International women’s day, good idea or not?

[Amarillo]

But you know about the graffiti now.
This was not a vigil, it was a demonstration, the headlines were created by direct action goading the police. However the actions of the demonstrators don’t make good headlines, police were just doing there job, not everything is as you see on the TV and in the papers!
The police could not support any vigil it’s illegal under current law!

A social media report of graffiti is no more than a social media report of graffiti. It doesn’t mean that graffiti didn’t occur, and I have little doubt that there is truth in the report. But it is not possible for me to comment on it.

If there were people in attendance at the vigil to demonstrate, what was the purpose of their demonstration?

My best guess is they were demonstrating against the police’s refusal to work with the organisers of the proposed vigil. If I am right I give my tacit support to those peacefully demonstrating. However, I will add that I could not support any assault (from demonstrator, vigilist or police) or any criminal damage.

The police misjudged this.

 

[Velma's Dad]

But you know about the graffiti now.
This was not a vigil, it was a demonstration, the headlines were created by direct action goading the police. However the actions of the demonstrators don’t make good headlines, police were just doing there job, not everything is as you see on the TV and in the papers!
The police could not support any vigil it’s illegal under current law!

The trouble with gatherings is that they can start with one group of people and one purpose, and end up attracting others with different intentions. The police will know that well and also know that the shift in the character of a crowd often happens around nightfall, when the first group (peaceful, maybe) thins out and the tenor of the event shifts, sometimes quite suddenly.

There's no single source of truth about a crowd, it's a collection of individuals behaving in different ways and all observers' viewpoints on it will differ including those of the people within the crowd. Attempts to define it, eg as a demonstration, silent protest, vigil, march or whatever are quite often pretty futile.

As far as legality is concerned, it appears that the blanket application of the coronavirus restrictions to any vigil or demonstration is actually questionable and it has been credibly suggested that it could be challenged by common law rights and also under the Article 11 of the Human Rights Act. It's not been tested in court in that regard, as far as I know.

 

[LemonDrop]

Spot on @Velma's Dad.

So - is International Womens' Day a good idea or not

No don't answer that...

 

[Amarillo]

A social media report of graffiti is no more than a social media report of graffiti. It doesn’t mean that graffiti didn’t occur, and I have little doubt that there is truth in the report. But it is not possible for me to comment on it.

If there were people in attendance at the vigil to demonstrate, what was the purpose of their demonstration?

My best guess is they were demonstrating against the police’s refusal to work with the organisers of the proposed vigil. If I am right I give my tacit support to those peacefully demonstrating. However, I will add that I could not support any assault (from demonstrator, vigilist or police) or any criminal damage.

The police misjudged this.

Maybe I was wrong, and it was not the police who are to blame.

Priti Patel wanted police to stop people gathering at Sarah Everard vigil | UK news | The Guardian

Exclusive: some police chiefs feel ‘hung out to dry’ as memo reveals home secretary’s enforcement call

amp.theguardian.com

 

[T6 CFO]

On the face of it, and I’m not surprised, she is guilty of throwing her Chief Constable under a bus. She will hopefully be gone in the next major reshuffle.
Recent Home Secretary’s with the exception of Theresa May don’t have a long shelf life and this one for a number of reasons is long past hers.

That does not though make the decision not to have the vigil/demonstration wrong.


Mike

 

[LemonDrop]

I totally agree that the protesters - who basically hijacked the vigil (in the sense of individuals going to pay their respects) - were out of order for inflammatory speeches, goading police, graffiti-ing, throwing stuff (so I've read) etc. Plus I can see why a lot of people are against ANY group event like this. After-all, only 30 people are allowed to attend a funeral so why should something like this be allowed?

But I guess the reason I personally feel like a peaceful vigil should have been allowed in the first place is because, when this horrible murder happened and it came out about him being a police offer, the flashing a few days previous etc.it was clear that this really hit a nerve. I think a lot of females got pretty freaked out and thought "that could so easily have been me". I'm not sure exactly why, because it's not the first time a madman has done something like this and it's not as if he would be "off the streets" if action had been taken about the flashing. Maybe it's something to do with lockdown, I really have no idea, but it definitely hit a nerve. I think that by allowing people to express their sorrow would have be an outlet for that strength of feeling and it might have been a way to de-escalate, whereas by banning it and then being what appears to have been heavy handed, it has escalated the situation.

Anyway, that is just my thoughts on it, maybe it would have made no difference and would have ended up as it did regardless.

 

[GrannyJen]

It hit a massive nerve with me because of what happened to my sister.

I would not have wanted to attend a vigil as proposed though, for two reasons: First I simply do not want to be that close to a large group of people with the virus still around, but secondly, sadly, I know that no matter what the cause, no matter how honourable, decent and compassionate the motives, it will always attract those who would want to pursue their own agenda and I would really not want to be feeling grief, compassion, empathy for those suffering from such a vile act and having to listen to others mouth off about whatever personal chip on their shoulder that they feel the need to be loud, vocal and offensive about.

and I still feel intentional women's day is a good idea. Wherever there exists in the world a persecuted sector of society then it is right to stand up and show the world that a country that to a large extent embraces the values of equal opportunity, personal freedom and liberty is in support of those who are oppressed for simply being the way they were born.

 

[Amarillo]

Compairing it to Greenham Common is quite interesting, and making it a gender is, the reporting on Greenham Common happily saw one side of the picture.
Example, the young RAF copper who spent 3 weeks in a hospital bed recovering from the injuries he received while carrying out his duties! Those injuries, deep gouges in his back from sharpened sticks covered in excrement inflicted on him by a group of women protesters. Yes I know this person and he still has the scars.
How did it happen, he reached up to stop a protester climbing the fence. Just doing his job.

What a horrifying ordeal. Violence is rarely the answer, I have a bother recently retired from the armed forces so I know a little of the broad range of work the military do.

However, when set against the context of bombers capable of carrying weapons which can annihilate entire cities, being bombed with poo and poked with sticks appears comparatively trivial.

 

[Joker 1299]

What a horrifying ordeal. Violence is rarely the answer, I have a bother recently retired from the armed forces so I know a little of the broad range of work the military do.

However, when set against the context of bombers capable of carrying weapons which can annihilate entire cities, being bombed with poo and poked with sticks appears comparatively trivial.

And we are supposed to be a civilised society... being bombed with poo and poked with sticks is acceptable how, exactly?

 

[Amarillo]

And we are supposed to be a civilised society... being bombed with poo and poked with sticks is acceptable how, exactly?

It is wholly unacceptable.

My point is that annihilating an entire city would be a very great many times worse.

 

[Joker 1299]

It is wholly unacceptable.

My point is that annihilating an entire city would be a very great many times worse.

That kind’ve Goes without saying. Good night Tom.