Electric Scooters

[andyinluton]

At least you now seem to accept it is endemic and generally ignored/accepted.

No I havn't accepted anything. You keep going on about cars driving on the pavement being endemic, its not, cars parking on the pavement may be.
Pedestrians don't get mown down by parked cars, they do get mown down by 25kph scooters.

Do you not drive on the pavement to get into your driveway?

 

[WelshGas]

Fastest eScooters you can purchase - 75mph.

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Discover the fastest electric scooters based on real-world testing using precision GPS systems. Beyond specs, we dive into the performance, and ride quality of this fast scooters.

electric-scooter.guide

 

[GrannyJen]

I think @clarinetbcn should say something here.

Wiped out, bike and him,

and no return

 

[Lightning]

Well, I spent the whole of my life nearly as a write off,

Thrown into correction homes as an adolescent, broken by health problems before I was 40, without even an O level to my name leaving school, and Assistant Professor at a major university before 50.

Age is not a handicap, it's a privilege: I came home today after cycling 900 miles to raise money for people who will never cycle, or walk, or climb, or run.... and I just consider to be aged 74, to be allowed to even reach the age of 74, to be an almighty privilege and I promise to who I believe in to never waste my body, my health, my brain by just sitting on my arse when I could get off it and help others.

An old fart and proud of it.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with being old, being old and but you also think everybody on a scooter is a tosser.

 

[Lightning]

Of course, there is nothing wrong with being old, being old and but you also think everybody on a scooter is a tosser.

Hit send too early.

Anyway the scooter riders are the future geriatrics, complaining about hover boards. Not all old people are miserable old farts and not all scooter riders are tosses. Some are in both groups though for sure.

 

[Lightning]

Fastest eScooters you can purchase - 75mph.

The Top 10 Fastest Electric Scooters

Discover the fastest electric scooters based on real-world testing using precision GPS systems. Beyond specs, we dive into the performance, and ride quality of this fast scooters.

electric-scooter.guide

Ok for private land. Road legal motorbikes go a lot faster.

 

[Lightning]

If we banned pedestrians it would save an awful lot of lives by the sound of things.

That could work too. Banning cars saves cyclists too though.

 

[andyinluton]

That could work too. Banning cars saves cyclists too though.

wouldn't need to ban cars, cyclists could have the pavements - everyones a winner.

 

[Amarillo]

No I havn't accepted anything. You keep going on about cars driving on the pavement being endemic, its not, cars parking on the pavement may be.

Ahhh… Magic levitating cars that get parked on pavements without driving on pavements?

Have you a YouTube clip?

 

[Amarillo]

Fastest eScooters you can purchase - 75mph.

The Top 10 Fastest Electric Scooters

Discover the fastest electric scooters based on real-world testing using precision GPS systems. Beyond specs, we dive into the performance, and ride quality of this fast scooters.

electric-scooter.guide

Has anyone mentioned organ donors!?

 

[GrannyJen]

Of course, there is nothing wrong with being old, being old and but you also think everybody on a scooter is a tosser.

Do I?

Where have I said that?

 

[andyinluton]

Ahhh… Magic levitating cars that get parked on pavements without driving on pavements?

Have you a YouTube clip?

Isn't it what you've got fitted to your van?

Do you have a little rant about someone driving onto the kerb outside your house and how dangerous that was, whilst at the same time driving across the same pavement to get to your driveway?

If anything, you parking in the same way as that car would be less dangerous than you parking on your driveway, unless you've had a turntable fitted I'm guessing you reverse over the pavement either to get in or out?

 

[WelshGas]

Ok for private land. Road legal motorbikes go a lot faster.

Not on pavements or cycle ways. I'll await your next erudite post - NOT.

 

[Lightning]

Do I?

Where have I said that?

Post 244. Maybe you were not referring to everybody who rides them, when you referred to them as a group as ‘only the knob head wankers who seem to ride them’.
If that was the case perhaps you could of have said, ‘only some of the riders who are knob head wankers’, it would have been clearer.
If you can dish it out….

 

[WelshGas]

Has anyone mentioned organ donors!?

Well its a good way to become one.

 

[Amarillo]

Isn't it what you've got fitted to your van?

Do you have a little rant about someone driving onto the kerb outside your house and how dangerous that was, whilst at the same time driving across the same pavement to get to your driveway?

If anything, you parking in the same way as that car would be less dangerous than you parking on your driveway, unless you've had a turntable fitted I'm guessing you reverse over the pavement either to get in or out?

And now you are saying I said something that I didn’t say.

My point is purely about illegal driving being endemic and, as you do neatly demonstrate, tolerated.

And just so there is no confusion, crossing a pavement to access a drive at a local authority endorsed crossover, is not illegal.

And the relevance to e-scooters is that their unlawful use is neither endemic or tolerated, at the moment.

Their use on roads should be made lawful, and they should be properly regulated, and those regulations enforced with a light touch similar to that speeding and pavement driving of cars: the worst excesses by fines or court action, minor indiscretions by words of advice, and harmless activity even ignored or overlooked.

 

[andyinluton]

Thats fine I get it now, in summary its ok for you drive on the pavement outside your house, but anyone else doing it is not.

 

[Amarillo]

Well its a good way to become one.

We know the death rate per billion passenger km for most forms of transport, with flying being the safest (0.01) and motorcycling about the least safe (86); cycling and walking are about the same, 24 & 26 respectively.

May I assume you have some figures for e-scooters? Is is worse than motorcycling?

 

[GrannyJen]

Post 244. Maybe you were not referring to everybody who rides them, when you referred to them as a group as ‘only the knob head wankers who seem to ride them’.
If that was the case perhaps you could of have said, ‘only some of the riders who are knob head wankers’, it would have been clearer.
If you can dish it out….

Yes, the knob head wankers on them.

Go back a year or so ago and I was making similar comments in a cycling thread.

No matter what the device as long as they are easily acquired and so casually regulated it will attract those who intentionally or otherwise will use them in a way that they become a menace to other users of whatever common space they are being used in.

This has been an excellent discussion and I am particularly impressed with some of Tom's (@Amarillo) arguments for urban traffic restructuring. In that context I can certainly see a most useful application for the devices we are discussing.

 

[Louis II]

There is widely reported study that claims an average of about 40 pedestrians per year killed by cars whilst on the pavement.
Not sure scooters have been around long enough for there to be any meaningful stats.
It seems to me fairly logical that a situation where modes of transport with significantly different speeds and propensity for injury share the same space is inherently dangerous.
What's needed is dedicated safe spaces for existing and emerging forms of personal transport which have at least the potential to solve some of the problems of inner city congestion and general failure of current system of mass public transport.
Whilst those safe spaces don't exist then regulation is probably good stop gap to allow the slow process of changing the shape of our cities to catch up with rapid technological change.

 

[ArunAlec]

As much as I don’t want to see escooters on the pavement where they are likely to be a hazard to pedestrians, I don’t think they are suitable for our roads. Small wheels and deep potholes don’t mix well.

 

[Amarillo]

Thats fine I get it now, in summary its ok for you drive on the pavement outside your house, but anyone else doing it is not.

No you still don’t get it.

Here a Carroll diagram might help, but as I’m on Tapatalk it’s not so easy.

Driving can be categorised in four ways:
1. Lawful and acceptable
2. Lawful and unacceptable
3. Unlawful and acceptable
4. Unlawful and unacceptable

1. Is normal driving within the law, such as me crossing the pavement to access my driveway.
2. @WelshGas gave an example of drivers passing traffic queues for a tunnel on the inside then cutting in crossing broken white lines. Other examples would include tailgating, but not to the extent of being dangerous driving.
3. Includes driving at up to 10% + 2mph above the speed limit with no further aggravating factors, and driving on the pavement to park.
4. Driving at excessive speed, drink driving.

#1 and #3 are extremely common.

#2 is fairly rare (though WG might argue that is is common and have a point).

#4 is rare.

The same is likely to be true of e-scooter use if it is made widely legal and regulated. There will be unlawful but tolerated use. People will still complain about their unlawful use but the authorities will turn a blind eye, just as they do to the driving on the pavement outside my house.

A very rare sight! Just this second.

 

[WelshGas]

We know the death rate per billion passenger km for most forms of transport, with flying being the safest (0.01) and motorcycling about the least safe (86); cycling and walking are about the same, 24 & 26 respectively.

May I assume you have some figures for e-scooters? Is is worse than motorcycling?

Government urged to take action over the 'menace' of e-scooters and halt their UK roll-out

Transport bosses have suggested that e-scooters could be 100 times more dangerous than bicycles, while campaigners insist they are terrorising people on pavements

inews.co.uk

Make of it as you wish. Kent Police believe they might have a significant potential to be dangerous.

 

[Lightning]

Yes, the knob head wankers on them.

Go back a year or so ago and I was making similar comments in a cycling thread.

No matter what the device as long as they are easily acquired and so casually regulated it will attract those who intentionally or otherwise will use them in a way that they become a menace to other users of whatever common space they are being used in.

Please do try and keep up. perhaps your expectation bias was getting too much for you.

This has been an excellent discussion and I am particularly impressed with some of Tom's (@Amarillo) arguments for urban traffic restructuring. In that context I can certainly see a most useful application for the devices we are discussing.

Well as I said, perhaps you could have been clearer. There is really need to be so defensive, it’s an easy mistake to make.

Anyway, moving on, I agree with you, although it’s no different to the numerous knob head wankers who drive cars, despite the regulation.

 

[ArunAlec]

No you still don’t get it.

Here a Carroll diagram might help, but as I’m on Tapatalk it’s not so easy.

Driving can be categorised in four ways:
1. Lawful and tolerated
2. Lawful and not tolerated
3. Unlawful and tolerated
4. Unlawful and not tolerated

1. Is normal driving within the law, such as me crossing the pavement to access my driveway.
2. @WelshGas gave an example of drivers passing traffic queues for a tunnel on the inside then cutting in crossing broken white lines. Other examples would include tailgating, but not to the extent of being dangerous driving.
3. Includes driving at up to 10% + 2mph above the speed limit with no further aggravating factors, and driving on the pavement to park.
4. Driving at excessive speed, drink driving.

#1 and #3 are extremely common.

#2 is fairly rare (though WG might argue that is is common and have a point).

#4 is rare.

The same is likely to be true of e-scooter use if it is made widely legal and regulated. There will be unlawful but tolerated use. People will still complain about their unlawful use but the authorities will turn a blind eye, just as they do to the driving on the pavement outside my house.

A very rare sight! Just this second.

I’d get onto the council, that pavement needs a good dose of Weedol!