Change of battery for GC 600 (LiFeP04)

[Eber123]

Hello,

Sorry to post the 100th thread about the battery change, but I thought I will tell you my journey of the battery change.

Like so many others I learned quickly that the 92Ah AGM battery of the Grand California is not really sufficient. Campers who always stay at the campsite or aires with power there is no problem.

But I've learned that there are circumstances that onboard electricity is needed. For instance parking at places with no infrastructer, some aires are full and places only without power connections are free.

With the AGM battery In general I could say arriving at a site at 4 pm the battery is almost empty next day at 10 am (of course without solar or other means of charging the battery, e.g. in winter).

We tried to overcome this using an EcoFlow Delta 2. In general it works. But in May of this year we got stuck at the Northkapp in a storm for 36 hours. To connect the EcoFlow we had to open a window to get the cable out. Not so good. Also it will add another 12 kg to our load (and we fight with each kilogramm ((like in real life)).

So what was the alternative for us? To get the battery changed from AGM to LiFeP04. It should be save to use and not interfere with the VW warranty (I still have 2.5 years left).

The only solution who ticks all the boxes was the "Autarkiepaket" von Car Electrik, Reinbek (near Hamburg).

I contacted them to establish a communication line and we visited them on this years Caravan Show in Duesseldorf. After we got everything explained we decided to go for one 150Ah LiFeP04 battery and an inverter. The order was placed and within a few weeks I got an appointment for the installation.

The ferries were booked (Dublin - Holyhead and Harwich - Hoek van Holland) and I started my journey on Tuesday 26/09. I arrived in Reinbek on Wednesday 27/09 late afternoon. Thursday 28/09 the work was done. 29/09 I stayed in an aire 70 km away from Hamburg for a days rest. Saturday 30/09 I will start may way back.

Handover of the camper was quick and professional. Installation took a day. Pick-up of the GC took a bit longer because I got information of the setup, of what to do and how to use it. Today at the aire I am not on hook-up to test the installation. As it looks like there will be no problems parked-up from Thursday 6 pm to Saturday 9 am.

My VW dealer knows what I planned to do and is interested to see the installation. I bet he also will check the VW database to see if the changes are ok with Volkswagen.

I believe the setup will suite our needs and increases the value of the Grand California. I am sure my GC600 is the only one in Ireland with the change of the battery with in installation that is save (no problems with the car insurance), and authorised by Volkswagen. The life expectancy is far longer on a LiFeP04 than a AGM battery so I don't believe I have to change the battery before I have to give up the camper because I am to old.

Overall so far. The entire communication and learning process with Car Electric in Reinbek was very good. Installation is high quality and save. Authorised by Volkswagen. Improve our camping options.

Of course there is a downside, it is rather expensiv. I hope it will be an investment for the future.

If you are interested in this change please let me know. I will also update this thread during the next few weeks to see how it will work out.

Electrified Grand California,
Eberhard

 

[EuropeanVanderlust]

Very curious to see how it goes. Also, curious to the cost.

We prefer to stay free- not because of the cost- but prefer the experience of nature Vs. a busy campsite (to each their own). But as you know, the battery is typically down to 20-30% by the morning- so you either need to run the engine or drive on. We currently don't have solar- our new to us van did not come with it- but we are working with Solbian now, and should have the original panel installed for in November. I imagine this will help, but as you point out with storms and other conditions it will not entirely fix our dilemma.

Please keep us posted! And rest up...that was quite a journey!

 

[Jester]

Hello,

Sorry to post the 100th thread about the battery change, but I thought I will tell you my journey of the battery change.

Like so many others I learned quickly that the 92Ah AGM battery of the Grand California is not really sufficient. Campers who always stay at the campsite or aires with power there is no problem.

But I've learned that there are circumstances that onboard electricity is needed. For instance parking at places with no infrastructer, some aires are full and places only without power connections are free.

With the AGM battery In general I could say arriving at a site at 4 pm the battery is almost empty next day at 10 am (of course without solar or other means of charging the battery, e.g. in winter).

We tried to overcome this using an EcoFlow Delta 2. In general it works. But in May of this year we got stuck at the Northkapp in a storm for 36 hours. To connect the EcoFlow we had to open a window to get the cable out. Not so good. Also it will add another 12 kg to our load (and we fight with each kilogramm ((like in real life)).

So what was the alternative for us? To get the battery changed from AGM to LiFeP04. It should be save to use and not interfere with the VW warranty (I still have 2.5 years left).

The only solution who ticks all the boxes was the "Autarkiepaket" von Car Electrik, Reinbek (near Hamburg).

I contacted them to establish a communication line and we visited them on this years Caravan Show in Duesseldorf. After we got everything explained we decided to go for one 150Ah LiFeP04 battery and an inverter. The order was placed and within a few weeks I got an appointment for the installation.

The ferries were booked (Dublin - Holyhead and Harwich - Hoek van Holland) and I started my journey on Tuesday 26/09. I arrived in Reinbek on Wednesday 27/09 late afternoon. Thursday 28/09 the work was done. 29/09 I stayed in an aire 70 km away from Hamburg for a days rest. Saturday 30/09 I will start may way back.

Handover of the camper was quick and professional. Installation took a day. Pick-up of the GC took a bit longer because I got information of the setup, of what to do and how to use it. Today at the aire I am not on hook-up to test the installation. As it looks like there will be no problems parked-up from Thursday 6 pm to Saturday 9 am.

My VW dealer knows what I planned to do and is interested to see the installation. I bet he also will check the VW database to see if the changes are ok with Volkswagen.

I believe the setup will suite our needs and increases the value of the Grand California. I am sure my GC600 is the only one in Ireland with the change of the battery with in installation that is save (no problems with the car insurance), and authorised by Volkswagen. The life expectancy is far longer on a LiFeP04 than a AGM battery so I don't believe I have to change the battery before I have to give up the camper because I am to old.

Overall so far. The entire communication and learning process with Car Electric in Reinbek was very good. Installation is high quality and save. Authorised by Volkswagen. Improve our camping options.

Of course there is a downside, it is rather expensiv. I hope it will be an investment for the future.

If you are interested in this change please let me know. I will also update this thread during the next few weeks to see how it will work out.

Electrified Grand California,
Eberhard

Sounds like a good solution to the problem I also would be interested in the outcome after you have tested it. Are you able to show some photos of the installation? Did they adapt any wiring that could cause an issue with warranty?
Thanks Will

 

[GordonH]

Thanks for sharing. Very interested to know the process and costs and how you find the new setup.

 

[Eber123]

Hello,

The result of my research was that only Car Electric in Reinbek got the OK and support from Volkswagen. As far as I know the only company in Europe. I believe they trained up other companies but I don't know a lot about that.

I watched all videos in Youtube about the upgrade and checked their web page. After we decided we might go for the upgrade I contacted Car Electric by email. Email communication was very good, responsive and informative. Also the visit at the trade fair in Duesseldorf.

By the way, just to be clear I won't get any money or so from Car Electric, I just want to share my experience.

After 24 hours of normal usage (fridge, light, charging phone and tablet, hot water etc.) 40% of electricity is gone. I am parked under a tree, just to ensure that there is no charging from the solar panel. That would have not been possible with the AGM battery. I don't believe I will have problems until tomorrow 9 am when I will leave the Aire here.

The cost of the installation (1x LiFeP04 battery and 1x 1600 watt inverter) was EUR 7.000. In my case there was the cost for the ferry crossings (about EUR 900) and other cost (diesel, cost for aires etc. ) EUR 450.

I took some pictures with the phone and a tourch, I hope they are ok. When I am at home I can try to take better pictures.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[GordonH]

Do you know where that have set the low voltage shutoff at - 20%?

 

[Eber123]

Well, I try to remember. I believe the first warning comes up at 10% and the next at 5%. The system will shut off below 5%.

I believe to have 145 Ah to use.

At the moment I won't save any electricity. The warum water is set on hot (since yesterday). I listing to radio RTE One over the internet on my TV and Firestick. The fridge is on (ok, first step). Of course lights are on and charging mobile and tablet.

Lights are on when needed and watching Disney+ (Ahsoka) and Netflix.

Before I leave tomorrow I will take a picture of the VW Camper Unit. Talking about the VW Camper Unit (because of all the typing I almost burned my chicken for my dinner tonight) the information on the unit is far more accurate as it was before.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[Eber123]

Hello,

Just a short update.

I just arrived in Holyhead. I must say it was a mammoth tour. 2,200 km in 4x days. But I must say the crafter is really good. Driving like a dream.

I took a picture of the VW Camper Unit before I left the Aire yesterday. Just to recap, I arrived at the Aire on Thursday 28/09 at about 6 pm and left on Saturday 30/09 around 9 am. The camper was parked in the shade and no hook up. Usage of electrical equipment as normal. Of course fridge was on, lights, warm water, charging mobile, tablet and speaker, using the TV for watching Youtube, Netflix and Disney+.

So far I would say to get good 2x days usage out of the battery. Would I get 3x days? At the moment I am not sure (all without any input to the battery (solar or hook up).

For us it is ok because normally we won't stay longer than 2x days. During this time I think we would have plenty electricity.

How much the VW solar panel will impact the usage I don't know yet. With the AGM battery, on a good sunny day, it could have a big impact. But it was less to charge. Customers who ordered the Lithium battery at the trade fair got a portal solar panel. I will connect this at home on a sunny day.

That's it for the moment. Just waiting to check-in to get back to Ireland.

Exhausted Camper driver,
Eberhard

 

[SpuffingtonMe]

Good write up, thanks.

I’ve got a 90aH LifePO4 fitted to my Knaus, together with a 2000w inverter, 120w solar panel and B2B charger.

I tend to be able to get 48hrs out of mine over the summer period before needing to drive. But within 20mins or so of driving, I have a full battery.

Did you have a B2B charger fitted too as I think that makes the most difference to being off grid if you tend to be someone who travels around each day?

I have considered going up to 150aH but a combination of selling the van next year and being multi-point users rather than staying put for >2days, means we’ve so far has no issues. Including being quite brutal with the battery making 4 cups of coffee each day with the Nespresso machine!

 

[Eber123]

Hello @SpuffingtonMe,

Yes, Car Electric installed a DC-DC 70 amp charger. I've been told the 150 Ah LifePO4 battery will be full again after driving 2,5 hours, but I haven't tried it yet.

The next few days / weeks I haven't planned any trips. The next trip will be end of October for a few days in Ireland.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[Stuartosmith]

Hello,

The result of my research was that only Car Electric in Reinbek got the OK and support from Volkswagen. As far as I know the only company in Europe. I believe they trained up other companies but I don't know a lot about that.

I watched all videos in Youtube about the upgrade and checked their web page. After we decided we might go for the upgrade I contacted Car Electric by email. Email communication was very good, responsive and informative. Also the visit at the trade fair in Duesseldorf.

By the way, just to be clear I won't get any money or so from Car Electric, I just want to share my experience.

After 24 hours of normal usage (fridge, light, charging phone and tablet, hot water etc.) 40% of electricity is gone. I am parked under a tree, just to ensure that there is no charging from the solar panel. That would have not been possible with the AGM battery. I don't believe I will have problems until tomorrow 9 am when I will leave the Aire here.

The cost of the installation (1x LiFeP04 battery and 1x 1600 watt inverter) was EUR 7.000. In my case there was the cost for the ferry crossings (about EUR 900) and other cost (diesel, cost for aires etc. ) EUR 450.

I took some pictures with the phone and a tourch, I hope they are ok. When I am at home I can try to take better pictures.

Regards,
Eberhard

View attachment 115008

View attachment 115009

View attachment 115010

View attachment 115011

View attachment 115012

View attachment 115013

Hi
I am interested on how they wired this system, and how it operates. Did they provide you with a wiring diagram? If so I would be interested to see it.
Thanks
Stuart

 

[Eber123]

Hello @Stuartosmith,

They didn't provide me with a wiring diagram (I didn't expect it and I didn't ask for it). Listing into between the lines the real "magic" is in the software and the cooperation with Volkswagen.

What I know is the following:

• The AGM battery will be taken out
• A box will be installed at the place where the old AGM battery used to be
• The DC-DC booster is placed in this box
• New cables will be installed from the old leisure battery placed back to the cabinet behind the wet room
• The new lithium battery will be installed (see pictures in posts above)
• The Inverter will be installed on top of this (see pictures in posts above)
• Some fuse (230V) were replaced

During driving the lithium battery will be charged with up to 70A til it is 90% full. After that the button on the dashboard has to be pressed to charge it up to 100% (the same as it was before. Important to get the OK from Volkswagen). On hook-up the inverter will charge the lithium battery with 70A also (instead of the 25A of the original VW charger).

The information on the VW camper unit is more accurate as it was before. I believe they bypass the Customer-Specific Functional Control Unit (KFG).

An important point for Car Electric was that the new lithium battery is not installed in the engine bay because of security in case of a crash. If that is really so important or not I don't know.

Thinking about it, during hook-up the VW charger charged the vehicle battery also (even if it was only a "trickle"). I need to check with Car Electric if this is still the case.

The recommendation from Car Electric was to switch off the red button in the cabinet if the camper wasn't used for 7 days or longer.

Since I am back I used the camper, but not for overnight. But with a wee bit of driving and only a wee bit of solar power the battery is always between 90% and 100%.

Regards,
Eberhard

 

[gleneagles]

Sounds like a good solution to the problem I also would be interested in the outcome after you have tested it. Are you able to show some photos of the installation? Did they adapt any wiring that could cause an issue with warranty?
Thanks Will

Can anyone tell me how quickly a leisure battery should discharge when the vehicle is not in use and sitting idle on the drive. ( Grand California 600 2022) ?

 

[GordonH]

Can anyone tell me how quickly a leisure battery should discharge when the vehicle is not in use and sitting idle on the drive. ( Grand California 600 2022) ?

Draw of about 4.5Ah per day so from full to 20% in about 16 days without solar. Solar keeps it topped up most of the year other than the darkest days in December & January.

 

[DLCALI23]

I’ve put a clamp meter across my CG to check this for you, the draw is 0.6 amps with everything turned off, there is always a background draw to power control panel etc.. 4.5 amps is way to much, something is on that shouldn’t be.
Have any extras been added by you or anyone previously? If so, start there, it may be a voltage dropper for light for example, if there is an alarm installed has it been wired to the LB?
Wi-fi router or other added devices can take an amp or two, do you know what you have installed?

 

[GordonH]

I’ve put a clamp meter across my CG to check this for you, the draw is 0.6 amps with everything turned off, there is always a background draw to power control panel etc.. 4.5 amps is way to much, something is on that shouldn’t be.
Have any extras been added by you or anyone previously? If so, start there, it may be a voltage dropper for light for example, if there is an alarm installed has it been wired to the LB?
Wi-fi router or other added devices can take an amp or two, do you know what you have installed?

4.5Ah per day = 4.5 ampere hours per 24 hours = 0.187A average draw. Data comes from the Votronic solar controller (I have the Bluetooth monitor) which shows a need for 4.5Ah per day solar charge to keep the battery topped up. Also confirmed by a recently fitted Victron shunt.

 

[gleneagles]

Draw of about 4.5Ah per day so from full to 20% in about 16 days without solar. Solar keeps it topped up most of the year other than the darkest days in December & January.

Hello, I have solar fitted to my GC and the only thing that I have fitted is a light to illuminate the area behind the panel which separates the luggage area from the living area. My vehicle was for sale for quite a long time at the dealer before I bought it and I wonder if the battery was affected by a long period of no use.

 

[GordonH]

It’s worth having the battery checked to ensure it is OK. If it’s been over discharged it may be EOL. What issues are you seeing ? If you have solar can you see the battery charging (as +ve amps on the panel)

 

[Gloriousadventurers]

Hello,

Sorry to post the 100th thread about the battery change, but I thought I will tell you my journey of the battery change.

Like so many others I learned quickly that the 92Ah AGM battery of the Grand California is not really sufficient. Campers who always stay at the campsite or aires with power there is no problem.

But I've learned that there are circumstances that onboard electricity is needed. For instance parking at places with no infrastructer, some aires are full and places only without power connections are free.

With the AGM battery In general I could say arriving at a site at 4 pm the battery is almost empty next day at 10 am (of course without solar or other means of charging the battery, e.g. in winter).

We tried to overcome this using an EcoFlow Delta 2. In general it works. But in May of this year we got stuck at the Northkapp in a storm for 36 hours. To connect the EcoFlow we had to open a window to get the cable out. Not so good. Also it will add another 12 kg to our load (and we fight with each kilogramm ((like in real life)).

So what was the alternative for us? To get the battery changed from AGM to LiFeP04. It should be save to use and not interfere with the VW warranty (I still have 2.5 years left).

The only solution who ticks all the boxes was the "Autarkiepaket" von Car Electrik, Reinbek (near Hamburg).

I contacted them to establish a communication line and we visited them on this years Caravan Show in Duesseldorf. After we got everything explained we decided to go for one 150Ah LiFeP04 battery and an inverter. The order was placed and within a few weeks I got an appointment for the installation.

The ferries were booked (Dublin - Holyhead and Harwich - Hoek van Holland) and I started my journey on Tuesday 26/09. I arrived in Reinbek on Wednesday 27/09 late afternoon. Thursday 28/09 the work was done. 29/09 I stayed in an aire 70 km away from Hamburg for a days rest. Saturday 30/09 I will start may way back.

Handover of the camper was quick and professional. Installation took a day. Pick-up of the GC took a bit longer because I got information of the setup, of what to do and how to use it. Today at the aire I am not on hook-up to test the installation. As it looks like there will be no problems parked-up from Thursday 6 pm to Saturday 9 am.

My VW dealer knows what I planned to do and is interested to see the installation. I bet he also will check the VW database to see if the changes are ok with Volkswagen.

I believe the setup will suite our needs and increases the value of the Grand California. I am sure my GC600 is the only one in Ireland with the change of the battery with in installation that is save (no problems with the car insurance), and authorised by Volkswagen. The life expectancy is far longer on a LiFeP04 than a AGM battery so I don't believe I have to change the battery before I have to give up the camper because I am to old.

Overall so far. The entire communication and learning process with Car Electric in Reinbek was very good. Installation is high quality and save. Authorised by Volkswagen. Improve our camping options.

Of course there is a downside, it is rather expensiv. I hope it will be an investment for the future.

If you are interested in this change please let me know. I will also update this thread during the next few weeks to see how it will work out.

Electrified Grand California,
Eberhard

What a great amount of research and energy you have put into finding a solution. Well done. I also have a GC 600, live in Dublin and would love to connect in person if possible to look at your solution and discuss similar issue. I can be reached at 0870572333. Really appreciated and thank you. Dominic