Disability hoist drains leisure batteries

[ClaudeVanJan]

A better pic of the -ve terminal

 

[yossarian]

A better pic of the -ve terminal

View attachment 97164

Does the red wire go to the top of the cube fuse? If so it is measuring the voltage of the wrong battery...

 

[yossarian]

A better pic of the -ve terminal

View attachment 97164

If you unplug then replug the two pin connector does the hours left on your control panel jump to 60 ish?

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Does the red wire go to the top of the cube fuse? If so it is measuring the voltage of the wrong battery...

yes the thick red wire is connected onto of the cube fuse.....the other red is connected to the silver connector

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

If you unplug then replug the two pin connector does the hours left on your control panel jump to 60 ish?

is the 2 pin connector the black thing coming off the white block with VW AG 2N09 etc on it...if so what bit pulls apart

 

[yossarian]

is the 2 pin connector the black thing coming off the white block with VW AG 2N09 etc on it...if so what bit pulls apart

Yes that's it. It has a press to release catch in the center of the plug as I recall.

 

[yossarian]

yes the thick red wire is connected onto of the cube fuse.....the other red is connected to the silver connector

You should get this moved to where the hoist is connected.

 

[yossarian]

Moving that red wire will probably get your battery sensing working correctly. You would then get complaints on your control panel if the cube fuse blew.

The VW diagram shows the sensor connected to the wrong battery but every photo I have seen (and my own van) has had the sensor connected to it's own battery as it should be.

I'm not sure which is the "silver connector"?

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Moving that red wire will probably get your battery sensing working correctly. You would then get complaints on your control panel if the cube fuse blew.

The VW diagram shows the sensor connected to the wrong battery but every photo I have seen (and my own van) has had the sensor connected to it's own battery as it should be.

I'm not sure which is the "silver connector"?

sorry about my terminology...my reference to silver connector should be re written as the battery clamp...

Do you have any pics of what my display should look like if all working as it should ??

 

[yossarian]

Here's a pic of my aft battery. Notice how the sensor E gets its power and voltage sense from position B via the connector F. Yours looks like it is connected to C, which will feed the fwd battery's voltage to the sensor if the fuse blows.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Yes that's it. It has a press to release catch in the center of the plug as I recall.

I couldn't manage to pull this apart so I'll leave that till tomorrow when I take the van into the guy who did the cabinet conversion....so fingers crossed and all that...thanks for all of you time on this

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Here's a pic of my aft battery. Notice how the sensor E gets it power and voltage sense from position B via the connector F. Yours looks like it is connected to C, which will feed the fwd battery's voltage to the sensor if the fuse blows.

View attachment 97166

Brilliant ...thanks so much for this...I'll take it with me tomorrow...cheers

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Brilliant ...thanks so much for this...I'll take it with me tomorrow...cheers

one last thing...is your connection at C above or below the cube fuse ??

 

[yossarian]

C is above the cube fuse and where I suggest your hoist should be powered. Your hoist would then have power potentially from the front battery, the alternator and the AC charger unit. And the aft battery if the fuse is intact.

 

[yossarian]

Do you have any pics of what my display should look like if all working as it should ??

The only thing that looks abnormal is the 0h bit on your display. The metric is definitely not particularly useful but 0h with 80% charge suggests that some weird numbers are being used to make that calculation.

 

[yossarian]

Please insist that your battery is charged using a good quality charger before the fuse is replaced. This process should not take less than 12 hours.

Connecting an unregulated power source to the battery will certainly destroy it and potentially damage whatever is providing the power.

 

[OGII]

A quick note to say how pleasing it is to see the collective power of this forum and the generosity of time and knowledge that members put in to help out with a genuine and pressing issue stopping someone getting the best out of their Cali.

Well done guys.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Here's a pic of my aft battery. Notice how the sensor E gets its power and voltage sense from position B via the connector F. Yours looks like it is connected to C, which will feed the fwd battery's voltage to the sensor if the fuse blows.

View attachment 97166

Morning all....another day of detective work beckons !!
just checked to see where my sensor F cable is connected to and it looks like it runs from F and then is tucked within the factory fitted black sheathing tape that covers the cable running to the C connection....ie it doesn't appear to be connected at all to the rear battery.
I'm taking it in to the conversion guy who will check it out and I'll get some better pics then.

 

[yossarian]

Morning all....another day of detective work beckons !!
just checked to see where my sensor F cable is connected to and it looks like it runs from F and then is tucked within the factory fitted black sheathing tape that covers the cable running to the C connection....ie it doesn't appear to be connected at all to the rear battery.
I'm taking it in to the conversion guy who will check it out and I'll get some better pics then.

Good luck. What you observe matches the VW diagram (attached). My guess is that this is how VW did things originally and that your installer is not at fault. You hoist installer has also not fallen for the trap of using the battery negative, so nothing I've seen here can be faulted except for perhaps the questionable choice of powering the hoist after the cube fuse.

On the diagram you can see the green markings I made indicating what I've observed on later model year Californias. Personally I'd modify my van to match the green markings. But an alternative is to put a bluetooth battery monitor (or similar, a mppt will do the same thing) on the second battery.

 

[WelshGas]

One way of continually checking the Cube Fuse if you have a Solar panel connected to the rear Leisure battery is to connect the Red Solar lead BELOW the Cube fuse.
The Solar MPPT will give the battery voltage which should be replicated on the Control Panel, unless the Cube Fuse fails in which case the MPPT and Control Panel voltages would be different, but the rear Leisure battery wouldn't be drained as it would still be charged by Solar panel.

 

[2into1]

Cant understand why VW told me both batteries were done and needed to be replaced...

It's a rude awakening to new owners as to how hopeless vw are at anything rear of the engine. I'd insist on your ridiculous diagnosis charge being returned in full.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Good luck. What you observe matches the VW diagram (attached). My guess is that this is how VW did things originally and that your installer is not at fault. You hoist installer has also not fallen for the trap of using the battery negative, so nothing I've seen here can be faulted except for perhaps the questionable choice of powering the hoist after the cube fuse.

On the diagram you can see the green markings I made indicating what I've observed on later model year Californias. Personally I'd modify my van to match this. But an alternative is to put a bluetooth battery monitor (or similar, a mppt will do the same thing) on the second battery.

View attachment 97183

Thanks for this...just back from having van inspected by hoist conversion guy...the plot thickens !!
Cube fuse was blown.....dont know what would have caused that
Test on leads show that no power is being distributed to the rear battery when ignition on and running
Front display shows a fully charged system...
Front battery appears fully charged at 12.5v
So. for some reason the van is not seeing the rear battery and I think it confirms either that the split charger has an issue or the recent software update has been incorrectly carried out.

Off to VW van centre now for a 'little chat' !!

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

One way of continually checking the Cube Fuse if you have a Solar panel connected to the rear Leisure battery is to connect the Red Solar lead BELOW the Cube fuse.
The Solar MPPT will give the battery voltage which should be replicated on the Control Panel, unless the Cube Fuse fails in which case the MPPT and Control Panel voltages would be different, but the rear Leisure battery wouldn't be drained as it would still be charged by Solar panel.

thanks...Solar has been something I've been meaning to look at to try to understand the benefits.
Once I've got this sorted its probably an avenue I'll go down.

 

[ClaudeVanJan]

Update from todays little investigations....VW dealer now seems to agree that something is amiss between the front LB and the rear LB....more important is that they are now open to the theory that the recent software update has coded the van as a 1 battery van....hence the front panel showing up as fully charged.
Booked in for Tuesday for a 'full diagnostic ' check so fingers crossed
Thanks to everyone who have helped me get to this point....
Will update you all Tuesday

 

[yossarian]

the theory that the recent software update has coded the van as a 1 battery van....hence the front panel showing up as fully charged.

As the originator of this theory I must just say that I think it has been discredited by your measurements and observations. Here's where I think you are at:

Problem	Likely cause	Solution(s)
Aft battery flat (initially)	Blown cube fuse	Charge battery using a good current and voltage limiting charger, then replace the cube fuse. See @WelshGas' post for details.
Control panel fails to indicate blown cube fuse.	Miswiring of the IBS sensor	Rewire IBS sensor as indicated. Install battery monitor.
Hoist does not work with cube fuse blown.	Hoist attached to battery behind cube fuse.	Move hoist wire to point C on the photograph.
Aft battery still does not work after cube fuse replacement	Failure to charge aft battery before replacing cube fuse will cause cube fuse to blow repeatedly. Battery at 5V differential will draw around it's CCA rating. Around 800A.	Perform procedure as indicated. Charging battery to 80% at C/10 will take at least 12 hours.