Electric California ( on the way )

[GrumpyGranddad]

For a fictional look into the future read "Second Sleep" by Robert Harris. Set 600 years in the future, the world has experienced a catastrophe, population of the UK is 10 million, no cars, no planes, no internet, no electricity the only travel is by horse. The church controlls all aspects of life and death. There are tails of the past where people communicated instantly, were able to travel vast distances in a few hours. The church holds these secrets but no one must find out. Plastic is mined in old dumps. One person is determined to find the truth and find out what the rectangular plastic shapes are that have a sign on the back of an apple with a bite taken out. She is successful but ......? While it is only a story I found it made me think very hard about what is happening on the planet and "could this happen"? Yes it could.

I think this aspect of this thread is getting off topic. No I won't be purchasing an electric vehicle of any sort, a wolf in sheep's clothing. As much as I like driving them.

Yes, read that book a while back. Enjoyable.

 

[WelshGas]

It would seem the Energy Companies are getting concerned.

Energy firms planning to use smart meters to switch off your central heating
Sam Meadows

SMART meters could allow energy networks to switch off central heating systems, under proposals being considered by the watchdog.
The plans, tabled by Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, would allow distributors to ask the permission of consumers to turn off appliances with high usage, including heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers over fears that mass uptake of these green technologies could overload the energy network.
It would be voluntary and appliances would be switched off for two hours a day maximum, ending after 12 months if a permanent solution had not been found.
SSEN stressed the measures would only be used in emergencies, with customer consent and would only apply to heating systems with a heat pump and not those powered by gas.
A spokesman said: “The proposed modification has been tabled to provide a last-resort contingency measure, protecting the security of customer supplies during an emergency scenario.”
But Peter Earl, an energy expert at switching site Compare the Market, said: “I would have considerable concern about the impact of these measures. I would particularly be concerned about the more vulnerable households.”
He added: “We know there are potential issues coming with meeting peak demand, but the industry has to find solutions to these problems and not expect consumers and households to help.”
An Ofgem spokesman said no decision was expected before next spring and consumer protection would be considered. He said: “We would expect further clarity, including the definition of an emergency situation and how consumer interests would be protected, before this modification is submitted to us for decision

 

[Bellcrew]

It would seem the Energy Companies are getting concerned.

Energy firms planning to use smart meters to switch off your central heating
Sam Meadows

SMART meters could allow energy networks to switch off central heating systems, under proposals being considered by the watchdog.
The plans, tabled by Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, would allow distributors to ask the permission of consumers to turn off appliances with high usage, including heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers over fears that mass uptake of these green technologies could overload the energy network.
It would be voluntary and appliances would be switched off for two hours a day maximum, ending after 12 months if a permanent solution had not been found.
SSEN stressed the measures would only be used in emergencies, with customer consent and would only apply to heating systems with a heat pump and not those powered by gas.
A spokesman said: “The proposed modification has been tabled to provide a last-resort contingency measure, protecting the security of customer supplies during an emergency scenario.”
But Peter Earl, an energy expert at switching site Compare the Market, said: “I would have considerable concern about the impact of these measures. I would particularly be concerned about the more vulnerable households.”
He added: “We know there are potential issues coming with meeting peak demand, but the industry has to find solutions to these problems and not expect consumers and households to help.”
An Ofgem spokesman said no decision was expected before next spring and consumer protection would be considered. He said: “We would expect further clarity, including the definition of an emergency situation and how consumer interests would be protected, before this modification is submitted to us for decision

We lived in New Zealand in the 70's, the electricity company had a signal it sent down the cable that could turn off the hot water emersion heater when the peak was approached, routine and you never knew when it happened, probably.

 

[soulstyledevon]

Reducing the global population by about 2 billion would work!

I read something recently that said we are near to Population Peaks.

Especially in Europe and well developed countries, less babies are being born and more women are putting off having children, instead chasing careers and travelling more etc etc.

There was a rough rule 50 years ago, that for every woman on average would have 5.2 children, but that currently stands at less than 2.1 for large parts of Europe and surprisingly China which is the threshold replacement level.

In-fact one expert was quoting a population imbalance within the next 50 years which raises many problems an aging population creates.

If the calculations and trends continue, the world population will peak at 9.7billion mid century and drop to less than 8billion before the century finishes.

 

[Wildcamper]

It would seem the Energy Companies are getting concerned.

Energy firms planning to use smart meters to switch off your central heating
Sam Meadows

SMART meters could allow energy networks to switch off central heating systems, under proposals being considered by the watchdog.
The plans, tabled by Scottish and Southern Electricity Networks, would allow distributors to ask the permission of consumers to turn off appliances with high usage, including heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers over fears that mass uptake of these green technologies could overload the energy network.
It would be voluntary and appliances would be switched off for two hours a day maximum, ending after 12 months if a permanent solution had not been found.
SSEN stressed the measures would only be used in emergencies, with customer consent and would only apply to heating systems with a heat pump and not those powered by gas.
A spokesman said: “The proposed modification has been tabled to provide a last-resort contingency measure, protecting the security of customer supplies during an emergency scenario.”
But Peter Earl, an energy expert at switching site Compare the Market, said: “I would have considerable concern about the impact of these measures. I would particularly be concerned about the more vulnerable households.”
He added: “We know there are potential issues coming with meeting peak demand, but the industry has to find solutions to these problems and not expect consumers and households to help.”
An Ofgem spokesman said no decision was expected before next spring and consumer protection would be considered. He said: “We would expect further clarity, including the definition of an emergency situation and how consumer interests would be protected, before this modification is submitted to us for decision

Am I allowed to say "about time too"! In 1995 at an electric and fuel cell automotive symposium I asked where all the electricity and hydrogen was going to come from. I was glared at by the symposium panel and told not to be concerned as it was in hand. I repeated this question at meetings in the UK, EU and USA up until I retired in 2016 - still no answer then! May be the sheep's clothing is starting to fall off the wolf.

 

[Wildcamper]

I read something recently that said we are near to Population Peaks.

Especially in Europe and well developed countries, less babies are being born and more women are putting off having children, instead chasing careers and travelling more etc etc.

There was a rough rule 50 years ago, that for every woman on average would have 5.2 children, but that currently stands at less than 2.1 for large parts of Europe and surprisingly China which is the threshold replacement level.

In-fact one expert was quoting a population imbalance within the next 50 years which raises many problems an aging population creates.

If the calculations and trends continue, the world population will peak at 9.7billion mid century and drop to less than 8billion before the century finishes.

Do we have that long?

 

[Karlos]

An EV would work well for us as our second car for short trips, but we occasionally cover 1000 miles in a single day in Amarillo. Twelve full electric recharges in one day! No way!!!

Agreed we often do big mileage in Europe driving 12-14 hours, I would need an EV that could do that. I can clock up 350miles a day at work.

 

[Kirx]

Of course, there’s a much simpler solution; eco friendly, quiet, renewable, self-sufficient and will solve the growing obesity problem too!

 

[Alan Greensall]

Has left me a little conflicted
Great to see all electric van out there but not so good for us diesel owners .
The future is coming ...

with a range of 70miles this is never going to replace deisel engine campers They need to catch up with Tesla. I think 300miles is the minimum thats needed.

 

[stephen watson]

I'm a little confused by Chris's video. I've owned an eGolf for a couple of years, which I absolutely love. Like every electric vehicle I know it is single speed and does not have a normal gearbox. Chris specifically says the Transporter has a DSG gearbox. Is he correct? I find it hard to believe it has more than 1 forward gear.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I'm a little confused by Chris's video. I've owned an eGolf for a couple of years, which I absolutely love. Like every electric vehicle I know it is single speed and does not have a normal gearbox. Chris specifically says the Transporter has a DSG gearbox. Is he correct? I find it hard to believe it has more than 1 forward gear.

I wondered about that too?

 

[Christine Kirk]

As last week we did at least 600miles and that included two 250 mile runs done in under 4and a half hours the electric van would just have been a non starter. I also note that at the two service stations we stopped at < Teddington and Leicster forest > there's a distinct lack of charging stations and do the charger's deliver at 15amps or 50amps? It will make a huge difference to the length of time it takes to charge the battery pack. It was an interesting read in last months "TOP GEAR" magazine as they drove across Europe in an electric only car and it was a slow trip punctuated by anxiety of battery power and charge times. What about the damage to the earth in extracting rare earth metals like LITHIUM and what's the system of recycling these poisonous metal products when the batteries are exhausted, or are they going to be pushed into landfill?
Hydrogen cell the way to go maybe?

 

[Wildcamper]

As last week we did at least 600miles and that included two 250 mile runs done in under 4and a half hours the electric van would just have been a non starter. I also note that at the two service stations we stopped at < Teddington and Leicster forest > there's a distinct lack of charging stations and do the charger's deliver at 15amps or 50amps? It will make a huge difference to the length of time it takes to charge the battery pack. It was an interesting read in last months "TOP GEAR" magazine as they drove across Europe in an electric only car and it was a slow trip punctuated by anxiety of battery power and charge times. What about the damage to the earth in extracting rare earth metals like LITHIUM and what's the system of recycling these poisonous metal products when the batteries are exhausted, or are they going to be pushed into landfill?
Hydrogen cell the way to go maybe?

You are 100% correct regarding the current issues surrounding electric cars and van - range, charging times and charging stations. With huge investment the latter two can probably be dealt with. Increasing range will depend on major advances in battery technology that dramatically change the technological landscape. This has yet to even begin to materialise. However, as I have mentioned, all of this will only make sense if the question of "where is the electricity going to come from" is answered. The calculation of the amount of electricity required for a nationwide fleet of electric vehicles is very simple, it takes few lines of basic mathematics. You are also correct in asking about recycling of lithium. You need to go further and look into the mining of the other necessary metals for efficient electric vehicles - cobalt from a conflict area of Africa using exploited child and female labour. Then neodymium from China and the horrendous environmental damage that causes. Hydrogen is an excellent choice but the basic question remains, where will it come from? Energy is required to produce electricity, so we need a high density energy source. Oil is one of these but has CO2 and other issues. Wind and solar are very low density energy sources. Nuclear is a high density source but has a bad press, unfairly in my view. If one believes in an electric future the only option is nuclear - fusion rather than fission. No, it is not without its problems. Which ever way one looks there is no "free lunch". If electric transport is the future - it should be - then governments better start building nuclear power generating capacity ASAP - preferably starting Monday.

 

[Legin]

Range of the e transporter is up to 82 miles. What use is that ? Real world cold will be 60 miles. I think the diesel cali is here for a good while yet. commercial.autoexpress.co.uk .. m_content=espnnetwork-cricinfo

 

[vananarama]

The range of 60miles works for me. (but only in lockdown)

Ha.


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[Stan van den Berg]

"Electric vehicles are the future". Depends. If all the cars in the UK were to go electric that would require 10 - 15 nuclear power stations of the Hinckley Point size. If from wind power one would have to close pack Cornwall, Devon, Somerset, Dorset and a chunk of Hampshire with wind turbines. This is a very simple calculation. I brought this question/calculation up at a recent meeting on the viability of electric cars - the organisers asked me to leave! Then there is the requirements for Neodymium - required for high efficiency electric motors. Look at the mining catastrophe of obtaining this material in China! The vast majority of neodymium comes from China. If the UK went electric the world requirement for Neodymium would increase by a factor of 10 - just the UK. Neodymium is a "rare earth metal" - note rare. Not as rare as some metals but a lot rarer than iron, aluminium, etc. and they make a mess of the environment. One part of the extraction process involves an acid extraction. The acid lake on one of the Chinese mines is several square miles in area. This kills all the wild life for miles around. Search neodymium mining. Then there is the requirement for chromium. Another unpleasant extraction often involving underage children in Africa. Electric cars are great to drive, make 100% sense in cities, elsewhere the jury is out.

I think you are a bit pessimistic. As a first estimate we probably have to double the existing electricity production to satisfy the demand for a complete switch over to electric driving in the next 10 years or so. This can be done by doubling the number of wind mills and solar panels. And we have time for that.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

I think you are a bit pessimistic. As a first estimate we probably have to double the existing electricity production to satisfy the demand for a complete switch over to electric driving in the next 10 years or so. This can be done by doubling the number of wind mills and solar panels. And we have time for that.

Add a bit more for the explosion in electric bicycle and electric scooter sales

 

[WelshGas]

Add a bit more for the explosion in electric bicycle and electric scooter sales

Don’t forget they are planning on swapping gas powered central heating and hot water systems to electric versions.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

Don’t forget they are planning on swapping gas powered central heating and hot water systems to electric versions.

True.
You might even need to change your tag to WelshElectricity soon

 

[WelshGas]

True.
You might even need to change your tag to WelshElectricity soon

No, they won’t be getting rid of the “Gas” I was using.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

No, they won’t be getting rid of the “Gas” I was using.

Anaesthetic ??

 

[WelshGas]

Anaesthetic ??

 

[Erbster]

I think you are a bit pessimistic. As a first estimate we probably have to double the existing electricity production to satisfy the demand for a complete switch over to electric driving in the next 10 years or so. This can be done by doubling the number of wind mills and solar panels. And we have time for that.

I don’t think that’s right. The paradox of renewables is that they can’t replace nuclear/gas - the more we have wind/solar the more we need the others, for example what about in winter when a high pressure system means little/no wind, but overcast skies and short days means little solar either. It’s a complex problem and though we don’t need to solve it overnight, the current energy market makes it very hard to trade off between demand, environmental concerns and the profits of the energy companies (eg nuclear is very stable and predictable with low greenhouse emissions but is very unpopular and unprofitable). Nuclear fusion has been a decade away for about 50 years, but with significant investment (and dare I say it, international cooperation) would fill the gap if only the engineering challenges could be solved.


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[Amarillo]

I don’t think that’s right. The paradox of renewables is that they can’t replace nuclear/gas - the more we have wind/solar the more we need the others, for example what about in winter when a high pressure system means little/no wind, but overcast skies and short days means little solar either. It’s a complex problem and though we don’t need to solve it overnight, the current energy market makes it very hard to trade off between demand, environmental concerns and the profits of the energy companies (eg nuclear is very stable and predictable with low greenhouse emissions but is very unpopular and unprofitable). Nuclear fusion has been a decade away for about 50 years, but with significant investment (and dare I say it, international cooperation) would fill the gap if only the engineering challenges could be solved.


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Tidal power is reliable, and tidal generation can be stepped up or down within any 12 hour tidal cycle dependent on solar and wind generation.

 

[WelshGas]

Tidal power is reliable, and tidal generation can be stepped up or down within any 12 hour tidal cycle dependent on solar and wind generation.

If that's the case why haven't the Seven Barrage and the Swansea Bay Barrage schemes never progressed beyond the initial design stage?