Hello and any opinions on a Beach vs Caravelle+roof?

[clarinetbcn]

So two identically priced T6 vans :
- one is standard beach,
- one is converted caravelle, 204bhp, DSG, maybe 4motion, twin doors, nicer spec inside, dynamic suspension etc.

I'd like to think people would at least be tempted by the converted caravelle?

But I am a sucker for taking the difficult paths with things to get what I want!

Have a close look at the rear roof air conditioning in your Caravelle (on the continent it's a Multivan, Caravelle is the name for a much lower spec). Then take a look at the rear aircon outlets in the side roof rails of a Beach with full Climatronic. That would be difficult and expensive to duplicate, as I'm sure @Catbus can confirm. My Beach is high spec, in fact a Multivan spec used as a base for the VW factory build. I was recently offered 10k euros more than I paid for it 4 years and 70,000 km ago, by the same official Westfalia dealer that imported it from Germany for me, so there is a high cachet for OEM.

 

[da_murphster]

I've got a quote from Kernow for an oem beach/california roof with the vents moved etc. I'd be happy with what he has ended up with.

I'll ask Catbus for his experience, but my logic is basically the same as his.

My Calivelle - A Caravelle Executive/California Ocean hybrid

Transformer

vwcaliforniaclub.com

In terms of price the oem beach roof and vent work etc is not cheap - 30-50% more than a non oem roof. I'm yet to see a company do the Caravelle vents moved in such a way that does not look bodged.

My Calivelle - A Caravelle Executive/California Ocean hybrid

Transformer

vwcaliforniaclub.com

Even with the expensive oem roof you could still do a caravelle conversion for the same/less than the current Beach prices.

 

[da_murphster]

sorry the links were supposed to be this view of catbus vents:

https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/attachments/be70716a-98fb-4339-a4c3-121056f735be-jpeg.94830/

 

[Perfectos]

So two identically priced T6 vans :
- one is standard beach,
- one is converted caravelle, 204bhp, DSG, maybe 4motion, twin doors, nicer spec inside, dynamic suspension etc.

I'd like to think people would at least be tempted by the converted caravelle?

But I am a sucker for taking the difficult paths with things to get what I want!

Buy the van that makes you happy, residual value is a nice to have but if you intend to use the van, go with what you want, residual value it is some what irrelevant in the near term.

As has been discussed on many threads previously, each type of van has its own merits, no one can tell you what is right for you in the way that you will use the van and enjoy it.

I think many get lost unnecessarily so on this magic numbers game and Man maths , initial cost vs residual resale value, which they use to justify for their own sanity, the eye watering cost of a camper van,
it’s nice to have residual value (and you will in a converted Velle, I have no doubt if done well) but ultimately if you are doing it because of the residual value, choose a factory spec and be done with it,
if you chose to create a bespoke vehicle that you want , you will cherish, enjoy and use, the rest is hot air & prevarication.

The spec of a Velle and high spec Beach are very very similar, the Exc. Velle just comes with the bells and whistles without a hearty uplift in cost vs a Beach high spec, but make no mistake a high spec Beach can stand shoulder to shoulder with a Exc Velle taking the various nuances into account.

I think @Catbus approach this is a very level headed way, he appears to have done his research properly, decided to go for a factory look using factory parts & made a very bold move and took an amazing leap of faith in doing what he did in trusting his pride and joy to a third party to cut about, it wouldn’t be for everyone, which I suppose is partially why the decision would have been made in the first place. Lack of availability of the van you want.

I posted before, a very high spec Beach is a very very rare commodity,
it is a commodity that will depreciate,,as will any other vehicle, it is not a financial investment, far from it, it’s an investment in you and your life style.

who knows what will happen in the future ( look back at the last two years, or the last five ! )

vehicles like this are purely a life style choice and to some aspirational, what someone will pay for it in the future is pie in the sky. (None of us may have the money)

Carpe Diem

I think the result that Catbus has achieved is remarkable, speaks for itself & justifies the leap of faith the results are quite frankly amazing with the added benefit of some lovely additional features such as twin slider, 204 etc.

what would you pay for it if it was up for sale ?

who cares whether a future owner would pay a couple of grand more for an OEM model, Catbus has it now and for as long as he wants to enjoy, he can worry about residual value if / when he comes to dispose of it.

 

[two-saabs]

We have a T6 Beach as a family car. It is fantastic and we regularly convert it from a 7 seat MPV to/from a four/five berth campervan.

I find the 150 engine ample for our needs.

Apart from the mid range engine, ours is very high spec., with ACC, tri-zone climate control, parking heater, 2 captains chairs in second row which convert to Group 2/3 child seats, etc.

It cost £44,444 new in March 2017, so I’m confident you could find a similar spec. for well under £40,000.

As a baseline, We Buy Any Car is currently valuing Amarillo at £28,755. You should look to be paying at least that.

+1 for the 150hp, it’s a fine engine and more than enough for everything I’m throwing at it!

For context I’m going from a much more powerful SUV + high powered sports cars, and still happy

 

[da_murphster]

To confuse me further a few t6 beaches seem to be dropping their prices to under £40k which is ruining my man maths.

 

[Ch1pbutty]

To confuse me further a few t6 beaches seem to be dropping their prices to under £40k which is ruining my man maths.

Yes, but check the specs carefully. Alot will be very basic / few options.

 

[steve_b]

+1 for the 150hp, it’s a fine engine and more than enough for everything I’m throwing at it!

For context I’m going from a much more powerful SUV + high powered sports cars, and still happy

I have a 130hp t5 bnz engine on a California se so carrying all of the camper equipment weight all of the time. It does not feel underpowered. On national speed limit roads, I would rarely have to drop from 6th to 5th and on the Devon hills once in a blue moon to 4th.

Of course more power is nice but on a diesel engine not always necessary.

 

[Catbus]

Buy the van that makes you happy, residual value is a nice to have but if you intend to use the van, go with what you want, residual value it is some what irrelevant in the near term.

As has been discussed on many threads previously, each type of van has its own merits, no one can tell you what is right for you in the way that you will use the van and enjoy it.

I think many get lost unnecessarily so on this magic numbers game and Man maths , initial cost vs residual resale value, which they use to justify for their own sanity, the eye watering cost of a camper van,
it’s nice to have residual value (and you will in a converted Velle, I have no doubt if done well) but ultimately if you are doing it because of the residual value, choose a factory spec and be done with it,
if you chose to create a bespoke vehicle that you want , you will cherish, enjoy and use, the rest is hot air & prevarication.

The spec of a Velle and high spec Beach are very very similar, the Exc. Velle just comes with the bells and whistles without a hearty uplift in cost vs a Beach high spec, but make no mistake a high spec Beach can stand shoulder to shoulder with a Exc Velle taking the various nuances into account.

I think @Catbus approach this is a very level headed way, he appears to have done his research properly, decided to go for a factory look using factory parts & made a very bold move and took an amazing leap of faith in doing what he did in trusting his pride and joy to a third party to cut about, it wouldn’t be for everyone, which I suppose is partially why the decision would have been made in the first place. Lack of availability of the van you want.

I posted before, a very high spec Beach is a very very rare commodity,
it is a commodity that will depreciate,,as will any other vehicle, it is not a financial investment, far from it, it’s an investment in you and your life style.

who knows what will happen in the future ( look back at the last two years, or the last five ! )

vehicles like this are purely a life style choice and to some aspirational, what someone will pay for it in the future is pie in the sky. (None of us may have the money)

Carpe Diem

I think the result that Catbus has achieved is remarkable, speaks for itself & justifies the leap of faith the results are quite frankly amazing with the added benefit of some lovely additional features such as twin slider, 204 etc.

what would you pay for it if it was up for sale ?

who cares whether a future owner would pay a couple of grand more for an OEM model, Catbus has it now and for as long as he wants to enjoy, he can worry about residual value if / when he comes to dispose of it.

Yep, @Perfectos has hit the nail on the head, if you looking for residual investment then putting money in to a campervan of any type (or any vehicle, unless it’s a old classic on the rise) isnt a wise thing to do unless your fully committed to this lifestyle.
VW T series are cramped even in LWB form and the money people have spent can buy a awful lot of package holidays but I what feel I’ve done is “invested in memories” rather than metal.
The kids absolutely love going away camping and I’ve grown up in the culture of bmx/skating/surfing where VW camper vans just seem to be a natural extension to that lifestyle. I’ve think we’ve quadrupled the amount of holidays we’ve had in the last two years.
After running many performance cars since being a teen and recently swapping over to a VW Camper now I’ve entered my 50’s just made me realise what I had been missing all those years.
I still get the buzz from modifying a vehicle and get all the same enjoyment but at a slower pace that’s based around the family.

It’s just a shame that the pandemic caused manufacturing constraints, travel restrictions and now the chaos with lack of workers in the air travel industry has pushed demand and prices up so high for campers over the last few years.
This increase in demand has also had a negative effect with new converters cashing in on demand building many campers out of poverty spec Transporter panel vans (eg. 84 hp engine and no air-con etc) and we’re now seeing a lot now coming back up for sale once they realised the camper life isn’t for them.
I may be wrong, but I think there will be a bigger price gap to come between these poorer spec VW transporter conversions and official California models (or conversions using all factory California parts) as the market settles down.



btw: anyone is looking for a the ultimate spec Caravelle to do a California roof conversion on then this one below thats just come up for sale, is a very rare beast having nearly every single possible option selected from new - well over a £75k purchase price back in 2018 (only thing I can see missing is the internal child’s seats for the middle row as it’s missing the child head restraints).
Whoever first purchased this from VW literally went crazy on the options list and would have doubled the price of the entry level T6 Caravelle SE, hence the high premium of it now secondhand

https://www.sytner.co.uk/volkswagen-commercial/van-search/14737861-dohc-volkswagen-caravelle-2-0-tdi-bmt-204-executive-4-motion-5dr-dsg

It took me a year of waiting for the ”must have” spec I wanted to come up for sale (one or two 4motions would come up each month, but only 3 came up for sale in the year of 2020 that had the optional diff lock (which can’t be retrospectively fitted without a massive amount of work and cost to the drivetrain or wiring loom)
My own van is only missing very few extras on the monster list of possible options for Caravelles (DynaAudio, secondary cabin heater, second battery, dual tone paint, Hill decent & good night package); the good night package I have already added second hand and I’ve fitted the missing button and cable for hill decent (just needs to wire into the loom and get coded in with a vagcom) and the other missing factory options I still plan to retro fit over time; but this one has everything and by the price it seems like the VW dealer knows that with it being at the very top end of the market for the model & year.

I would imagine those looking for a fully spec’d out Beach would have just as long wait for the right vehicle to come up for sale and it current secondhand value would push it very closed to a base model Ocean.

 

[Perfectos]

Yep, @Perfectos has hit the nail on the head, if you looking for residual investment then putting money in to a campervan of any type (or any vehicle, unless it’s a old classic on the rise) isnt a wise thing to do unless your fully committed to this lifestyle.
VW T series are cramped even in LWB form and the money people have spent can buy a awful lot of package holidays but I what feel I’ve done is “invested in memories” rather than metal.
The kids absolutely love going away camping and I’ve grown up in the culture of bmx/skating/surfing where VW camper vans just seem to be a natural extension to that lifestyle. I’ve think we’ve quadrupled the amount of holidays we’ve had in the last two years.
After running many performance cars since being a teen and recently swapping over to a VW Camper now I’ve entered my 50’s just made me realise what I had been missing all those years.
I still get the buzz from modifying a vehicle and get all the same enjoyment but at a slower pace that’s based around the family.

It’s just a shame that the pandemic caused manufacturing constraints, travel restrictions and now the chaos with lack of workers in the air travel industry has pushed demand and prices up so high for campers over the last few years.
This increase in demand has also had a negative effect with new converters cashing in on demand building many campers out of poverty spec Transporter panel vans (eg. 84 hp engine and no air-con etc) and we’re now seeing a lot now coming back up for sale once they realised the camper life isn’t for them.
I may be wrong, but I think there will be a bigger price gap to come between these poorer spec VW transporter conversions and official California models (or conversions using all factory California parts) as the market settles down.



btw: anyone is looking for a the ultimate spec Caravelle to do a California roof conversion on then this one below thats just come up for sale, is a very rare beast having nearly every single possible option selected from new - well over a £75k purchase price back in 2018 (only thing I can see missing is the internal child’s seats for the middle row as it’s missing the child head restraints).
Whoever first purchased this from VW literally went crazy on the options list and would have doubled the price of the entry level T6 Caravelle SE, hence the high premium of it now secondhand

https://www.sytner.co.uk/volkswagen-commercial/van-search/14737861-dohc-volkswagen-caravelle-2-0-tdi-bmt-204-executive-4-motion-5dr-dsg

It took me a year of waiting for the ”must have” spec I wanted to come up for sale (one or two 4motions would come up each month, but only 3 came up for sale in the year of 2020 that had the optional diff lock (which can’t be retrospectively fitted without a massive amount of work and cost to the drivetrain or wiring loom)
My own van is only missing very few extras on the monster list of possible options for Caravelles (DynaAudio, secondary cabin heater, second battery, dual tone paint, Hill decent & good night package); the good night package I have already added second hand and I’ve fitted the missing button and cable for hill decent (just needs to wire into the loom and get coded in with a vagcom) and the other missing factory options I still plan to retro fit over time; but this one has everything and by the price it seems like the VW dealer knows that with it being at the very top end of the market for the model & year.

I would imagine those looking for a fully spec’d out Beach would have just as long wait for the right vehicle to come up for sale and it current secondhand value would push it very closed to a base model Ocean.

Great write up,

 

[da_murphster]

I ain’t paying £56k for a t6!

I think I’m going to hang out for a 4motion 204 with a few bells and whistles. Dynamic suspension and acc high on the list.

Diff lock would be nice but I can’t see me ever using it.

Cheers for all the posts on this all

 

[Catbus]

I think there would be a lot of wiggle room in the price, as this van was put up for sale in May by the original owner before this VW dealer bought it and the price certainly didn’t start with a number 5 then
(I’ve never tuned off my autotrader saved search for 4motion Caravelles, so it emails me automatically when ever one comes to market)

 

[da_murphster]

I think there would be a lot of wiggle room in the price, as this van was put up for sale in May by the original owner before this VW dealer bought it and the price certainly didn’t start with a number 5 then
(I’ve never tuned off my autotrader saved search for 4motion Caravelles, so it emails me automatically when ever one comes to market)

My man maths relies on my caravelle conversion plan being the same price (ish) as what I could get a beach for.

I’m looking at sort of £40k all in - there are T6 4 motion dsg popping up at around that price, I’m content to wait a bit now as I’ve missed summer already.

 

[Catbus]

My man maths relies on my caravelle conversion plan being the same price (ish) as what I could get a beach for.

I’m looking at sort of £40k all in - there are T6 4 motion dsg popping up at around that price, I’m content to wait a bit now as I’ve missed summer already.

Yeah been there with man the maths and with a set budget and it went all out the window.
I was originally had a maximum budget to buy the van, get a poptop conversion, electrics, wheels, bike rack & awning etc..
I blew all that budget on the van alone even before changing my mind of the poptop I had planned and going for a California roof conversion.
Looking back I think I would of regretted going for a cheaper poptop conversion and following my head rather than heart.
As such, it’s going to take a lot longer getting the van where I will consider it finished but I’m in no rush to get there.

 

[soulstyledevon]

O/P did you ever make a decision on this…?
Yesterday I had a look at a fully loaded 2019 Caravelle Executive.
It was really nice, full leather, every option I would want and flexible seating. It drives a lot nicer than a Beach too. Going back to a Beach is tempting, but a nice Velle is quite plush.

The big mistake I made yesterday was taking the wife to the Bimmer garage. She wants the 3 series, I want the van…

 

[da_murphster]

O/P did you ever make a decision on this…?
Yesterday I had a look at a fully loaded 2019 Caravelle Executive.
It was really nice, full leather, every option I would want and flexible seating. It drives a lot nicer than a Beach too. Going back to a Beach is tempting, but a nice Velle is quite plush.

The big mistake I made yesterday was taking the wife to the Bimmer garage. She wants the 3 series, I want the van…

Nope, still dithering!

Money no object I’d buy a caravelle and convert. You can get a 204bhp 4Motion velle for £40kish and get a roof and leisure battery and heater for about an additional £10k. Might need some diy for that price.

I do still like the rear camp chair storage and the side table storage on the beach - these are expensive to add and you would have problems with getting the trim to match, maybe another £2k?

It all soon adds up.

I am actually off to view a t6 beach but I know I am compromising the plushness and 204bhp and 4Motion, but it will be cheaper and a lot easier.

 

[da_murphster]

btw you could make a beach drive like a velle with £1k of suspension upgrades.

 

[soulstyledevon]

btw you could make a beach drive like a velle with £1k of suspension upgrades.

Hmm,
I don’t know about that. The Velle feels a lot more luxurious, quieter inside. More car like than a Beach…
It’s quite a nice thing really.

 

[da_murphster]

Hmm,
I don’t know about that. The Velle feels a lot more luxurious, quieter inside. More car like than a Beach…
It’s quite a nice thing really.

Why do you think that is?

I have a T5.1 caravelle at the moment - there really isnt anything much in terms of sound deadening etc. If I was keeping it I would have been looking at adding more sound deadening as its still a noisy place to be.

Potentially the carpets absorb some sound but you can always add rugs to a Beach.

I assumed you meant you had tested a velle with the adaptive suspension - I would like that, but would be happy with koni active and decent H&R ARB from CRS

 

[Azteccamper]

Interesting if you’re not afraid of mileage.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

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[da_murphster]

Interesting if you’re not afraid of mileage.

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

I like those but I'm holding out for a 4motion after getting stuck in a field this year!

 

[soulstyledevon]

Why do you think that is?

I have a T5.1 caravelle at the moment - there really isnt anything much in terms of sound deadening etc. If I was keeping it I would have been looking at adding more sound deadening as its still a noisy place to be.

Potentially the carpets absorb some sound but you can always add rugs to a Beach.

I assumed you meant you had tested a velle with the adaptive suspension - I would like that, but would be happy with koni active and decent H&R ARB from CRS

Lack of awning, solid roof and the carpet definitely give a quieter more comfortable ride.
Find one with 4motion and it makes you wonder why more weren’t sold…