Diesel and electric charge points? The battle

[DaveyEbb]

I can give my perspective as owner of both a Cali (for 3 years) and a Jaguar i-Pace fully electric vehicle (coming up to one year).

The i-Pace has a range of 200 miles so is perfectly suitable for most journeys, both locally in the North West of England where we live, and occasional trips to London. The London trips do require a couple of 40 min charges needing some planning since the charging infrastructure is still a bit flaky - I envy Tesla owners who have superb motorway charging facilities in contrast with the unreliable "Electric Highway" points provided for the rest of the EV world.

In my view it's a question of "horses for courses". It is a pleasure to drive the i-Pace with zero emissions and recharging at home overnight on a contract from Ovo with electricity generated from 100% renewables. However the Cali remain the motor of choice for longer trips, particularly where camping is involved!

In summary, for those fortunate to have 2 vehicles, it really is a no-brainer. An EV for everyday use and a fossil fuelled vehicle for longer trips. Time will tell whether electric vehicles become all pervasive - it certainly appears to be the direction of travel. VW clearly see a market here since they are soon to introduce an electric Cali with 300 mile range.

 

[Sp0_0k]

Working with electrics a lot and being pretty decent at battery technologies I was always very optimistic about EV cars. Considering the EU steps at promoting the electric technology I can clearly say it has no future at least in Europe.
Even getting cells for my projects is the most expensive in EU than in any "dirty" part of the world. People in US already building custom conversions and they are pretty usable not just toying around.
Each EU's initiative is so insanely "not smart", they are killing it instead. They are so fixed on regulations and on not missing an opportunity to charge various extras on anything possible, that even buying electric is simply nonsense today. Building it is even more crazy overpriced hobby.
I was seriously planning to get E-bus in near future but the first smart step I did, took a good notice of charging possibilities around the paces I travel. I was shocked how such a simple technology that requires almost no time, cost and effort to put a basic non-fast-charge hookup is simply not introduced in most EU countries.

Even if we make it to superconductors or carbon batteries, economic recession might kill all the efforts sooner.
The more I dive into EV practical applications in the current environment the more I like combustion engines. Even older dirtier ones.

 

[Sp0_0k]

We will see inductive charging

Which is like 40% efficient and already bashed as dirty option.
With all that fantasy about clean driving, we completely miss the point where electricity comes from. We never bothered to make electricity majorly green which we will always use way more than for driving. Why would we bother now?

 

[Quentin SF]

Ah, well, going back to the original question:

You're all an educated and well read bunch, so what year do you feel that electric charging points will match the number of Diesel/ petrol points and therefore start to outnumber Diesel / petrol pumps?

There are already, actually, more places you can charge your car in the UK than there are places you can fill up with fossil fuels. And that's public charging points; it doesn't take account of all the charging points on people's houses (or indeed, the number of 13A sockets out there).

That should however, be taken with a pinch of salt because the majority of those are slow chargers (7kW or less): very important if you're visiting a restaurant, pub or a National Trust property, but not so good for a quick stop and fill-up.

UK rapid chargers (normally 40kW or more) currently number 2700 in about 1900 locations. (The headline figure is 6700 connectors, but that's like counting each nozzle on each petrol pump; most 'pumps' can only charge one vehicle at once.) And the numbers are going up fast; here are the numbers for the last few years, not including 2019. 2019 follows the same trend - picture the next bar being 6700-high.



So the answer to the original question, I think, is 'Very soon now, if we aren't there already'. The key thing is that it's very easy to add charging points at your hotel, or supermarket, or cafe, and doing so will become ever more valuable in the future. It's very hard, in comparison, to add a petrol pump in your car park

I've been driving an electric car for a little over 4 years now, as my only vehicle until we added a campervan more recently. And mine doesn't have anything like the range of today's cars - more like 70 miles on a good day - but I've still done several long trips, like Cambridge to Grasmere and back, without problems.

But even if you aren't that adventurous, 'elderly' cars like mine are still absolutely brilliant for normal day-to-day driving: popping into town, going to the school or supermarket, commuting to the station.
I agree with @DaveyEbb above. If you're fortunate enough to be able to own two vehicles, it makes perfect sense for one of them to be electric. And that doesn't mean you have to buy a Tesla or an iPace (nice as they are). Good used EVs are under £10k now.

You probably do need something more expensive if it's going to be your only car, though.

 

[CaliAM]

There are now more electric vehicle (EV) charging stations in the UK than conventional fuel stations, according to data published by Nissan.

Difference is, you can fill you car with conventional fuel in 5 minutes.....EV charging takes time....so far more charging points are needed or longer mileage

 

[BrendanJ]

I believe that the end of the combustion engine is in sight, perhaps in my lifetime, yes there are problems yet to be solved but the means and motivation is growing rapidly.
Whilst most ICE manufacturers drag their feet siting cost and investment, Tesla are showing it can be done. They have already addressed the desirability and performance issue, as there volumes increase pirice is reducing and they are streets ahead in the technology.
On top of that the growing environmental lobby will FORCE adoption well before 2050 so just feasibly in my lifetime
I say bring it on,

 

[larrylamb]

There are now more electric vehicle (EV) charging stations in the UK than conventional fuel stations, according to data published by Nissan.

Difference is, you can fill you car with conventional fuel in 5 minutes.....EV charging takes time....so far more charging points are needed or longer mileage

True, but you can charge at home , overnight for example, saving you a trip to the dirty diesel forecourt. Charging points, methods and range will all improve massively with time. We are only scratching the surface, more EV charging stations are needed but only in the relative short term imo.
Ferdinand Porsche invented an electric vehicle in 1898 that could do 21mph with a range of 49 miles and easily won a road race in 1899, we are only now being forced to look at alternatives to the ICE after so many years of convenience. Necessity is the mother of invention.

 

[shudycamps]

You're all an educated and well read bunch, so what year do you feel that electric charging points will match the number of Diesel/ petrol points and therefore start to outnumber Diesel / petrol pumps?

When man stops walking upright. Where will the Government find money to fund oh so many things if tax on fuel dries up. The first wave of Electric cars will diminish when the battery dies and has to be replaced. As a 2nd hand car, little to no market. Where's all the electricity going to come from if we stop producing coal to fuel power stations? I'm not over anxious about it.

 

[Quentin SF]

Where's all the electricity going to come from if we stop producing coal to fuel power stations? I'm not over anxious about it.

Just FYI, did you know we use almost no coal for power generation now?

In the third quarter of 2019, we generated 1% of our electricity from coal, 20% from nuclear, 38% from oil and gas. And 40% from renewables.

It's one of the few things the UK has to be proud of at present

 

[Sunstoner]

Ah, well, going back to the original question:



There are already, actually, more places you can charge your car in the UK than there are places you can fill up with fossil fuels.

Erm, but you (well, most folk) are still filling your EV up with fossil fuels.

 

[Quentin SF]

Erm, but you (well, most folk) are still filling your EV up with fossil fuels.

Partially, yes, though see my post above: EVs (in aggregate) across in the UK now get just 40% of their power from fossil fuels. Whereas fossil-fuel cars... Well, you get the idea

 

[Sunstoner]

Partially, yes, though see my post above: EVs (in aggregate) across in the UK now get just 40% of their power from fossil fuels. Whereas fossil-fuel cars... Well, you get the idea

I know I spotted that.

Weve taken the first steps in moving away from fossil fuels (big tick there) whilst undertaking major moves to use other resources from the planet to plug the soon to be massive battery demand.

Oh I dunno. Theres nowt green here simply moving the issue elsewhere for a while. (not so big tick).

Just hope technology can come up with the answer.

But t