Electric California ( on the way )

[DoctorBob]

Yes I think the next hot topic for Extinction Rebellion will be the environmental damage caused by battery production. IMHO We’ll undoubtedly see developments in the coming years relegating today’s battery powered vehicles to the same fate as ICE powered vehicles. Take a look at the following, a battery that does not need recharging :-

The California-based startup NDB has unveiled a battery that uses nuclear waste and lasts up to 28,000 years.
The power of the nano-diamond battery comes from radioactive isotopes used in nuclear reactors.
Its radioactive core is protected by multiple layers of synthetic diamonds, one of the hardest materials to damage or break.
The energy is absorbed in the diamond through inelastic scattering, which is used to generate electricity.
The battery can be used to power devices and machines of any size, from aircraft and rockets to electric vehicles and smartphones.

Extinction rebellion don’t want electric cars - they want to take us back to a subsistence/medieval society that has no bearing on the advances of the last 200 years

 

[Wildcamper]

UK electricity consumption peaked in 2005 at 357.2 terrawatt hours: in 2019 consumption was 301.76 terrawatt hours, and that is with about 280,000 registered electric vehicles in 2019 and close to zero in 2005.

Additionally, electric vehicles commonly draw electricity at night, a time of low demand. The infrastructure can probably cope with the increasing demand from electric vehicles.

Have you taken into account the amount of electricity that we import from France every year? Let's hope the French infrastructure can cope!

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Weird isn’t it, people talk about going greener and then buy electric bikes rather than sticking with the muscle powered option.

 

[Borris]

Maybe. But whichever way you look at it. Electric vehicles are the future. And maybe we will all need to adjust a little to the new norm. But I think we are all used to changing our ways after the last six months.

I'm not so sure they are the future. Fast forward thirty years and what will we find on our roads? I suspect the cutting edge of automotive tech will be vehicles that generate their own power and not ones that are totally reliant on the national grid. EVs are seen as the current solution but they are not without their problems.
We shall have to wait and see or rather you will as I will probably be long gone.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Weird isn’t it, people talk about going greener and then buy electric bikes rather than sticking with the muscle powered option.

Im an avid cyclist. Happy road cycling for miles averaging anywhere between 20-25mph, so no slow coach here.

But I adore e-bikes and what they bring to our transportation needs.
They open up cycling to those in the past who have struggled and create a viable alternative to the car. I myself have reduced my car dependancy massively my using an e-bike.
Being able to get round to the shops 3/4/5times faster than walking, the school run, the commute to work or meeting friends for a drink in the evening.
All scenarios where i don't want to don lycra and arrive sweating...

Without question e-bikes are more environmentally friendly than using the California or equivalent electric vehicle not forgetting taking up less space on the road and reducing congestion.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Im an avid cyclist. Happy road cycling for miles averaging anywhere between 20-25mph, so no slow coach here.

But I adore e-bikes and what they bring to our transportation needs.
They open up cycling to those in the past who have struggled and create a viable alternative to the car. I myself have reduced my car dependancy massively my using an e-bike.
Being able to get round to the shops 3/4/5times faster than walking, the school run, the commute to work or meeting friends for a drink in the evening.
All scenarios where i don't want to don lycra and arrive sweating...

Without question e-bikes are more environmentally friendly than using the California or equivalent electric vehicle not forgetting taking up less space on the road and reducing congestion.

yes, my post was tongue in cheek.
We already have bikes but are looking a couple of e- bikes to our collection.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

yes, my post was tongue in cheek.
We already have bikes but are looking a couple of e- bikes to our collection.

to add a couple of e- bikes to our collection.

 

[rich-s]

What happens when the battery is exhausted what's the life span?

The batteries have a lifetime far beyond the cars use of them. The batteries in my Audi are guaranteed to still hold at least 80% of their new capacity at 8 years old. My understanding is that even when they are not sufficient for the current use, that they will be recycled as batteries still. The anticipated plans for these cells is to recycle them into banks similar to the Tesla Powerwall.

 

[soulstyledevon]

to add a couple of e- bikes to our collection.

You won’t regret it. They’re brilliant.
We have two in our house now and I’m awaiting a third...

 

[DoctorBob]

The batteries have a lifetime far beyond the cars use of them. The batteries in my Audi are guaranteed to still hold at least 80% of their new capacity at 8 years old. My understanding is that even when they are not sufficient for the current use, that they will be recycled as batteries still. The anticipated plans for these cells is to recycle them into banks similar to the Tesla Powerwall.

its akin to perpetual motion! personally I am cautious about some of these claims for battery longevity and recycling opportunities; cosmically we need to be careful about silver bullet solutions - battery electric will have a place in the transport mix for a while but won’t be the panacea

 

[Sunstoner]

Maybe. But whichever way you look at it. Electric vehicles are the future. And maybe we will all need to adjust a little to the new norm. But I think we are all used to changing our ways after the last six months.

Electric vehicles may well be the future in leu of a better solution but i reckon we'll see many improvements between now and when the planet finally accepts 'leccy vehicles as the new norm. Charge times, range, charging stations. Couple that with self driving vehicles and wireless charging and perhaps we'll end up owning fewer cars.

 

[Wildcamper]

Electric vehicles may well be the future in leu of a better solution but i reckon we'll see many improvements between now and when the planet finally accepts 'leccy vehicles as the new norm. Charge times, range, charging stations. Couple that with self driving vehicles and wireless charging and perhaps we'll end up owning fewer cars.

The issue of where the materials will come from, on a sustainable basis, needed for e vehicles is still an unknown. The Cobalt, Neodymium, Lithium all present severe environmental problems and they are not going away. These added to the damage already caused by mining iron, aluminium etc. Then, as in an earlier post, where is the electricity (or hydrogen) going to come from. Electric vehicles are great to drive but at the present they are not sustainable - in my view. The science is a long way behind the hype.

 

[willwander]

The issue of where the materials will come from, on a sustainable basis, needed for e vehicles is still an unknown. The Cobalt, Neodymium, Lithium all present severe environmental problems and they are not going away. These added to the damage already caused by mining iron, aluminium etc. Then, as in an earlier post, where is the electricity (or hydrogen) going to come from. Electric vehicles are great to drive but at the present they are not sustainable - in my view. The science is a long way behind the hype.

It’s not as though oil doesn’t have it’s own environmental problems, not least of which, global warming.
Oh and the odd war of course.

 

[zippster]

Chris did say right at the end of the video that they will start with the caravelle, but with a current 82mile range I cant see many sales unless you tow a battery pack. T7 end of next year .. so I think were ok for a while.

 

[Sunstoner]

The issue of where the materials will come from, on a sustainable basis, needed for e vehicles is still an unknown. The Cobalt, Neodymium, Lithium all present severe environmental problems and they are not going away. These added to the damage already caused by mining iron, aluminium etc. Then, as in an earlier post, where is the electricity (or hydrogen) going to come from. Electric vehicles are great to drive but at the present they are not sustainable - in my view. The science is a long way behind the hype.

I know this is a wee bit far fetched and would mean for massive changes but instead of allowing technology to (supposedly) advance how we travel by car / vehicle (i,e by ripping up the planet) should we not perhaps be looking at how technology can advance a more locally based civilisation?

Is the need for travel bar for leisure activities and holidaying really necessary for the average person?. OK, maybe right now, yes but I mean in 25 years?

 

[Sunstoner]

The issue of where the materials will come from, on a sustainable basis, needed for e vehicles is still an unknown. The Cobalt, Neodymium, Lithium all present severe environmental problems and they are not going away. These added to the damage already caused by mining iron, aluminium etc. Then, as in an earlier post, where is the electricity (or hydrogen) going to come from. Electric vehicles are great to drive but at the present they are not sustainable - in my view. The science is a long way behind the hype.

I entirely agree with your concerns. I dont see how its viable. Even if the earth was 5 times the size and thus 5 times the resources. Its needs leaving alone. This place needs leaving intact for the generations and generations to come. However, it does awfully feel like the race to get off this rock has begun as the realisation that its too late is sinking in for those in the know.

 

[Wildcamper]

It’s not as though oil doesn’t have it’s own environmental problems, not least of which, global warming.
Oh and the odd war of course.

Every single aspect of human activity causes an environmental problem. Oil = CO2 + extraction damage; materials for e vehicles = extensive environmental damage + elimination of local wild life, materials for existing vehicles = environmental damage, food production = environmental damage. There is no "free" lunch. Somehow human consumption in all its forms needs to be reduced substantially. Nature can deal with CO2 given a chance but that chance will not come if humans continue to cut trees and clear forests, in conjunction with reduced consumption. Reducing the global population by about 2 billion would work!

 

[Sunstoner]

Every single aspect of human activity causes an environmental problem. Oil = CO2 + extraction damage; materials for e vehicles = extensive environmental damage + elimination of local wild life, materials for existing vehicles = environmental damage, food production = environmental damage. There is no "free" lunch. Somehow human consumption in all its forms needs to be reduced substantially. Nature can deal with CO2 given a chance but that chance will not come if humans continue to cut trees and clear forests, in conjunction with reduced consumption. Reducing the global population by about 2 billion would work!

We gotta accept that we're like a plague! All those billions of planets dont stand a chance once we're advanced enough to leave earth under our own steam.

 

[WelshGas]

Every single aspect of human activity causes an environmental problem. Oil = CO2 + extraction damage; materials for e vehicles = extensive environmental damage + elimination of local wild life, materials for existing vehicles = environmental damage, food production = environmental damage. There is no "free" lunch. Somehow human consumption in all its forms needs to be reduced substantially. Nature can deal with CO2 given a chance but that chance will not come if humans continue to cut trees and clear forests, in conjunction with reduced consumption. Reducing the global population by about 2 billion would work!

That's the Elephant in the Room, that no one talks about.

 

[Bellcrew]

That's the Elephant in the Room, that no one talks about.

They talk about it all the time, of course the reduction in population is dependant on billions of people accepting their premature deaths, volunteers will be short supply.

 

[Nolan]

EVs are most probably the future but in this sized vehicle that future might be a little way off and I'm not sure I want to pay a premium for one of the first ones. A range under 100 miles is unlikely to satisfy many van owners (private or commercial).

Be good when it does happen though.

 

[Jenny H]

Plug-in hybrids are a 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

Although marketed as a green option, the cars cause more polluting than is claimed, campaigners say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting article !

 

[Amarillo]

An EV would work well for us as our second car for short trips, but we occasionally cover 1000 miles in a single day in Amarillo. Twelve full electric recharges in one day! No way!!!

 

[Wildcamper]

For a fictional look into the future read "Second Sleep" by Robert Harris. Set 600 years in the future, the world has experienced a catastrophe, population of the UK is 10 million, no cars, no planes, no internet, no electricity the only travel is by horse. The church controlls all aspects of life and death. There are tails of the past where people communicated instantly, were able to travel vast distances in a few hours. The church holds these secrets but no one must find out. Plastic is mined in old dumps. One person is determined to find the truth and find out what the rectangular plastic shapes are that have a sign on the back of an apple with a bite taken out. She is successful but ......? While it is only a story I found it made me think very hard about what is happening on the planet and "could this happen"? Yes it could.

I think this aspect of this thread is getting off topic. No I won't be purchasing an electric vehicle of any sort, a wolf in sheep's clothing. As much as I like driving them.

 

[DoctorBob]

Plug-in hybrids are a 'wolf in sheep's clothing'

Although marketed as a green option, the cars cause more polluting than is claimed, campaigners say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting article !

Dodgy science -as is usual from pressure groups apposed to consumer goods and personal transport. E.g. PHEV data is from 2+ years ago. And 60% + of all journeys are under 40 miles - PHEVs would save millions of tonnes in co2 pa on the commute alone I would wager