Electric Scooters

[Amarillo]

All for the government regulating and embracing e-bikes, and pedal bikes, as well.

The problem is this thread is about E-SCOOTERS.

As an aside, how many vehicles do you have?

19 as a family: two cars, nine bikes (including one tandem and one tandem triplet), one cargo trike, two bike trailers, three scooters, two sleds.

 

[WelshGas]

19 as a family: two cars, nine bikes (including one tandem and one tandem triplet), one cargo trike, two bike trailers, three scooters, two sleds.

Dump the cars then and then you could speak from a position of authority.

 

[Amarillo]

On e-scooters? That’s where the illegality is rife. Cars on pavements? I don’t know that I see much of that in London. You won’t park for long without a ticket anyway

I have them on the pavement right outside my house on multiple occasions throughout the day everyday. The police ignore it completely. Civil enforcement officers ticket once in a blue moon- about once every five years.

It was the same where I lived previously, also in London.

 

[Amarillo]

Dump the cars then and then you could speak from a position of authority.

I don’t know how giving up driving would make me any more of an authority on the lawlessness of motorists.

 

[Borris]

There is a huge amount of venom directed at other road users from motor vehicle users. And an awful lot of disinformation and exaggeration.

But when you look at facts rather than anecdote the car driver is the real villain of our streets. Lawlessness abounds, from speeding to red light jumping to driving on the pavement (or onto the pavement as @andyinluton prefers to call it) to stopping in bike boxes. Yet cyclists, horse riders, and now e-scooters are perceived as the threat. They are not, they are the solution to our choked and choking city streets. They don’t cause congestion, they relieve it. One more e-scooter is (potentially) one less car.

I have never used an e-scooter, and am unlikely ever to buy one. (I can see that I might at some point in the future have a go on someone else’s). But I can see the advantages for a great many people in using them, and while undoubtedly there will be accidents, I don’t foresee carnage. Falling off an e-scooter at 25kph (the speed limit for e-bikes) is unlikely to result in life threatening injury.

So my advice to government would be to regulate and embrace e-bikes. They should revolutionise personal travel in our cities and reduce congestion.

I agree that motor vehicles aren't good for the planet and are the main cause of congestion.
I agree that some drivers can be both villainous and venomous although those traites aren't exclusive to that group of road users. I agree that motor vehicles do more damage and kill more people than bikes, horses and Escooters. I also agree that we need to find new inovative solutions to these problems.

However this thread is about Escooters and their introduction so can we please not get too hung up on these points. Instead here's an interesting article on this issue from a world wide perspective:

E-scooters suddenly appeared everywhere, but now they're riding into serious trouble

Places around the world are banning or restricting electric scooters after deadly accidents, littering problems and research suggesting they're not always green as thought. Find out where they're no longer welcome.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Lightning]

The parking on pavements issue has been addressed in Bristol by requiring them to be left only in council approved parking zones to end the ride.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0046/5823/3459/files/emissions-by-mode-of-transportation-electric-scooters_600x600.png?v=1613441787

 

[Amarillo]

I agree that motor vehicles aren't good for the planet and are the main cause of congestion.
I agree that some drivers can be both villainous and venomous although those traites aren't exclusive to that group of road users. I agree that motor vehicles do more damage and kill more people than bikes, horses and Escooters. I also agree that we need to find new inovative solutions to these problems.

However this thread is about Escooters and their introduction so can we please not get too hung up on these points. Instead here's an interesting article on this issue from a world wide perspective:

E-scooters suddenly appeared everywhere, but now they're riding into serious trouble

Places around the world are banning or restricting electric scooters after deadly accidents, littering problems and research suggesting they're not always green as thought. Find out where they're no longer welcome.

edition.cnn.com

The menace of hire e-scooters being left anywhere is not something I’d properly considered. But regulation could easily resolve that issue.

 

[WelshGas]

I don’t know how giving up driving would make me any more of an authority on the lawlessness of motorists.

You couldn’t be classed as a hypocrite.

 

[Joker 1299]

You couldn’t be classed as a hypocrite.

You forget, Paul, Tom never breaks the speed limit, the weight limit, or the COVID travel limits (except to collect chickens).

 

[Amarillo]

I have them on the pavement right outside my house on multiple occasions throughout the day everyday.

Within a few minutes of returning home from a weekend away.

A motor car driven on the pavement and left there.

No excuse, I know, for an e-scooter to be ridden on the pavement, but it does illustrate that lawbreaking is regularly overlooked.

And this bit of pavement used to have paving slabs and they were replaced last year with tarmac because of the damage caused by cars parking there.

 

[andyinluton]

Within a few minutes of returning home from a weekend away.

A motor car driven on the pavement and left there.

No excuse, I know, for an e-scooter to be ridden on the pavement, but it does illustrate that lawbreaking is regularly overlooked.

And this bit of pavement used to have paving slabs and they were replaced last year with tarmac because of the damage caused by cars parking there.

And how many people were at risk when it parked there, and how many people are inconvenienced by it being there?
Looks like a sensible bit of parking, plenty of room for prams to get past & room for two cars to pass each other in the road. What’s the problem?

 

[Jodalo]

There is a huge amount of venom directed at other road users from motor vehicle users. And an awful lot of disinformation and exaggeration.

But when you look at facts rather than anecdote the car driver is the real villain of our streets. Lawlessness abounds, from speeding to red light jumping to driving on the pavement (or onto the pavement as @andyinluton prefers to call it) to stopping in bike boxes. Yet cyclists, horse riders, and now e-scooters are perceived as the threat. They are not, they are the solution to our choked and choking city streets. They don’t cause congestion, they relieve it. One more e-scooter is (potentially) one less car.

I have never used an e-scooter, and am unlikely ever to buy one. (I can see that I might at some point in the future have a go on someone else’s). But I can see the advantages for a great many people in using them, and while undoubtedly there will be accidents, I don’t foresee carnage. Falling off an e-scooter at 25kph (the speed limit for e-bikes) is unlikely to result in life threatening injury.

So my advice to government would be to regulate and embrace e-bikes. They should revolutionise personal travel in our cities and reduce congestion.

There was a fatal e-scooter accident last week at Falmer railway station (East Sussex).
54 yr old male into a barrier on a footpath. Don’t know whether it’s the first, certainly won’t be the last.

 

[Amarillo]

And how many people were at risk when it parked there, and how many people are inconvenienced by it being there?
Looks like a sensible bit of parking, plenty of room for prams to get past & room for two cars to pass each other in the road. What’s the problem?

Many would also claim that a hire e-scooter could be safely ridden on the pavement. I have highlighted the damage to the paving slabs which have had to be replaced.

Also, where do you draw the line on how much onto the pavement you can drive a car would it become illegal. And if it were legal to drive a car on the pavement how could you justify making it illegal to ride an e-scooter on the pavement. Or do you hand the first foot or so of pavements over to cars and e-scooters and other vehicles?

 

[andyinluton]

Many would also claim that a hire e-scooter could be safely ridden on the pavement. I have highlighted the damage to the paving slabs which have had to be replaced.

Also, where do you draw the line on how much onto the pavement you can drive a car would it become illegal. And if it were legal to drive a car on the pavement how could you justify making it illegal to ride an e-scooter on the pavement. Or do you hand the first foot or so of pavements over to cars and e-scooters and other vehicles?

Stop being deliberately pedantic.
You banging on about cars illegally driving on the pavement has nothing to do with electric scooters.

Cars do not drive along the pavements at 25kph unlike electric scooters.

On a road like yours with no visible pedestrians I don't have a problem with bikes or scooters on the pavement.

Try Holborn or Covent Garden where I spend most of my time, and anything other than pedestrians on the pavement cause chaos. At a guess most of the scooter riders would previously been tube / bus passengers.
Looking at the current low usage of buses during the working day, there is a good argument to get rid of buses completely and turn the bus lanes over to scooters & bikes.

 

[WelshGas]

Many would also claim that a hire e-scooter could be safely ridden on the pavement. I have highlighted the damage to the paving slabs which have had to be replaced.

Also, where do you draw the line on how much onto the pavement you can drive a car would it become illegal. And if it were legal to drive a car on the pavement how could you justify making it illegal to ride an e-scooter on the pavement. Or do you hand the first foot or so of pavements over to cars and e-scooters and other vehicles?

Maybe if the Council made up its mind regarding parking then you wouldn’t have a problem.
A 2 lane road with no yellow lines, hence parking allowed and a large cross hatched area in the centre narrowing the road considerably. Why?
I think the driver was being very sensible, trying to park without obstructing the pavement or the traffic lane.

 

[Lightning]

Maybe if the Council made up its mind regarding parking then you wouldn’t have a problem.
A 2 lane road with no yellow lines, hence parking allowed and a large cross hatched area in the centre narrowing the road considerably. Why?
I think the driver was being very sensible, trying to park without obstructing the pavement or the traffic lane.

There is a better argument to get rid of cars all together in city centres and hand over the space completely to scooters, ebikes and public transport.

By every metric of safety for pedestrians and environmental impact, cars are obviously worse than escooters. Replace the old technology with the new. If you want to keep dry catch a bus.

 

[andyinluton]

Lets just turn over London to Boris bikes & E scooters, it obviously works in China.........

 

[Lightning]

Lets just turn over London to Boris bikes & E scooters, it obviously works in China.........

View attachment 81030

When you look at the space everybody who is not in a car is crammed into, a narrow strip adjacent to buildings, it’s time the vast space occupied by cars was reclaimed.

 

[GrannyJen]

Being the terribly liberal, totally pink, laissez-faire female that I am I have nothing against E-scooters.

Only the knob-head wankers that seem to be on them

 

[WelshGas]

There is a better argument to get rid of cars all together in city centres and hand over the space completely to scooters, ebikes and public transport.

By every metric of safety for pedestrians and environmental impact, cars are obviously worse than escooters. Replace the old technology with the new. If you want to keep dry catch a bus.

Not a better argument, but an excellent way of destroying city centres and restricting access to many groups of people.

 

[Lightning]

Being the terribly liberal, totally pink, laissez-faire female that I am I have nothing against E-scooters.

Only the knob-head wankers that seem to be on them

This perception might be because you are an old fart though? What do you think of skate boarders?

 

[WelshGas]

Being the terribly liberal, totally pink, laissez-faire female that I am I have nothing against E-scooters.

Only the knob-head wankers that seem to be on them

Well there’s a couple on here, but probably a bit old to ride them, but they do the talk.

 

[Lightning]

Well there’s a couple on here, but probably a bit old to ride them, but they do the talk.

Too easy.

 

[Lightning]

Not a better argument, but an excellent way of destroying city centres and restricting access to many groups of people.

It’s already started. I imagine many people think the opposite is true.

Large areas of London to be made car-free as lockdown eased

Mayor Sadiq Khan says city needs to be repurposed for people as it emerges from coronavirus restrictions

www.theguardian.com

 

[WelshGas]

What exactly are the benefits of a Hire E-scooter compared to a Hire E-bicycle?
1. Single person conveyance.
2. Electrical power
3. The rider has to steer.
4 The rider has to balance.
5. Transports rider from A to B.

On the E-bicycle the rider determines the speed by actually pedalling upto a maximum 15mph with electrical assistance.

On the E-scooter the rider determines the speed using a hand throttle without any other form of physical assistance from the rider.

So, the E-bicycle aids the rider by providing an element of exercise and physical movement.
The E-scooter does nothing.