International women’s day, good idea or not?

[Dr-Snickers]

Brian Paddick.

A brave man.

As you say, the police cannot be everywhere.

Anyone who for whatever reason, gender, sexual orientation, religion etc, are vulnerable must take care of themselves and try not to be where it is unsafe. I deliberately ignored racial, for anyone of colour there is no alternative, you cannot hide colour like you can religion or sexual orientation.

There are streets that I would not walk down, bars and clubs that I would not step into, company I would avoid, but it happens. I know the streets that Sarah walked down, I was brought up in Brixton, the time was quite reasonable, Poynders road would have been busy. Sadly as you say, always a tiny minority.

Vile creatures like Levi Bellfield can seemingly snatch people off the streets in busy places in broad daylight and not be noticed, there is no way you can police against that happening.

I don't think this sad event has evidenced the streets being less safe or policing less effective, just sadly there will always be those that for the poor victim there is no protection against and, unfortunately, those vulnerable today feel more vulnerable.

Agree @GrannyJen. I wish I didn’t feel it necessary to avoid certain places/people etc but I think you make the point very well that no society could ever eradicate these kind of predators. The risk is thankfully very small but there could never be zero risk.

Where we can improve things in this country, aside from educating people on what constitutes both harassment and consent, is to ensure everyone can have confidence in the criminal justice system. No country can stop horrible things happening to people but a society where justice is seen to be upheld can reduce the further trauma that happens to victims, their families and the wider public when crimes go unpunished.

 

[Mickyb123]

Just to put some meat n the bones of what happened during this “protest“ 2 out of 4 arrests were for public disorder offences.
The women in question, were removing floral tributes that had been lane by the public in tribute and stamping on the flowers directly in front of offices, obviously trying to incite a reaction from the police!

So in the situation was this an acceptable behaviour? Funny that the press failed to report that side f the story.

 

[LemonDrop]

Just to put some meat n the bones of what happened during this “protest“ 2 out of 4 arrests were for public disorder offences.
The women in question, were removing floral tributes that had been lane by the public in tribute and stamping on the flowers directly in front of offices, obviously trying to incite a reaction from the police!

So in the situation was this an acceptable behaviour? Funny that the press failed to report that side f the story.

It is unfortunate that there are idiots (my words) who will hijack any event like this. It almost always happens and if what you say is true, no this is not acceptable behaviour, absolutely not. But please remember this will be a tiny minority.

You've got to look at the wider issue here as it is so emotive. I still believe that because of the strength of feeling over this horrific murder and the details surrounding it that the police should have been very much hands off on this occasion.

 

[Amarillo]

Just to put some meat n the bones of what happened during this “protest“ 2 out of 4 arrests were for public disorder offences.
The women in question, were removing floral tributes that had been lane by the public in tribute and stamping on the flowers directly in front of offices, obviously trying to incite a reaction from the police!

So in the situation was this an acceptable behaviour? Funny that the press failed to report that side f the story.

While some recollections may vary, that sort of alleged behaviour is unacceptable. What I would question is whether that would have occurred had there been 50 or so stewards at a vigil held with the support of organisers and the police.

There is absolutely no reason for the police, especially an all women police contingent, not to hold candles aloft with mourners.

 

[Velma's Dad]

There is absolutely no reason for the police, especially an all women police contingent, not to hold candles aloft with mourners.

Even that is tricky. If police show symbolic allegiance with a crowd at an event that has any kind of political dimension, they run into more problems next time somewhere else. Eg at the BLM demos last year, should police have 'taken the knee' with the crowd? I personally think not. They are there to police the event, not to become part of it. Even though on Saturday it seems they did, nonetheless.

 

[LemonDrop]

Even that is tricky. If police show symbolic allegiance with a crowd at an event that has any kind of political dimension, they run into more problems next time somewhere else. Eg at the BLM demos last year, should police have 'taken the knee' with the crowd? I personally think not. They are there to police the event, not to become part of it. Even though on Saturday it seems they did, nonetheless.

Some police did take a knee

 

[T6 CFO]

Some police did take a knee

View attachment 75159

What individual officers did shows they had a rapport with members of the crowd, which is good. Totally different to a policy decision.
I agree with @Velma’s Dad


Mike

 

[Amarillo]

Even that is tricky. If police show symbolic allegiance with a crowd at an event that has any kind of political dimension, they run into more problems next time somewhere else. Eg at the BLM demos last year, should police have 'taken the knee' with the crowd? I personally think not. They are there to police the event, not to become part of it. Even though on Saturday it seems they did, nonetheless.

I don’t see why a vigil about male on female violence should be politicised.

 

[Mickyb123]

I think the answer to that should be directed about the group who organised the demonstration! The vigil was cancelled. But a group of demonstrators decided to politicise it, that was not the police choice.

 

[Amarillo]

I think the answer to that should be directed about the group who organised the demonstration! The vigil was cancelled. But a group of demonstrators decided to politicise it, that was not the police choice.

The vigil wasn’t cancelled: it went ahead. The police cancelled the organisation of the vigil. That was the choice of the police.

 

[flying banana]

International women's day is a bad idea. You cant have everyone not ironing anything for a full day. Ridiculous.

 

[LemonDrop]

International women's day is a bad idea. You cant have everyone not ironing anything for a full day. Ridiculous.

I better get my coat because I only iron for weddings and funerals and that's only if things look REALLY creased...

 

[GrannyJen]

International women's day is a bad idea. You cant have everyone not ironing anything for a full day. Ridiculous.

The only iron I used was a 9 iron whilst he stayed at home and cooked the tea

 

[Velma's Dad]

I don’t see why a vigil about male on female violence should be politicised.

I agree. However pretty much all prominent crimes are likely to end up with a political dimension, because policing and criminal justice are functions of the state. You only have to look at the amount of media air time and column inches given to politicians and political commentators since the tragic death of Sarah Everard.

 

[Mickyb123]

amarillo, check the facts, the organisers of the vigil under advice from the police actually cancelled “reclaim the streets” the organisers of the vigil were informed that under current legislation it was illegal and therefore a banned gathering, if it went ahead under there name they were therefore liable.
The group that organised the “demonstration“ was a separate feminist direct action group. The hint in the name, it was a demonstration, no longer a vigil.

 

[Dr-Snickers]

amarillo, check the facts, the organisers of the vigil under advice from the police actually cancelled “reclaim the streets” the organisers of the vigil were informed that under current legislation it was illegal and therefore a banned gathering, if it went ahead under there name they were therefore liable.
The group that organised the “demonstration“ was a separate feminist direct action group. The hint in the name, it was a demonstration, no longer a vigil.

That was certainly my understanding of what happened.

Sobering to read today that Sarah's friends decided against attending on Saturday. They feared 'her tragic death had been hijacked' by people 'blaming men/police for the actions of one individual'. They feel she would would think it was wrong to blame other people for the actions of one psychopath'.

 

[Amarillo]

amarillo, check the facts, the organisers of the vigil under advice from the police actually cancelled “reclaim the streets” the organisers of the vigil were informed that under current legislation it was illegal and therefore a banned gathering, if it went ahead under there name they were therefore liable.
The group that organised the “demonstration“ was a separate feminist direct action group. The hint in the name, it was a demonstration, no longer a vigil.

Balderdash (though not complete balderdash)!

The organised event was cancelled because of a “lack of constructive engagement from the Metropolitan police”.

“Reclaim These Streets” joined forces with “Feminists of London” to host a virtual event.

Some people went to the vigil in person regardless. That alone would not be an unlawful act - people are allowed to leave there home with “reasonable excuse”.

Instead of keeping a reasonable distance, or even holding a light in solidarity with the mourners, the police were ordered to break up the vigil- understandably some of the mourners reacted badly at being told to go home.

On this occasion, the police failed to see the bigger picture. They got it wrong.

 

[AlisonF]

Tragic as her death was. This post was about International Women’s Day.
We seem to have digressed...

 

[Dr-Snickers]

Tragic as her death was. This post was about International Women’s Day.
We seem to have digressed...

 

[Velma's Dad]

Tragic as her death was. This post was about International Women’s Day.
We seem to have digressed...

Yes but we've seen that the death of Sarah Everard just before the IWD event and the arrest of a man now charged with her murder, the day after IWD, has triggered a huge debate here in the UK about violence against women. Policing, in a wide context, is inevitably part of that debate. The overarching theme of IWD is about achieving equality of women with men and a crucial part of that equality is held to be the protection of women from violence and fear of violence.

 

[CALI FATE]

Some police did take a knee

View attachment 75159

outrageous

 

[Mickyb123]

Amerillo.
what’s your explanation for the graffiti APAB sprayed on the side of police vehicles? Or did that not happen either? Talk to folk that were there from both sides, don’t just believe the press.

The police, were actually on the perimeter until persons started making speeches on the bandstand, actually promoting another demo. This was far from a vigil for the poor woman

 

[Amarillo]

Amerillo.
what’s your explanation for the graffiti APAB sprayed on the side of police vehicles? Or did that not happen either? Talk to folk that were there from both sides, don’t just believe the press.

The police, were actually on the perimeter until persons started making speeches on the bandstand, actually promoting another demo. This was far from a vigil for the poor woman

I know nothing about the graffiti.

I do know that there was a lot of anger at the police’s attitude towards the proposed organised vigil. I also believe that circumstances would have been very different had the police chosen to support the vigil instead of disengage.

In this instance the police made the wrong call.

 

[Mickyb123]

But you know about the graffiti now.
This was not a vigil, it was a demonstration, the headlines were created by direct action goading the police. However the actions of the demonstrators don’t make good headlines, police were just doing there job, not everything is as you see on the TV and in the papers!
The police could not support any vigil it’s illegal under current law!

 

[LemonDrop]

Amerillo.
what’s your explanation for the graffiti APAB sprayed on the side of police vehicles? Or did that not happen either? Talk to folk that were there from both sides, don’t just believe the press.

The police, were actually on the perimeter until persons started making speeches on the bandstand, actually promoting another demo. This was far from a vigil for the poor woman

You seem to know a lot about it. Were you there?