Grand Cali GC Off Grid and Battery Upgrade

[ShmBK]

when off grid, without EHU or the diesel energy option, is it possible use heating and/or hot water enough for a shower using the gas and electricity?

seen a few posts last year about people talking about potential for upgraded batteries, but has anyone actually done it? voided warranty? price? lithium batteries?

saw in the fb group that europeans use this power station and I guess an inverter plugged into their EHU or plug in heaters. I won't use a diesel generator.

(more questions to come I'm sure - is it preferred that I resurrect old threads?)

 

[WelshGas]

when off grid, without EHU or the diesel energy option, is it possible use heating and/or hot water enough for a shower using the gas and electricity?

seen a few posts last year about people talking about potential for upgraded batteries, but has anyone actually done it? voided warranty? price? lithium batteries?

saw in the fb group that europeans use this power station and I guess an inverter plugged into their EHU or plug in heaters. I won't use a diesel generator.

(more questions to come I'm sure - is it preferred that I resurrect old threads?)

It would be a good idea to change your Avatar vehicle details. You post in the Grand California section yet your vehicle details say T6 Cali on order. Will avoid some confusion in the future.

 

[ShmBK]

It would be a good idea to change your Avatar vehicle details. You post in the Grand California section yet your vehicle details say T6 Cali on order. Will avoid some confusion in the future.

I will when or if I actually change vans. But in all honesty will probably keep it anonymous if that’s ok!

 

[Amarillo]

I will when or if I actually change vans. But in all honesty will probably keep it anonymous if that’s ok!

How do you expect to get the right advice if people don’t know your vehicle because of conflicting information?

 

[AlisonF]

@Amarillo I assumed he was asking about a GC 600 or 680 because that’s the folder it’s posted in.

I guess it can be confusing if people have a vehicle and are asking questions about another model.

I’m sure now this has been pointed out then @ShmBK will be more specific next time.

 

[ShmBK]

It’s referring to the grand California. I thought it would be obvious given I posted in that topic .... apologies if it it wasn’t

 

[greenfintry]

when off grid, without EHU or the diesel energy option, is it possible use heating and/or hot water enough for a shower using the gas and electricity?

seen a few posts last year about people talking about potential for upgraded batteries, but has anyone actually done it? voided warranty? price? lithium batteries?

saw in the fb group that europeans use this power station and I guess an inverter plugged into their EHU or plug in heaters. I won't use a diesel generator.

(more questions to come I'm sure - is it preferred that I resurrect old threads?)

Using the eco flow delta for the last 18 months...... good and dependable, useful for running garden appliances instead of buying lots of Li battery cordless things that are either underpowered or run out too quickly. Not sure about water heating as about the most energy intensive thing you can do.... would sooner use gas to boil a pan or sling a solar shower bag on the roof during the day ...

 

[ShmBK]

Using the eco flow delta for the last 18 months...... good

That’s a great idea for hone usage. do you use it the van or do you have a second battery?
I’m guessing you have EU plug on it, haven’t seen a U.K. version.

Did I misinterpret on the Facebook translation? Do you think it’s even capable of extending off grid time in terms of hearing and water

 

[greenfintry]

There is the leisure battery in the van, ut it is limited for appliances to being on hook up.... the battery is free standing so can be used anywhere and is fairly portable. I bought in uk but have moved to France. Power in is via a standard kettle lead so can be uk or eu type. Output has multi shape sockets for uk or eu again... and even us type, so very flexible. If charged before you go, or could use solar etc to charge, it extends off grid life...... you could run a small electric heater off it, but more useful for using for other gadgets.... small microwave, hair dryer etc

 

[sapto]

Not an expert here however changing the battery from "normal" to LiPo gives some extra juice I guess? Combined with some solar power? What would you like to run off grid? And for how long?

 

[ShmBK]

Not an expert here however changing the battery from "normal" to LiPo gives some extra juice I guess? Combined with some solar power? What would you like to run off grid? And for how long?

I’m making the assumption the grand Cali electrics are just like the normal cali - I can’t use the 3 pin plugs unless I’m on hook up? Nor heating/hot water by electric only. Even if I have solar panels.

I’d like up to 5 days in Scottish autumn/spring, Running as close to exclusivly on electric as possible (or minimal gas). heating when needed, 2-3 showers in total, daily hot water for dishes. And able to use toaster or a nEspresso machine.

I think the best solution will be river delta I linked to above, or the smaller one. May ask an electrician about using that to supply the wall plugs in kitchen . But if I plug the EHU into one of these electric generators via adapters, then i think I get all the functionality of being on a campsite.

i wonder if it’s possible or to divert the solar power into the river delta? That Might be a step too far In terms of warranty and function. But it seems to solar isn’t really that useful if the main battery is so limited off grid.

 

[sapto]

I’m making the assumption the grand Cali electrics are just like the normal cali - I can’t use the 3 pin plugs unless I’m on hook up? Nor heating/hot water by electric only. Even if I have solar panels.

I’d like up to 5 days in Scottish autumn/spring, Running as close to exclusivly on electric as possible (or minimal gas). heating when needed, 2-3 showers in total, daily hot water for dishes. And able to use toaster or a nEspresso machine.

I think the best solution will be river delta I linked to above, or the smaller one. May ask an electrician about using that to supply the wall plugs in kitchen . But if I plug the EHU into one of these electric generators via adapters, then i think I get all the functionality of being on a campsite.

i wonder if it’s possible or to divert the solar power into the river delta? That Might be a step too far In terms of warranty and function. But it seems to solar isn’t really that useful if the main battery is so limited off grid.

Maybe of some help/search for:
Lithium Battery Installation

Or an alternative:

Portable Power Stations, Solar Generators & Home Backup | Goal Zero

Experience the power of Goal Zero by improving your lifestyle with our portable power stations, solar generators, solar panels, power banks, and home energy storage solutions.

www.goalzero.com

 

[Wondering Star]

Check out a company called Roadpro, plenty of info on lithium and off grid camping.
Our Hymer PVC will do 2/3 days with two 95 ah AGM batteries and 200w of Solar when Sunlight is scarce.
Diesel heating and compressor fridge eat power.
Due to have 2 x 95ah lithium batteries and associated equipment fitted.
Not cheap 3k plus.

 

[Vagophile]

Why the concentration on electricity? Pound for pound, gas is the most efficient energy source. New technologies are developing, but there is nothing wrong with tried and tested and it's generally less expensive. I can't quite remember the numbers now, but I had 24kg refillable gas (2 cylinders) 160W solar, 2x95Ah leisure batteries (Banner) and a 2000W inverter. My trips away extended occasionally to 120 days and in 15 years, I never went near a campsite summer or winter unless it had some particular attraction.
I agree with @Wondering Star, Roadpro are very good re off grid camping, but if you want all the latest technology, it's going to cost you. You need to think very carefully about what you really need.

 

[ShmBK]

Check out a company called Roadpro, plenty of info on lithium and off grid camping.
Our Hymer PVC will do 2/3 days with two 95 ah AGM batteries and 200w of Solar when Sunlight is scarce.
Diesel heating and compressor fridge eat power.
Due to have 2 x 95ah lithium batteries and associated equipment fitted.
Not cheap 3k plus.

sounds like a great system.
Here’s my thinking:

roadpro
95 ma at 12 v is 1140 Wh according to google. Battery Is £1100 and complicated/expensive installation
can’t heat hot water/heating with electric off grid (in GC at least)
Claims to last 20yrs (50% capacity?)

or
River delta
about 1400 Wh
£1200 on amazon
Portable, quick charge
Plug appliances in direct,
With various adapters, I think I could plug into EHU and use all plugs and heating and hot water. But how long would it last?
Claims 800 cycles maintain 80% capacity
Expandable (pro version, not delta)

 

[ShmBK]

Why the concentration on electricity? Pound for pound, gas is the most efficient energy source. New technologies are developing, but there is nothing wrong with tried and tested and it's generally less expensive. I can't quite remember the numbers now, but I had 24kg refillable gas (2 cylinders) 160W solar, 2x95Ah leisure batteries (Banner) and a 2000W inverter. My trips away extended occasionally to 120 days and in 15 years, I never went near a campsite summer or winter unless it had some particular attraction.
I agree with @Wondering Star, Roadpro are very good re off grid camping, but if you want all the latest technology, it's going to cost you. You need to think very carefully about what you really need.

I guess I like the idea of using solar to be off grid and gas refilling etc sounds like a headache. Also prefer to avoid polluting industries (I realise the double standards in having a heavy diesel vehicle at 20-25 mpg)

using a toaster and proper kettle and having hot water/heating off grid would be a real game changer for us. And having he space for it in a grand cali.

all part of trying to convince myself the benefits of GC outweigh the fugly forehead and it’s a better deal than a hymer, adria, etc.

looking at your set up, I think I’ll need a second battery in the GC, and probably have to acquiesce to gas for heat and water

 

[The Blue Merle]

I’m making the assumption the grand Cali electrics are just like the normal cali - I can’t use the 3 pin plugs unless I’m on hook up? Nor heating/hot water by electric only. Even if I have solar panels.

I’d like up to 5 days in Scottish autumn/spring, Running as close to exclusivly on electric as possible (or minimal gas). heating when needed, 2-3 showers in total, daily hot water for dishes. And able to use toaster or a nEspresso machine.

I think the best solution will be river delta I linked to above, or the smaller one. May ask an electrician about using that to supply the wall plugs in kitchen . But if I plug the EHU into one of these electric generators via adapters, then i think I get all the functionality of being on a campsite.

i wonder if it’s possible or to divert the solar power into the river delta? That Might be a step too far In terms of warranty and function. But it seems to solar isn’t really that useful if the main battery is so limited off grid.

I can do 4/5 nights in my joker (in one spot). Have 2x 110w leisure bats, 110w solar and 70l tanks.
You will run out of water first or fill waste tank, or loo. Easy to keep the electric going.
2showers (if quick) and washing up and flannel wash.
Tend to do about 6/7 nights before a campsite.

 

[ShmBK]

I can do 4/5 nights in my joker (in one spot). Have 2x 110w leisure bats, 110w solar and 70l tanks.
You will run out of water first or fill waste tank, or loo. Easy to keep the electric going.
2showers (if quick) and washing up and flannel wash.
Tend to do about 6/7 nights before a campsite.

Is your hot water in joker gas or electric based?
If I could use electricity/solar for hot water or heating, and got a portable induction hob, I could potentially ditch gas.

can’t wait for my 2025 Tesla cybertruck conversion to solve all these problems!

 

[El Greco]

sounds like a great system.
Here’s my thinking:

roadpro
95 ma at 12 v is 1140 Wh according to google. Battery Is £1100 and complicated/expensive installation
can’t heat hot water/heating with electric off grid (in GC at least)
Claims to last 20yrs (50% capacity?)

or
River delta
about 1400 Wh
£1200 on amazon
Portable, quick charge
Plug appliances in direct,
With various adapters, I think I could plug into EHU and use all plugs and heating and hot water. But how long would it last?
Claims 800 cycles maintain 80% capacity
Expandable (pro version, not delta)

Assuming you could use 100% of the battery capacity and the conversion to 240 volts is 100% efficient then you could raise 4 litres of water through 30 deg C. This should give a flavour of the very substantial amount of energy required for any heating and why battery power is not used unless one has a bank of batteries. The reason a Cali uses gas for cooking and diesel for space heating even though it gas 2 leisure batteries. Food for thought.

I will be interested to see the progress of your project.

 

[The Blue Merle]

Is your hot water in joker gas or electric based?
If I could use electricity/solar for hot water or heating, and got a portable induction hob, I could potentially ditch gas.

can’t wait for my 2025 Tesla cybertruck conversion to solve all these problems!

Hot water and heating is off diesel heater

 

[ShmBK]

Assuming you could use 100% of the battery capacity and the conversion to 240 volts is 100% efficient then you could raise 4 litres of water through 30 deg C. This should give a flavour of the very substantial amount of energy required for any heating and why battery power is not used unless one has a bank of batteries. The reason a Cali uses gas for cooking and diesel for space heating even though it gas 2 leisure batteries. Food for thought.

I will be interested to see the progress of your project.

Food for thought indeed. Electric is cheap, but difficult to store.... need a Tesla (or other) powerwall.

 

[ShmBK]

I know there’s plenty of theads about off grid, but these aren’t always applicable to grand cali. Been doing some research here on caliboard.de through google chrome translation.
I’m no sparky and never studied physics at school, nor in my 2 degreees, so bear with me....

So the the GC is much more energy hungry that smaller Calis. The 92Ah AGM will unlikely last more than a night or two without a solar charge. I’m struggling to see where people are putting a second battery.I gather The leisure battery is in the bonnet - not ideal for a lithium upgrade (living in N Scotland) the starter battery is in passenger footwell.

upgrading the leisure battery with a 300 Ah LiFePO4 (eg www.roamerbatteries.com) or liontron’s ‘Arctic’ 200 Ah sounds nice, but would I have to upgrade the starter battery to match it? (Not a huge issue if the van can access both batteries for ‘leisure’?)

i read about a guy who had a professional installation in Germany where he had his leisure battery ‘uncoupled’ from the starter battery and moved to the back cupboard. He added a new solar controller, so his factory panels charged the new battery (and added his own panels to boost it). He also put in an 1800W inverter too. Obviously he forgoes the electricwarranty, but gains so much off grid capability.

roamer battery (30kg) is about £1000 for a 300Ah battery, other brands are about £2200.

my other option is ecoflow delta is £1400 for 1260Wh at 50.4V = a paltry 25.6Ah?
Roamer is equiv to 300Ah x 12.8v = 3840Wh
(Happy to be corrected if google has failed me)

this sounds like a winner to me. I realise I’d have to manually charge the new leisure battery (which wont be so fragile as an AGM). But I guess this won’t be detrimental to the engine battery? Would 2x 100 (or 200) be a better idea?

I’d welcome any input/suggestions or ideas how this could improved.

 

[soppelsa]

In physics you don't get ewt for nowt (Lancs)
You will probably have to upgrade the alternator to charge a lithium ion + the additional fuel required.
Horizontal solar panels won't give you much in Scotland.
I know someone monitored the output from 2 roof panels on a normal Scottish day,don't be surprised to get a measly 20w.
Vw need to get their act together and fit 2 leisure batteries onboard.
They have dropped the ball on this one, the GC needs more off grid capacity.
Hymer supply vans that can do 5 days without hook up(L,Ion batts)

 

[sapto]

I know there’s plenty of theads about off grid, but these aren’t always applicable to grand cali. Been doing some research here on caliboard.de through google chrome translation.
I’m no sparky and never studied physics at school, nor in my 2 degreees, so bear with me....

So the the GC is much more energy hungry that smaller Calis. The 92Ah AGM will unlikely last more than a night or two without a solar charge. I’m struggling to see where people are putting a second battery.I gather The leisure battery is in the bonnet - not ideal for a lithium upgrade (living in N Scotland) the starter battery is in passenger footwell.

upgrading the leisure battery with a 300 Ah LiFePO4 (eg www.roamerbatteries.com) or liontron’s ‘Arctic’ 200 Ah sounds nice, but would I have to upgrade the starter battery to match it? (Not a huge issue if the van can access both batteries for ‘leisure’?)

i read about a guy who had a professional installation in Germany where he had his leisure battery ‘uncoupled’ from the starter battery and moved to the back cupboard. He added a new solar controller, so his factory panels charged the new battery (and added his own panels to boost it). He also put in an 1800W inverter too. Obviously he forgoes the electricwarranty, but gains so much off grid capability.

roamer battery (30kg) is about £1000 for a 300Ah battery, other brands are about £2200.

my other option is ecoflow delta is £1400 for 1260Wh at 50.4V = a paltry 25.6Ah?
Roamer is equiv to 300Ah x 12.8v = 3840Wh
(Happy to be corrected if google has failed me)

this sounds like a winner to me. I realise I’d have to manually charge the new leisure battery (which wont be so fragile as an AGM). But I guess this won’t be detrimental to the engine battery? Would 2x 100 (or 200) be a better idea?

I’d welcome any input/suggestions or ideas how this could improved.

Pretty dated thread: However interessted which path you went/what kind of solution you decided for

 

[dominichayhoe]

when off grid, without EHU or the diesel energy option, is it possible use heating and/or hot water enough for a shower using the gas and electricity?

seen a few posts last year about people talking about potential for upgraded batteries, but has anyone actually done it? voided warranty? price? lithium batteries?

saw in the fb group that europeans use this power station and I guess an inverter plugged into their EHU or plug in heaters. I won't use a diesel generator.

(more questions to come I'm sure - is it preferred that I resurrect old threads?)

I have a Jackery in mine because converting to Lithium was prone to issues.

Can you use an external battery instead of gas to heat hot water - on the 1kw setting yes - but its hugely inefficient as you are converting 12v to 240v to run the water heater.

Like most people I have installed a Gaslow system and therefore don't worry about what gas I use as its cheap and easy to refill.

My Jackery is exclusively used for my Nespresso using the 3 pin sockets in the van as you mentioned you wanted to.

I can wildcamp for days or even weeks with this setup.