gas again and it was fine and then lasted another 5 days camping before running out.So does that sound like it was freezing? And can anyone say which gas is best please.really appreciate your help

As has been stated above. Camping 907 is only available filled with Butane - that is why it is not sold in Northern European Countries.

Having said that it is rare to have problems with Camping Butane cylinders when camping.
1. Fill Water tank as it acts as an insulator.
2. Have Diesel Parking Heater on continuously varying the temperature as required rather than switching On or Off.
3. Leave L kitchen cupboard door ajar as well as rear wardrobe door to allow heat to circulate around water tank.

 

[Meoncoast]

Our 907 bottle stopped working due to freezing conditions for the 1st time this winter.Been using a Cali since 2012 and this was the first time it had happened. As well as what has already been said I also put in down to the bottle being only about 1/4 full.
Changing to a full bottle we had not further issues through the winter weather but I also put bubble wrap aroud the gas tap at the bottle.

 

[morfar]

WelshGas said
As has been stated above. Camping 907 is only available filled with Butane - that is why it is not sold in Northern European Countries.

I live in Denmark and buy mine CampingGaz 907 filled with Propane

 

[fatbob]

Bubble wrap is not a good idea.
As you use the gas it gets colder due to the gas boiling in the bottle. It needs external heat to produce gas. Best to keep in van and let it warm up from camping heater keep door open.

 

[WelshGas]

WelshGas said
As has been stated above. Camping 907 is only available filled with Butane - that is why it is not sold in Northern European Countries.

I live in Denmark and buy mine CampingGaz 907 filled with Propane

First I’ve heard of that being available. Is that from a Campingaz stockist or 3rd Party refilling 907 canisters?

 

[morfar]

From Kosangas wher you deliver the old one and get a new one.

 

[DaNish]

From Kosangas wher you deliver the old one and get a new one.

Can you then specify that you want propane or is it just standard. And being located in Copenhagen, where do you buy it?

 

[Amarillo]

From Kosangas wher you deliver the old one and get a new one.

Does the same regulator work for Campingaz propane and butane refills?


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[morfar]

Can you then specify that you want propane or is it just standard. And being located in Copenhagen, where do you buy it?

it just standard but if you use other buttels you can ask for propan, normely for other bottels is a mix of butan and prodane

 

[morfar]

Does the same regulator work for Campingaz propane and butane refills?


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Yes the same regulator 30mb in Denmark

 

[BillyCasper]

Yes the same regulator 30mb in Denmark

Isn’t 30 now the EU standard for both C3H8 and C4H10?


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[bvddobb]

From Kosangas wher you deliver the old one and get a new one.

First I’ve heard of that being available. Is that from a Campingaz stockist or 3rd Party refilling 907 canisters?

I can't imagine it will be a regular Campingaz bottle being filled with propane. Would be very unsafe.

At normal temperatures like volumes of propane have a much higher pressure than butane. Campingaz bottles are not built for such pressures. Never use propane in a butane bottle with a butane valve. For propane, one needs proper propane bottles (built for the higher pressures) and propane valves.

Propane bottles with Campingaz 907 dimensions exist, and fit in the Cali's gas compartment. One can use a 33 mb regulator on both butane and propane. For winter camping we use this bottle and valve combination.

We have written about it more often on this forum (e.g. here), the earliest mention I can find of it on this forum is from 2014, under this link.

 

[WelshGas]

From Kosangas wher you deliver the old one and get a new one.

Interesting - can find 907 sized cylinders but not Campingaz 907 branded cylinders. Do you have a link?

 

[Amarillo]

Interesting - can find 907 sized cylinders but not Camping 907 branded cylinders. Do you have a link?

In Italy (Brindisi) I exchanged an empty 907 cylinder for a full 909 cylinder for €35 - cost of gas only. Could it be that you can swap a 907 size butane cylinder for a 907 size propane cylinder in Scandinavia for no extra charge other than the gas?


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[WelshGas]

In Italy (Brindisi) I exchanged an empty 907 cylinder for a full 909 cylinder for €35 - cost of gas only. Could it be that you can swap a 907 size butane cylinder for a 907 size propane cylinder in Scandinavia for no extra charge other than the gas?


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Possibly, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[rditt]

WelshGas said
As has been stated above. Camping 907 is only available filled with Butane - that is why it is not sold in Northern European Countries.

I live in Denmark and buy mine CampingGaz 907 filled with Propane

 

[rditt]

Caution: there is one major problem when you are using propan in campingaz bottles. If you are in warm / hot areas like somwhere in africa the

 

[rditt]

Sorry my PC crashed during writing a answer. So I'll try again:

Attention, if you are in warm / hot countries an original camping gas bottle filled with propane can explode and you or your neighbors are no longer among the living!

Campinggaz bottles are lighter in construction and can not withstand the higher pressure of propane gas. Therefore, a filling with propane gas is strictly prohibited.

At 20 ° C, the pressure of a propane filling is 6.5 times as high as the pressure of a butane filling. As the temperature increases, the ratio continues to deteriorate. Eventually, the point at which the butane gas cylinder (constructed to the lower pressure) will fail will be reached.

Hi this text is translatet by Google, I hope you can understand it...Greetings rd

 

[Bstop]

Camping Gaz 907 cylinder showing butane and propane maximum fill weights. It can safely hold propane. Propane is supplied in disposable canisters of much lighter construction than the. 907 cylinder.

 

[bvddobb]

Camping Gaz 907 cylinder showing butane and propane maximum fill weights. It can safely hold propane.

That is a highly valid addition:

Above we were talking about the same mass of gasses. Off course, if you put significantly less (2.5 kg) propane in a 907 than you would butane (3.0 kg), you will stay within security margins. Provided that you also change the valve for a propane valve!
Btw, personally I would not exceed 2.3 kg of propane, to have the same (approx. 52) Mol of propane as 3.0 kg butane.

A 907 full (3.0 kg) of butane will give you approx. 42 kWh, full (2.3 kg) of propane approx. 32 kWh.

 

[rditt]

Hello, I found the following link:

http://vi.vipr.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBay...omain=ebay.de&descgauge=1&cspheader=1&oneClk= 1 & secureDesc = 0

This gas cylinder is not an original Campinggaz bottle incl. Adapter, which is approved for both butane and propane gas. The following video shows how this type of bottle can be self-filled with propane.

Maybe there are similar hardware in UKn.

Good luck and regards Rolf