Electric California ( on the way )

[Amarillo]

If that's the case why haven't the Seven Barrage and the Swansea Bay Barrage schemes never progressed beyond the initial design stage?

Capital costs. Gas is so much cheaper.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

If that's the case why haven't the Seven Barrage and the Swansea Bay Barrage schemes never progressed beyond the initial design stage?

Power stations create more jobs and boost the economy.

Hinkley C:
"Spending with South West businesses reached £980m by the end of January and has now topped £1bn. A further £500m is ready to be spent in new contracts which have already been signed.
- 6,500 people have worked on the construction site so far
- 1,700 of the current workforce live in Somerset, of which 300 are under 35 years old
- 8,500 people have been trained and assessed at the specially built Construction Skills and Innovation Centre near the site
- 380 apprentices have already been taken on by the project
-Offsite jobs, around 800 people are working in Bristol on the project and thousands more are supplying Hinkley Point C from over 1,100 companies in every part of the UK. For example, around 1,000 workers come from Wales and more than 60 Welsh companies supply the project, including over 200,000 tonnes of steel that will be used on site."

Planned Sizewell C - "predominantly British supply chain, retain valuable skills and expertise, Unite said that the construction of the new nuclear power station could generate up to 25,000 jobs during construction and 1,000 apprenticeships. An estimated 2,500 businesses in the supply chain would also benefit. It would provide 900 operational jobs during the 60 years it is expected to be in service. "


Tidal Barrage are subject to Environmental concerns (Wikipedia),

..
The placement of a barrage into an estuary has a considerable effect on the water inside the basin and on the ecosystem. Many governments have been reluctant in recent times to grant approval for tidal barrages. Through research conducted on tidal plants, it has been found that tidal barrages constructed at the mouths of estuaries pose similar environmental threats as large dams. The construction of large tidal plants alters the flow of saltwater in and out of estuaries, which changes the hydrology and salinity and could possibly harm marine mammals that use the estuaries as their habitat. The La Rance plant, off the Brittany coast of northern France, was the first and largest tidal barrage plant in the world. It is also the only site where a full-scale evaluation of the ecological impact of a tidal power system, operating for 20 years, has been made.

French researchers found that the isolation of the estuary during the construction phases of the tidal barrage was detrimental to flora and fauna, however; after ten years, there has been a "variable degree of biological adjustment to the new environmental conditions"

Some species lost their habitat due to La Rance's construction, but other species colonized the abandoned space, which caused a shift in diversity. Also as a result of the construction, sandbanks disappeared, the beach of St. Servan was badly damaged and high-speed currents have developed near sluices, which are water channels controlled by gates.
..

But should recover over time:

..
The barrage has caused progressive silting of the Rance ecosystem. Sand-eels and plaice have disappeared, though sea bass and cuttlefish have returned to the river. By definition, tides still flow in the estuary and the operators, EDF endeavors to adjust their level to minimize the biological impact.

The Rance Basin has undergone a full scale evaluation of the ecological impact of the tidal power station during 20 years of operation. Significant impact during the 3-year construction phases and closing of the estuary provoked disappearance of marine flora & fauna due to salinity fluctuations, heavy sedimentation and accumulation of organic matter in the basin. The new ecological equilibrium, established in the space of 10 years remains fragile and being linked to the degree of stability of abiotic conditions, dependent to a large extent on the operation conditions of the power stations. By 1976, the Rance estuary was considered again as richly diversified: a new biological equilibrium was reached and aquatic life was flourishing again.
..

Guess it all comes down to money in the end!

 

[WelshGas]

More problems.

Electric car boom fuels global scramble for nickel and cobalt
A surge in demand for crucial metals could lead to sourcing problems for the growing electric car industry

ByOlivia Rudgard, US TECHNOLOGY REPORTER, SAN FRANCISCO21 September 2020 • 1:01pm

The sun sets on one of the open pit copper and cobalt mines at Mutanda Mine in Kolwezi, DRC. Glencore suspended operations there last year because of difficulties sourcing the sulphric acid needed to extract the metals. CREDIT: Per-Anders Pettersson
Tesla’s quarterly earnings calls are rarely dull. The most recent one was no exception.
In July, chief executive Elon Musk made a direct plea to the mining industry for an element he said he was desperate to get his hands on.
“Tesla will give you a giant contract for a long period of time if you mine nickel efficiently and in an environmentally-sensitive way. So hopefully, this message goes out to all mining companies. Please get nickel,” he said.
The company is due to unveil new battery technology at its highly-anticipated "battery day" on Tuesday. Whatever technology it will announce, it is certain to still need nickel and lithium - two elements that aren't always easy to get.
Their growing scarcity is a problem that is weighing heavy on not just Musk, but the entire electric car industry. Demand for nickel is expected to increase six-fold by 2030, and supply isn't keeping up.
“All of us in the industry have known that there is an abyss coming,” says Martin Vydra, president and director of Giga Metals, which is aiming to become a major supplier of cobalt and nickel through a proposed mining project Turnagain, in British Columbia, Canada.
From the Arctic wastes of northern Siberia to the tropical islands of Australasia, nickel deposits can be found around the globe - but mining them in sufficient quantity and without damaging the environment represents a big challenge.
Of the 2.1m metric tons of refined nickel that is produced annually, only 400,000 tons is in a form that can easily be converted into nickel sulphate, the form required for electric car batteries.
Demand is exploding, with electric car sales taking off in Europe and nickel consumption by the battery market predicted to hit half a million tons by the late 2020s.
Nickel mining projects have shifted to become more focused on nickel laterites, largely based in Indonesia, which are easier to find than the historically more frequently mined form of nickel sulphide, but these require a lot more work and money to refine.
Nickel also comes from projects in Madagascar and the Philippines, but there is growing unease about the reliability of these supply chains, especially since refining capacity is dominated by China.
At the moment the battery market is dwarfed by other uses for the metal, such as the production of stainless steel, so is having a limited impact on prices and demand.
But the urgent need to build longer range and smaller, lighter batteries is pushing manufacturers towards formulas with a greater nickel density. Automakers like Musk fear a looming crunch in availability - especially if they want to limit their carbon footprint and source ethically.
Caspar Rawles, of London-based Benchmark Mineral Intelligence, says that the volatile prices of elements like lithium, nickel and cobalt are a key issue for legacy automakers wanting to conquer the electric car market.
“The price risk really sits with them, and also because of the dealership structure they can’t change their prices very quickly if the price of lithium goes up, and they can't hedge their price because there's no hedging mechanism for lithium or cobalt.
“For nickel there is a hedging mechanism, so it’s slightly less of a concern, but in that case it’s just [that] access to the material in, let’s say, five years’ time is potentially going to be an issue.”
A flurry of recent nickel projects in Canada and European countries including Finland and Norway are promising, but not enough to head off an expected price crunch within the next decade.
Musk has expressed a desire to phase out cobalt from Tesla’s batteries, citing its high cost and ethical concerns over the Democratic Republic of the Congo’s artisanal mines, but in June signed a long-term deal with Glencoreto source the metal - a concession to the practical realities of current battery technology.
Almost three-quarters of the world’s cobalt comes from the DRC, and the rest is scattered from sources around the world.
This means it is vulnerable to local political and logistical issues. Earlier this summer prices spiked because of Covid-19 lockdowns at South Africa’s sea ports, which are the main export points for shipments of cobalt hydroxide from the DRC and Zambia.
Phasing out cobalt is a safety issue, because reducing its levels makes a battery more likely to spontaneously burst into flames, and also reduces a battery’s life cycle capacity.
A shift to solid-state batteries makes the elimination of cobalt more likely, because of the lower risk of overheating. “In 10 years, is there possibility cobalt could be eliminated from lithium-ion batteries? I would say that might be a possibility,” says Vydra.
But major battery manufacturers, including LG Chem and SK Innovation, have repeatedly promised that new low-cobalt formulations would soon be commercially viable, and repeatedly missed their own targets.
Cobalt-focused projects are still going ahead, including a Bill Gates-backed initiative by startup KoBold Metals to scour a 1,000-kilometre area in Canada for the element.
“These technology changes which are quite commonly talked about by battery companies and people in the supply chain as relatively easy to do, they're really not, they're very challenging,” says Rawles.

Robin Goad, president and chief executive of Fortune Minerals, a Canadian mining company looking to establish a project in Canada’s Northwest Territories, said he was “quite confident” in predicting a shortage of cobalt within the next five years.
“Having a North American supply, where we have the rule of law, where we have very stringent environmental regulations as well as social licences to operate, and having transparency from the mining activity right through to the production of the cobalt chemicals is very desirable,” he said.
For all three elements a major problem is a lack of investment in getting them out of the ground. Investors are likely to be scared off by disasters including the bankruptcy of Nemaska Lithium last year, having spent CA$411.4m (£235.2m) failing to launch a mine in Quebec.
Low prices also make things tough. Buzz around battery and TV demand pushed cobalt prices up in 2016 and 2017 but they fell in 2018 and have remained low since. Lithium prices have also fallen because of a glut of supply and China’s cut in subsidies for electric car companies.
“It's hard for these companies to attract capital, even though they could have very viable projects. When the prices are low investment money goes elsewhere,” says Rawles.
This raises the prospect of demand spiking and the supply failing to materialise. Mining is a slow-moving industry. A mine which moves from discovery to development in seven years is considered a speedy project.
Musk's promise in July to provide nickel-mining companies "giant contracts" may go someway to reassure the industry of future profits. But in such a slow-moving sector, it's unlikely to stave off a shortage.

 

[Wildcamper]

More problems.

Electric car boom fuels global scramble for nickel and cobalt
A surge in demand for crucial metals could lead to sourcing problems for the growing electric car industry

ByOlivia Rudgard, US TECHNOLOGY REPORTER, SAN FRANCISCO21 September 2020 • 1:01pm

The sun sets on one of the open pit copper and cobalt mines at Mutanda Mine in Kolwezi, DRC. Glencore suspended operations there last year because of difficulties sourcing the sulphric acid needed to extract the metals. CREDIT: Per-Anders Pettersson
Tesla’s quarterly earnings calls are rarely dull. The most recent one was no exception.
In July, chief executive Elon Musk made a direct plea to the mining industry for an element he said he was desperate to get his hands on.
“Tesla will give you a giant contract for a long period of time if you mine nickel efficiently and in an environmentally-sensitive way. So hopefully, this message goes out to all mining companies. Please get nickel,” he said.
The company is due to unveil new battery technology at its highly-anticipated "battery day" on Tuesday. Whatever technology it will announce, it is certain to still need nickel and lithium - two elements that aren't always easy to get.
Their growing scarcity is a problem that is weighing heavy on not just Musk, but the entire electric car industry. Demand for nickel is expected to increase six-fold by 2030, and supply isn't keeping up.
“All of us in the industry have known that there is an abyss coming,” says Martin Vydra, president and director of Giga Metals, which is aiming to become a major supplier of cobalt and nickel through a proposed mining project Turnagain, in British Columbia, Canada.
From the Arctic wastes of northern Siberia to the tropical islands of Australasia, nickel deposits can be found around the globe - but mining them in sufficient quantity and without damaging the environment represents a big challenge.
Of the 2.1m metric tons of refined nickel that is produced annually, only 400,000 tons is in a form that can easily be converted into nickel sulphate, the form required for electric car batteries.
Demand is exploding, with electric car sales taking off in Europe and nickel consumption by the battery market predicted to hit half a million tons by the late 2020s.
Nickel mining projects have shifted to become more focused on nickel laterites, largely based in Indonesia, which are easier to find than the historically more frequently mined form of nickel sulphide, but these require a lot more work and money to refine.
Nickel also comes from projects in Madagascar and the Philippines, but there is growing unease about the reliability of these supply chains, especially since refining capacity is dominated by China.
At the moment the battery market is dwarfed by other uses for the metal, such as the production of stainless steel, so is having a limited impact on prices and demand.
But the urgent need to build longer range and smaller, lighter batteries is pushing manufacturers towards formulas with a greater nickel density. Automakers like Musk fear a looming crunch in availability - especially if they want to limit their carbon footprint and source ethically.
Caspar Rawles, of London-based Benchmark Mineral Intelligence, says that the volatile prices of elements like lithium, nickel and cobalt are a key issue for legacy automakers wanting to conquer the electric car market.
“The price risk really sits with them, and also because of the dealership structure they can’t change their prices very quickly if the price of lithium goes up, and they can't hedge their price because there's no hedging mechanism for lithium or cobalt.
“For nickel there is a hedging mechanism, so it’s slightly less of a concern, but in that case it’s just [that] access to the material in, let’s say, five years’ time is potentially going to be an issue.”
A flurry of recent nickel projects in Canada and European countries including Finland and Norway are promising, but not enough to head off an expected price crunch within the next decade.
Musk has expressed a desire to phase out cobalt from Tesla’s batteries, citing its high cost and ethical concerns over the Democratic Republic of the Congo’s artisanal mines, but in June signed a long-term deal with Glencoreto source the metal - a concession to the practical realities of current battery technology.
Almost three-quarters of the world’s cobalt comes from the DRC, and the rest is scattered from sources around the world.
This means it is vulnerable to local political and logistical issues. Earlier this summer prices spiked because of Covid-19 lockdowns at South Africa’s sea ports, which are the main export points for shipments of cobalt hydroxide from the DRC and Zambia.
Phasing out cobalt is a safety issue, because reducing its levels makes a battery more likely to spontaneously burst into flames, and also reduces a battery’s life cycle capacity.
A shift to solid-state batteries makes the elimination of cobalt more likely, because of the lower risk of overheating. “In 10 years, is there possibility cobalt could be eliminated from lithium-ion batteries? I would say that might be a possibility,” says Vydra.
But major battery manufacturers, including LG Chem and SK Innovation, have repeatedly promised that new low-cobalt formulations would soon be commercially viable, and repeatedly missed their own targets.
Cobalt-focused projects are still going ahead, including a Bill Gates-backed initiative by startup KoBold Metals to scour a 1,000-kilometre area in Canada for the element.
“These technology changes which are quite commonly talked about by battery companies and people in the supply chain as relatively easy to do, they're really not, they're very challenging,” says Rawles.

Robin Goad, president and chief executive of Fortune Minerals, a Canadian mining company looking to establish a project in Canada’s Northwest Territories, said he was “quite confident” in predicting a shortage of cobalt within the next five years.
“Having a North American supply, where we have the rule of law, where we have very stringent environmental regulations as well as social licences to operate, and having transparency from the mining activity right through to the production of the cobalt chemicals is very desirable,” he said.
For all three elements a major problem is a lack of investment in getting them out of the ground. Investors are likely to be scared off by disasters including the bankruptcy of Nemaska Lithium last year, having spent CA$411.4m (£235.2m) failing to launch a mine in Quebec.
Low prices also make things tough. Buzz around battery and TV demand pushed cobalt prices up in 2016 and 2017 but they fell in 2018 and have remained low since. Lithium prices have also fallen because of a glut of supply and China’s cut in subsidies for electric car companies.
“It's hard for these companies to attract capital, even though they could have very viable projects. When the prices are low investment money goes elsewhere,” says Rawles.
This raises the prospect of demand spiking and the supply failing to materialise. Mining is a slow-moving industry. A mine which moves from discovery to development in seven years is considered a speedy project.
Musk's promise in July to provide nickel-mining companies "giant contracts" may go someway to reassure the industry of future profits. But in such a slow-moving sector, it's unlikely to stave off a shortage.

This comes as no surprise - unfortunately.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

" if you mine nickel efficiently and in an environmentally-sensitive way "

nice idea, but impossible....

 

[willwander]

" if you mine nickel efficiently and in an environmentally-sensitive way "

nice idea, but impossible....

Let's continue to burn oil then

 

[Wildcamper]

I think you are a bit pessimistic. As a first estimate we probably have to double the existing electricity production to satisfy the demand for a complete switch over to electric driving in the next 10 years or so. This can be done by doubling the number of wind mills and solar panels. And we have time for that.

The whole problem is going to be very difficult to fix. Doubling the wind and solar infrastructure will barely scratch the surface of what is required - wish I was wrong. Have you considered how much land will be required for that level of increased wind/solar infrastructure? A 2MW wind turbine needs about 2 acres of land area. Also bear in mind that with wind/solar because of their intermittent nature to get 2MW output one needs to install 6MW! Offshore is possible but very expensive especially with all that salt water about. Easy this is not going to be.

 

[willwander]

The whole problem is going to be very difficult to fix. Doubling the wind and solar infrastructure will barely scratch the surface of what is required - wish I was wrong. Have you considered how much land will be required for that level of increased wind/solar infrastructure? A 2MW wind turbine needs about 2 acres of land area. Also bear in mind that with wind/solar because of their intermittent nature to get 2MW output one needs to install 6MW! Offshore is possible but very expensive especially with all that salt water about. Easy this is not going to be.

“We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard...”

If you are drowning you cannot tread water forever, eventually you have to try to swim towards a shore.

...and other cliches

I have an optimistic outlook, we might not be able to do the final, perfect solution, but that should not stop us from trying

Progress is incremental. Moving just 10% of cars to an ever so slightly better solution would be fantastic, if we can do more even better

 

[Wildcamper]

“We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard...”

If you are drowning you cannot tread water forever, eventually you have to try to swim towards a shore.

...and other cliches

I have an optimistic outlook, we might not be able to do the final, perfect solution, but that should not stop us from trying

Progress is incremental. Moving just 10% of cars to an ever so slightly better solution would be fantastic, if we can do more even better

You are absolutely right, just don't underestimate the challenge and the knock on effects, +ve and -ve as both will be present.

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

You are absolutely right, just don't underestimate the challenge and the knock on effects, +ve and -ve as both will be present.

Something I thought I’d throw into the mix

 

[Wildcamper]

Something I thought I’d throw into the mix View attachment 66648

Yep, another of the knock on aspects of wind energy. As the blades are glass fibre composites they are a pain to recycle. I was involved in a project looking into recycling aerospace composites and specifically looking at the Boeing 787 and Airbus 350, both composite aircraft. A major aircraft dismantled said after some thought, " all we can do is dig an f***ing big hole and bury the f***ing things. Aluminium is easy to recycle.

 

[willwander]

It’s the much anticipated Tesla “battery day” tomorrow.
Will they Manufacture their own batteries? double the range? Half the cost? Ditch cobalt? Deliver the infamous ‘million mile’ battery?

Musk has promised ‘many exciting things’ lol

 

[clarinetbcn]

There is so much discussion about how much more energy will be needed for electric cars, and almost no discussion of what is currently the largest source of available energy: conservation. Every time I walk past one of those huge department stores, with their “air curtains” blasting down hot air in winter and cold air in summer in front of wide open street entrances with no doors, or look at glass high rises with no openable windows or sun shades, or look down on a whole city with roofs with no vegetation (Toronto has now passed a law that every new roof must have vegetation to absorb thermal variation, starting next year every new home in California must include both passive conservation and active technology to be net zero in energy consumption), I wonder how we became so entitled to brazenly waste energy needlessly and then complain when our “right” to waste is in any way limited.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

“We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard...”

If you are drowning you cannot tread water forever, eventually you have to try to swim towards a shore.

...and other cliches

I have an optimistic outlook, we might not be able to do the final, perfect solution, but that should not stop us from trying

Progress is incremental. Moving just 10% of cars to an ever so slightly better solution would be fantastic, if we can do more even better

Its simple, just drive less. You will cut emissions overnight.

 

[Erbster]

There is so much discussion about how much more energy will be needed for electric cars, and almost no discussion of what is currently the largest source of available energy: conservation. Every time I walk past one of those huge department stores, with their “air curtains” blasting down hot air in winter and cold air in summer in front of wide open street entrances with no doors, or look at glass high rises with no openable windows or sun shades, or look down on a whole city with roofs with no vegetation (Toronto has now passed a law that every new roof must have vegetation to absorb thermal variation, starting next year every new home in California must include both passive conservation and active technology to be net zero in energy consumption), I wonder how we became so entitled to brazenly waste energy needlessly and then complain when our “right” to waste is in any way limited.

Here here!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Erbster]

Its simple, just drive less. You will cut emissions overnight.

Hmm, makes me feel a bit guilty as a Cali owner (covered over 3k miles this summer)...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[orbital]

It’s surprisingly easy to slash carbon emissions whilst running a Cali.
1) Become vegan (or vegetarian). That will cut emissions by about 20 percent.
2) walk or cycle to work (if within, say, 10-15 miles). Another big cut in emissions.
3) Buy ‘green’ electricity and biogas.
4) Eat organic.
5) Put a jumper on in winter rather than turn up the thermostat.
6) Buy a lot less ‘stuff’, get it secondhand if you can be bothered, and fix it when it breaks.

That will virtually eliminate emissions, you’ll have to work a lot less hard to buy stuff, and you’ll have money left over to drive your Cali as much as you like. I’m not sure my suggestions will go down so well with most people but it depends on where your conscience lies. My Cali is called Greta, btw. I’m not sure ms Thunberg will be amused though!

 

[willwander]

It’s surprisingly easy to slash carbon emissions whilst running a Cali.
1) Become vegan (or vegetarian). That will cut emissions by about 20 percent.
2) walk or cycle to work (if within, say, 10-15 miles). Another big cut in emissions.
3) Buy ‘green’ electricity and biogas.
4) Eat organic.
5) Put a jumper on in winter rather than turn up the thermostat.
6) Buy a lot less ‘stuff’, get it secondhand if you can be bothered, and fix it when it breaks.

That will virtually eliminate emissions, you’ll have to work a lot less hard to buy stuff, and you’ll have money left over to drive your Cali as much as you like. I’m not sure my suggestions will go down so well with most people but it depends on where your conscience lies. My Cali is called Greta, btw. I’m not sure ms Thunberg will be amused though!

1) Done
2) Done
3) Done
4) nope
5) Done
6) Done, just bought a car for £600
...
7) Don’t have children, done

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

It’s surprisingly easy to slash carbon emissions whilst running a Cali.
1) Become vegan (or vegetarian). That will cut emissions by about 20 percent.
2) walk or cycle to work (if within, say, 10-15 miles). Another big cut in emissions.
3) Buy ‘green’ electricity and biogas.
4) Eat organic.
5) Put a jumper on in winter rather than turn up the thermostat.
6) Buy a lot less ‘stuff’, get it secondhand if you can be bothered, and fix it when it breaks.

That will virtually eliminate emissions, you’ll have to work a lot less hard to buy stuff, and you’ll have money left over to drive your Cali as much as you like. I’m not sure my suggestions will go down so well with most people but it depends on where your conscience lies. My Cali is called Greta, btw. I’m not sure ms Thunberg will be amused though!

7) get off our smartphones.
The internet has a HUGE carbon footprint.

 

[Ting Tong]

Watch Long Way Up on Apple TV (free 12m subscription if you’ve recently bought an iPhone) if you think electric is viable for anything but local trips.

They’re trying to ride 2 electric Harleys from Cape Horn to LA with a range of 80 miles and a 6 hour charge time with a high current supply. They’ve had to install high current chargers en route (12000 miles) but the cold temperatures and reliance on 13a supplies in many places is reducing overnight charges to 40 miles. Hence they also got a sprinter Support van with a huge Solar panel on the roof and a flat bed with massive 10kva generator.

I think they’re sitting around wishing they’d taken the R1200GS or KTM petrol options. Impressive prototype Rivian pickups tho which can also be towed to charge.

 

[Wildcamper]

Watch Long Way Up on Apple TV (free 12m subscription if you’ve recently bought an iPhone) if you think electric is viable for anything but local trips.

They’re trying to ride 2 electric Harleys from Cape Horn to LA with a range of 80 miles and a 6 hour charge time with a high current supply. They’ve had to install high current chargers en route (12000 miles) but the cold temperatures and reliance on 13a supplies in many places is reducing overnight charges to 40 miles. Hence they also got a sprinter Support van with a huge Solar panel on the roof and a flat bed with massive 10kva generator.

I think they’re sitting around wishing they’d taken the R1200GS or KTM petrol options. Impressive prototype Rivian pickups tho which can also be towed to charge.

So they drove 2 motorbikes 12,000 miles with a portable power station in tow! Why? Puzzled!

 

[GrumpyGranddad]

So they drove 2 motorbikes 12,000 miles with a portable power station in tow! Why? Puzzled!

Because they were being paid a big chunk of dosh . Perhaps we should pitch a long journey in a fleet of electric Californias to Apple TV. I quite fancy London to Beijing. .

 

[Nolan]

Range seems almost entirely useless for anything other than taking the kids to school.

How can the prestige German marques be so far behind Tesla? None of them see to understand what the customer wants (or they do but are unable to produce it). Even the ID3 is starting to look like a missed opportunity.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

Range seems almost entirely useless for anything other than taking the kids to school.

How can the prestige German marques be so far behind Tesla? None of them see to understand what the customer wants (or they do but are unable to produce it). Even the ID3 is starting to look like a missed opportunity.

Electric car development is an expensive business, hence Dyson pulled out early on (after poaching R&D staff & setting up a dedicated team they employed them for a few months, they then closed the dept). VW / Ford have been sharing battery technology for some time now to share the cost.

Its far easier for Car manufacturers to keep churning out the same vehicle and just changing the look slightly. Even better if you can use the same base, engine, interior trim across different brands (VW, Skoda, Seat) to keep costs down. Changes to engines are usually forced upon them due to new emissions rules, or, they will remap a engine to give it more oomph and charge you a a few thousand pounds extra for it.

 

[willwander]

Because they were being paid a big chunk of dosh . Perhaps we should pitch a long journey in a fleet of electric Californias to Apple TV. I quite fancy London to Beijing. .

I’m in