International women’s day, good idea or not?

[AlisonF]

International Women’s Day... what to think?
I am totally and utterly opposed to positive discrimination. I’ve seen women promoted over others before their merit, causing friction with the guys they were promoted over. Then not being experienced enough to do the job, so letting down the rest of us working so hard.
Yes we need more women in senior positions. Without a shadow of a doubt they bring diversity. And with it, very often a determination brought by having to overcome obstacles along the way.
I had many arguments in a large international company around diversity. The questionnaires only being sent to female expats. Hello, do you not think the male colleagues are married to a female they met at Uni and had given up her career to follow him? I insisted the questionnaires were sent to all staff, expat and local, male and female. I also asked for data around women progressing through the ranks. If you only have 25 out of 150 when I studied in late 80’s. Naturally you would expect a similar proportion when they are 50. But some stopped when they had children and others took time out. So you are comparing apples and pears.
Myself, I was told whilst seeking to be a sponsored student at British Steel that they were rejecting me (after interview) because the foreman refused to work with women. 1985.
In 1998 I was followed home by a colleague (whom I only let in because my boss was there). After my boss left he went on to assault me and admitted it. The company had no harassment policy (legally required in that country for a company with 40+ staff. They had 4000). Nothing was done.
In 2008/9 my job was stolen by a guy who did not like working with women. The company admitted they broke the law. Nothing was done.
My mother studied physics at Oxford in 1956. She is a hero. I can only hope I have done her proud. Love you mum (even if you are not on fb). You were and still are a role model to many.
So much more can and needs to be done to capitalise on the extremely talented women on this planet.
So a very very long intro... but I don’t want to see an International Women’s day without an International Men’s day. Otherwise ‘equality’ is ‘inequality’.
What I want to see is more education from a young age that shows boys and girls the joy that science and engineering can bring, and also recognise the management skills many women have inherently.
Sorry if I’ve rambled too long. And totally accept others may disagree.
Hats off to all women around the world.

 

[kurienp]

but I don’t want to see an International Women’s day without an International Men’s day. Otherwise ‘equality’ is ‘inequality’.

Alison, agree, the key in all things is looking at the "other" side as well. Otherwise, as you say, equality is inequality and positive discrimination is real.

What I want to see is more education from a young age that shows boys and girls ...

... about equality. Science and Engineering - that will depend on their areas of interest. Teach them to treat everyone with respect and they will prosper in all that they do.

One lady who I hold in very high regard (among many others) is Michelle Mouton. Way way ahead of her times and showed the male dominated driving world what a lady could do. Of course, there are many many examples ...

and absolutely agree - hats off to all people around the world - women and men who respect each other keep the world moving!

 

[OGII]

Brave viewpoint. Many will argue that it is mens' day every day, so no need to offer a one off celebration to men.

I agree with your general sentiments though, equality should just mean that. Same rules for all, same treatment for all.

Sadly that isn't the case and never will be. Genderwise there are fantastic differences between the sexes, we aren't "equal" in that we are very different, some more so than others. We don't celebrate those differences.

In wider equality terms historic reasons mean some have more money, education, options than other groups. Some groups practice beliefs that still progogate values than are outdated to most of us. Some segments of society will always look after their own or ignore the rules regarding equality. One bug bear is that Black history month, an American product, should really be Diversity month. There's a good reason that British version of history records things differently to othes, take the French and Napoleon as an example.

I do think we have reached the point where the PC brigade mean that what many may feel to be a valid opinion cannot be aired lest it upsets some lobby or another. Very hard to voice even the most sensible of views these days. Without wishing the Brxxxt word on this thread things may have been different if the silent majority hadn't been silenced by the pc crowd for years, stifling debate.

But happy International Womens' day to all.

Turns out tomorrow is national barbie day ( somewhat ironic), national meatball day and national get over it day. Who knew?

 

[AlisonF]

Alison, agree, the key in all things is looking at the "other" side as well. Otherwise, as you say, equality is inequality and positive discrimination is real.



... about equality. Science and Engineering - that will depend on their areas of interest. Teach them to treat everyone with respect and they will prosper in all that they do.

One lady who I hold in very high regard (among many others) is Michelle Mouton. Way way ahead of her times and showed the male dominated driving world what a lady could do. Of course, there are many many examples ...

and absolutely agree - hats off to all people around the world - women and men who respect each other keep the world moving!

That is great. And I agree.
But at the same time it feels to me we are only recognising women who have been extremely successful in their career - reaching top management or board level.
The fact someone reported my post as inappropriate where we discuss so many things that are non Cali related makes me feel sad.
Recently we have had many more new female members. Bringing with them knowledge and experience. When I first joined there was @GrannyJen and a handful of others. And many of the comments were not on the technical side, but widely appreciated.
So, I apologise to those that feel my original post was inappropriate. My opinion is that until we all make a more concerted effort jointly, then discrimination (sex, religion, colour) will continue.

 

[AlisonF]

Brave viewpoint. Many will argue that it is mens' day every day, so no need to offer a one off celebration to men.

I agree with your general sentiments though, equality should just mean that. Same rules for all, same treatment for all.

Sadly that isn't the case and never will be. Genderwise there are fantastic differences between the sexes, we aren't "equal" in that we are very different, some more so than others. We don't celebrate those differences.

In wider equality terms historic reasons mean some have more money, education, options than other groups. Some groups practice beliefs that still progogate values than are outdated to most of us. Some segments of society will always look after their own or ignore the rules regarding equality. One bug bear is that Black history month, an American product, should really be Diversity month. There's a good reason that British version of history records things differently to othes, take the French and Napoleon as an example.

I do think we have reached the point where the PC brigade mean that what many may feel to be a valid opinion cannot be aired lest it upsets some lobby or another. Very hard to voice even the most sensible of views these days. Without wishing the Brxxxt word on this thread things may have been different if the silent majority hadn't been silenced by the pc crowd for years, stifling debate.

But happy International Womens' day to all.

Turns out tomorrow is national barbie day ( somewhat ironic), national meatball day and national get over it day. Who knew?

Equality should mean equality for all - bang on.
I can imagine some glancing through this thinking I’m an ardent feminist... when I have made speeches to the opposite...

 

[subthree]

I work for a large American engineering consultant of circa 90,000 people spread across the globe. Today there were lots of internal communications about International Women's Day.

Last Thursday was UNESCO World Engineering Day, not a word was said. Oh, the irony.

World Engineering Day 2025

Welcome World Engineering Day 2025, where you'll find a wealth of information, resources, and inspiration.

worldengineeringday.net

 

[Dr-Snickers]

International Women’s Day... what to think?
I am totally and utterly opposed to positive discrimination. I’ve seen women promoted over others before their merit, causing friction with the guys they were promoted over. Then not being experienced enough to do the job, so letting down the rest of us working so hard.
Yes we need more women in senior positions. Without a shadow of a doubt they bring diversity. And with it, very often a determination brought by having to overcome obstacles along the way.
I had many arguments in a large international company around diversity. The questionnaires only being sent to female expats. Hello, do you not think the male colleagues are married to a female they met at Uni and had given up her career to follow him? I insisted the questionnaires were sent to all staff, expat and local, male and female. I also asked for data around women progressing through the ranks. If you only have 25 out of 150 when I studied in late 80’s. Naturally you would expect a similar proportion when they are 50. But some stopped when they had children and others took time out. So you are comparing apples and pears.
Myself, I was told whilst seeking to be a sponsored student at British Steel that they were rejecting me (after interview) because the foreman refused to work with women. 1985.
In 1998 I was followed home by a colleague (whom I only let in because my boss was there). After my boss left he went on to assault me and admitted it. The company had no harassment policy (legally required in that country for a company with 40+ staff. They had 4000). Nothing was done.
In 2008/9 my job was stolen by a guy who did not like working with women. The company admitted they broke the law. Nothing was done.
My mother studied physics at Oxford in 1956. She is a hero. I can only hope I have done her proud. Love you mum (even if you are not on fb). You were and still are a role model to many.
So much more can and needs to be done to capitalise on the extremely talented women on this planet.
So a very very long intro... but I don’t want to see an International Women’s day without an International Men’s day. Otherwise ‘equality’ is ‘inequality’.
What I want to see is more education from a young age that shows boys and girls the joy that science and engineering can bring, and also recognise the management skills many women have inherently.
Sorry if I’ve rambled too long. And totally accept others may disagree.
Hats off to all women around the world.

I couldn't agree more Alison.

What is most important about your post is that despite the fact you have clearly been on the receiving end of some appalling examples of sexism, you don't want special favours because you are female, you simply want to be treated as an equal.

 

[AlisonF]

I work for a large American engineering consultant of circa 90,000 people spread across the globe. Today there were lots of internal communications about International Women's Day.

Last Thursday was UNESCO World Engineering Day, not a word was said. Oh, the irony.

World Engineering Day 2025

Welcome World Engineering Day 2025, where you'll find a wealth of information, resources, and inspiration.

worldengineeringday.net

Exactly. And as a female engineer it worries me. There seems to be an imbalance. But again. My view. Not trying to be political.
My own view is we can only change the imbalance by educating children as early as we can.

 

[subthree]

What was fantastic to watch was the Mars rover landing a couple of weeks ago. My youngest is a 7 year old girl. She sat there for nearly 2 hours transfixed. I kept saying to her "look how many girls there are at Mission Control". She knows already not to be limited in what she thinks she could do.

 

[AlisonF]

I couldn't agree more Alison.

What is most important about your post is that despite the fact you have clearly been on the receiving end of some appalling examples of sexism, you don't want special favours because you are female, you simply want to be treated as an equal.

Exactly. And I will strive to achieve that for as long as I can. Thank you for recognising that.

 

[Lightning]

I’m not entirely sure how all this works, but limiting the discussion to male and female or men and women has been superseded by events.

68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression

Language and labels are important parts of understanding your gender — as well as knowing how to affirm and support that of other folks! We break it down.

www.healthline.com

 

[subthree]

This is the kind of person i want my daughter to be inspired by, technically strong and worked hard.

The face of the Perseverance landing was an Indian American woman | CNN

You might have seen her in the front row of the control room, bindi on her forehead, providing constant updates as mission commentator for the historic landing on Mars. Before that exciting moment, Swati Mohan had been working for years to make it all happen.

www.cnn.com

 

[AlisonF]

I’m not entirely sure how all this works, but limiting the discussion to male and female or men and women has been superseded by events.

68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression

Language and labels are important parts of understanding your gender — as well as knowing how to affirm and support that of other folks! We break it down.

www.healthline.com

Can’t get to the article without accepting a whole load of cookies...

 

[AlisonF]

This is the kind of person i want my daughter to be inspired by, technically strong and worked hard.

The face of the Perseverance landing was an Indian American woman | CNN

You might have seen her in the front row of the control room, bindi on her forehead, providing constant updates as mission commentator for the historic landing on Mars. Before that exciting moment, Swati Mohan had been working for years to make it all happen.

www.cnn.com

But also, why do female engineers (scientists / medical professionals / etc) have to be the top bosses / hero’s before anyone takes notice?
Edit - what I mean is almost the opposite. Why does it take so much attention when women reach those levels.

 

[Lightning]

But also, why do female engineers (scientists / medical professionals / etc) have to be the top bosses / hero’s before anyone takes notice?

I’ve worked in engineering for a few decades and latterly the women were treated completely equally to the men, sometimes more favourably because there were less of them and equality was actively promoted, If they were talented they were recognised and rewarded for it. Thus wasn’t always the case, but times have changed for the better.

 

[AlisonF]

I’ve worked in engineering for a few decades and latterly the women were treated completely equally to the men, sometimes more favourably because there were less of them and equality was actively promoted, If they were talented they were recognised and rewarded for it. Thus wasn’t always the case, but times have changed for the better.

That is good to hear.
Let’s hope more companies push for the right reasons and not to tick boxes which helps no-one.

 

[OGII]

I’m not entirely sure how all this works, but limiting the discussion to male and female or men and women has been superseded by events.

68 Terms That Describe Gender Identity and Expression

Language and labels are important parts of understanding your gender — as well as knowing how to affirm and support that of other folks! We break it down.

www.healthline.com

64 terms and not one of them was FFS.

Time to unlabel everyone, how about everyone just identify as "me". Otherwise we will end up with 8billion labels (or whatever the world's population is today)

 

[Dr-Snickers]

64 terms and not one of them was FFS.

Time to unlabel everyone, how about everyone just identify as "me". Otherwise we will end up with 8billion labels (or whatever the world's population is today)

Probably off topic but following on from the above:

I won’t ever understand all the different terms people have come up with to label themselves.
What I do know is that I genuinely don’t mind what term someone else wants to use for themselves, as long as no one tries to tell me what my ‘term’ can or cannot be.

 

[Bellcrew]

Probably off topic but following on from the above:

I won’t ever understand all the different terms people have come up with to label themselves.
What I do know is that I genuinely don’t mind what term someone else wants to use for themselves, as long as no one tries to tell me what my ‘term’ can or cannot be.

We are undergoing a vast societal experiment in gender roles and identities, perhaps things will work out for the best and/or our civilization will destroy itself, only time will tell.

 

[Wildcamper]

I am not a fan of any International xyz Day. Everyone should respect everyone. As a research chemist I have worked with and for both sexes and benefited from the experience. More women are needed in science and engineering, not because of gender, but because it adds to diversity and that benefits creativity. I love the story of the scientific group at Oxford University behind the AZ vaccine development. I really hope they become role models for girls wanting/thinking of taking up science and engineering.

 

[Velma's Dad]

I have some sympathy with some of these arguments that, while gender equalities still really exist here in the UK, a general awareness-raising 'day' might not what's most needed. Also, my view is that we should be aiming for a society in which someone's gender (including non-binary gender identities) is an irrelevance to their rights and opportunities throughout life and we'll no longer find the need to ask someone's 'sex' when we ask them to fill in a form.

But the same isn't true in many other parts of the world where even basic rights of women and girls are systematically denied as a manifestation of power exercised ultimately by men. Sometimes that's a conscious abuse but often it's normalised by being deeply rooted in culture and accepted even by many women themselves (FGM is a classic example). Raising awareness that it's not 'normal' to disadvantage women by reason of their gender is an important function of International Women's Day and for that reason I personally applaud it.

 

[Mickyb123]

What’s the date of international men’s day?

 

[Ch1pbutty]

What’s the date of international men’s day?

19 November

 

[Mickyb123]

Ta, looking forward to the discussions then.
I could have looked it up on google !

 

[GrannyJen]

Any discrimination against any sector of the population is bullying.

WE all come into this world innocent, all with the same colour of blood and brain as each other and all with an equal right to expect to be given the same opportunities in life regardless of gender, colour of skin, sexual orientation or physical disability.

To discriminate simply because you can, you can because your biology makes you stronger, your guns make you more powerful, your mob culture makes you overwhelming, is wrong.

@Velma's Dad hit it on the head. In a country that strives to deliver equality it is easy to forget that there are countries that will deprive whole sectors simply because they can. We export billions of pounds of arms to some of the most vile and repressive regimes against women in the world: We support regimes that practice the barbarity of FGM and where a man can mutilate a woman simply because it is recognised that she is property with no rights of her own.

Even in this wonderfully liberated country of ours, and I do not say that sarcastically because in comparison we are wonderfully liberated, my own family has experienced gender (and colour) discrimination against one of us: Another the victim of a very serious sexual assault that came close to murder: Another bigotry and assault simply because of gender orientation. It was only ten years ago that I was in court as a prosecution witness against someone who felt it was ok to physically threaten me whilst waving his willy at me, probably not something he would do against someone who matched him in terms of strength and size.

Why we have international women's day. To remind ourselves of the struggles that have been overcome, and the struggles that have yet to be overcome, simply to have a right of equal opportunity.

Let us not also forget the 118 names that Jess Phillips read out in Parliament, the names of the 118 women murdered in Britain in the year just gone because someone felt they could, simply because they had a physical superiority.