Electric shock from van

[WelshGas]

Essentially misleading

This mentiones earth and neutral connection (TNC-S) which is against wiring regs for caravan sites. All hook up points should be on dedicated earth rods. (TT). You should see an earth connection box in the ground nearby.

Anyway, get it checked by a pro.

I presume those are UK regulations. On the Continent, especially smaller sites - anything goes.
I've seen 50m mains hookup leads across a gravel road and worse.

 

[andyinluton]

It is better to touch the metal of the vehicle with the back of a flat hand prior to entering the vehicle. If the vehicle is live the shock will cause the muscles to contract and close the hand, if around a handle etc you would then be left unable to release yourself. Using the back of the hand will cause your hand to move away from the live metal. At least I remember something slightly useful from too many years working on military communications vehicles...

I find it better to use the back of someone else hand rather than my own. & stand far enough away that they can't grab you.

 

[Erbster]

Anyone with an aluminium body Apple Macbook Pro may be able to detect this effect for themselves - the power supply is only earthed if you have the Apple mains flex connected to the power supply. If you replace the mains flex with the plug that connects directly to the power supply, it isn't earthed and the Macbook's casing will have a parasite voltage on it. If you lightly rub your finger across the aluminium surface it feels oddly 'floaty' and you will feel a little tingle if you touch the mac while you are also touching something that has a good earth. I occasionally have to use two Macbooks at the same time, and I often get zapped.

Well, that's interesting; I've often experienced this (at home) and thought I was imagining things!


Charles

 

[RichardSweeney]

Hi all
Just want to say thank you for all you comments we are now at a different camp site n HIrsthals and have hook up again without the two pin extension plug which I used in the previous camp site
All working fine now so can only assume it is the two pin plug or the post that is faulty
Mentioned to the site owners but all I got is a stare

 

[WelshGas]

Hi all
Just want to say thank you for all you comments we are now at a different camp site n HIrsthals and have hook up again without the two pin extension plug which I used in the previous camp site
All working fine now so can only assume it is the two pin plug or the post that is faulty
Mentioned to the site owners but all I got is a stare

Very likely to be Campsite Electrics.

 

[sidepod]

Two pin plug!!!!!!!! No earth ? WTF????

 

[GrannyJen]

[QUOTE="RichardSweeney, post: 225781, member: 11802
Mentioned to the site owners but all I got is a stare[/QUOTE]

They were probably in shock

Sorry I'll get my coat ..........

 

[sidepod]

Are the regs the same in Denmark?

I would hope so.

The connection of Neutral and Earth essentially exports the earth potential from the supply origin to the point of use.
In other words you standing touching the van are at a different potential to the earth of the supply. Voltage gradients in the earth cause current flow which gives you a belt.
Having a local earth rod eradicates this voltage gradient.

This is what kills horses. They have a wide stance and crossing a voltage gradient causes a current between front and rear legs crossing the heart.
Stables use a 10mA RCD in the supply.

So if you see a hook up without an earth rod, beware.

 

[Stoneybroke]

If at all worried, get an electrician in. If you are confident that the electrical system is essentially safe, but uncomfortable, read on:

Some devices, particularly those which only have a two-pin mains plug (i.e. no earth connection) are allowed to 'float' at anything up to 50 volts. Because the neutral wire and the earth wire are connected at some point - depending on how the earthing arrangements are made, this is usually in the supply - then the 50 volt potential can appear on earthed metal parts, like the van bodywork.

It is most likely that what you are feeling is a 50 volt leakage, because your RCD in the vans hookup would most likely trip in case of a wiring fault. Of course, you can press the 'test' button on the RCD to double check that it is operational.

The problem then, is where is the voltage coming from?

Either you have an appliance plugged in that floats - commonly TVs, laptop power supplies, etc. Unplug everything and try again.

Or the voltage exists on the earth of the incoming power connection. You could try connecting an earthed appliance direct to the external supply. If you can detect the voltage on any earthed metal on this appliance, then the incoming supply is at fault.

Anyone with an aluminium body Apple Macbook Pro may be able to detect this effect for themselves - the power supply is only earthed if you have the Apple mains flex connected to the power supply. If you replace the mains flex with the plug that connects directly to the power supply, it isn't earthed and the Macbook's casing will have a parasite voltage on it. If you lightly rub your finger across the aluminium surface it feels oddly 'floaty' and you will feel a little tingle if you touch the mac while you are also touching something that has a good earth. I occasionally have to use two Macbooks at the same time, and I often get zapped.

Those devices with only live and neutral inputs should be double insulated - i.e. there is NO chance that any power should pass to any external component.
Neutral and earth should not be connected on a consumer supply otherwise the Earth Leakage Breaker (RCD) would trip.
If your Macbook 'tingles' it should not be any mains voltage, there may (though unlikely) be some induced power in the case.
Floating 50volts? There may be a degree of latitude on the acceptable input voltage (230-250 volts often seen on equipment labels) but that 50 volts doesn't appear somewhere else! Certainly not on the van bodywork as the EHU mains input should be wholly insulated from the bodywork.

 

[JohnGuppy]

Sidepod is correct have it checked by a pro don't think because you own a new vehicle or a 25 yr. old vehicle get it done every year and don't forget all appliances you use need to be PAT tested and a certificate issued this is industry standard you don't get a second chance

many years ago I was called to a house to install a new TV aerial , the new owners had just moved in while I was on the roof I watched there dog running around the garden suddenly it stopped running and collapsed , I got down off the roof and told the owners there dog was not well it was dead , it turned out the previous owners had put a new cable across the lawn only a few inches under the ground the lawn mower had exposed the cable and the dog found it such a sad experience and loss just cannot imagine it could have been a child

My point is if you buy a hook up lead don't take it will be ok , that's why VW don't supply any leads except a lead you cant use in this country and your dealer who you paid all your money too has not even checked your new purchase , if like me you bought a hook up lead and 13amp adaptor , I had it checked and the vehicle tested and found my old plastic electric kettle failed the test

 

[larrylamb]

Two pin plug!!!!!!!! No earth ? WTF????

I think the OP means a Euro outlet/plug with 2 pins and earth.

 

[andyinluton]

don't forget all appliances you use need to be PAT tested and a certificate issued this is industry standard you don't get a second chance

If you are a private owner you do not need PAT tests or any certification of any kind.

If you are hiring out a van - i.e. a commercial enterprise you do not actually need it but it is the only way that you will prove in the event of an electrical accident that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the hirers. Easiest get out is to not provide any 240v electrical appliances with the van.

I wouldn't bother testing a new hook up lead either, just use common sense with a visual inspection to check there is no physical damage. As long as you are not buying 99p ones from china they should be ok.

 

[Dave650]

Here is the H&S myth busters link re PAT http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/xmasmyths/christmas-lights.htm

 

[morfar]

this is normal on campsite in denmark
in denmark this is 3 pin with earth to be found on some places

se tlink for adapter to suko

 

[sidepod]

If you are a private owner you do not need PAT tests or any certification of any kind.

If you are hiring out a van - i.e. a commercial enterprise you do not actually need it but it is the only way that you will prove in the event of an electrical accident that you have taken reasonable steps to ensure the safety of the hirers. Easiest get out is to not provide any 240v electrical appliances with the van.

I wouldn't bother testing a new hook up lead either, just use common sense with a visual inspection to check there is no physical damage. As long as you are not buying 99p ones from china they should be ok.

Brilliant. Who gives a toss about the important invisible bit like tight correct connections, as long as it passes a visual.

There you are sitting on your cloud looking down at the inquest,

"Well your honour, I gave it a good coat of lookin at, how was I to know it wasn't connected properly?"

Crack on.

 

[andyinluton]

So you take apart a brand new item to check the connections are tight, do you then get someone in to check that its been put back together correctly?

Should I be wandering round Argos with a PAT tester & test every kettle before I decide which one to buy, or should I trust the manufacturer to have some sort of testing regime in the factory?
Then when should I get it checked? after a year? X number of uses? its got a plastic body so whats the worst thats going to happen - dodgy connection inside somewhere it will either stop working or it trips an RCD at which point it goes in the bin & I go back to Argos & get a new one.

Coming from a long line of DIYers with a bit of common sense ( i've built & rewired & plumbed houses for myself) , & having traced my family tree back over 400 years in all directions, I've yet to find anyone that I'm related to thats dropped dead because of dodgy electrics.

In a professional capacity, working on & around building sites I have a good understanding of what needs testing & when, with the temporary installations in harsh environments its sometimes weekly with daily visual inspections. If I get it wrong I could end up behind bars.



At home the most likely item to fail is extension leads i.e. the hook up lead on a cali. The chances of failure can be mitigated easily - always pull the plug not the cable store it carefully & do a visual inspection as you roll it up or unroll it. If its plugged in at home its protected by a RCD which will trip if theres a fault so its effectively checked electricaly every time I use it.


Common sense should prevail - I believe I am sufficiently competent to asses if a domestic electrical item is safe to use, there is a risk I may be wrong. If you read of me being electrocuted using a brand new plastic kettle please feel free to say I told you so!

 

[AlanC]

Brilliant. Who gives a toss about the important invisible bit like tight correct connections, as long as it passes a visual.

There you are sitting on your cloud looking down at the inquest,

"Well your honour, I gave it a good coat of lookin at, how was I to know it wasn't connected properly?"

Crack on.

We rented our flat for a few years and there is a requirement that all electrical appliances are 'safety tested' annually. When I asked how the electric oven, built-in fridge and dishwasher were tested I was told 'we just turn them on and see if is looks like they are working'. £150.00 for 1/2hrs work!

Alan