Is butane really no good in UK Winters?

[YummyJaffaCake]

Hi,
I've read lots of threads already and aware that Propane is of course more effective at lower temperatures, but is this really what to expect of Butane limitations at 6.5C tonight?

I've checked the bottle which is at least half full, and when not attached is flowing well. Once connected the vid here is the best I'm getting. Same system worked perfectly just a few weeks ago.

If this is the case, has anyone successfully converted to Propane, if so what tanks and regulator swaps are you using to fit?

Thanks
Sarah

https://gloucestershirewt-my.sharepoint.com/:v:/g/personal/kevinc_gloucestershirewildlifetrust_co_uk/EVZUTyN64xZFoylgVbqx-OMBapRCYiV4CZVAaPPKMUK21A?e=q38Tis

^vid link of butane flame @6.5c

 

[chockswahay]

We have ran ours when outside temperature just around/below zero with no real problems…..maybe a bit reluctant to light but once it does does just blow gently on the flame and it will fully light around the ring.

 

[Calimili]

outside 6.5°C what about inside?
A month ago was up in the mountains in Italy, 3° at night, 4.5° in the morning but I could use the stove with no problems. I did keep the heating on at level 1 all night, so the inside temp was well above 10-15°, probably the Gas bottle received some of that heat.

 

[chockswahay]

We haven’t had the heating on overnight but still no issues

 

[Wildcamper]

The boiling point of butane is -1C and of propane is -42C. So if the temperature of the bottle is close to -1C the vapour pressure will be low if using butane. If you are using propane no need to worry.

 

[Crasher]

Stranded at Tan Hill last year and -10 Battery failed and night heater not working .Butane never stopped working and cooked all meals and melted snow for water.Think water tank insulates well .

 

[kurienp]

Hi,
I've read lots of threads already and aware that Propane is of course more effective at lower temperatures, but is this really what to expect of Butane limitations at 6.5C tonight?

I've checked the bottle which is at least half full, and when not attached is flowing well. Once connected the vid here is the best I'm getting. Same system worked perfectly just a few weeks ago.

If this is the case, has anyone successfully converted to Propane, if so what tanks and regulator swaps are you using to fit?

Thanks
Sarah

https://gloucestershirewt-my.sharepoint.com/:v:/g/personal/kevinc_gloucestershirewildlifetrust_co_uk/EVZUTyN64xZFoylgVbqx-OMBapRCYiV4CZVAaPPKMUK21A?e=q38Tis

View attachment 102745
^vid link of butane flame @6.5c

View attachment 102744

Coming at it from a different angle - Do you have sufficient gas in the bottle?

 

[kurienp]

Coming at it from a different angle - Do you have sufficient gas in the bottle?

weigh the bottle and use the chart below.

 

[YummyJaffaCake]

Coming at it from a different angle - Do you have sufficient gas in the bottle?

yes, took it out and can feel half full at least with liquid butane. opened the valve and it flowed gas well... i think everyone with stories of gas working at low temps must have been in the cali with it heated for a day as my tank is so insulated from the living area (inside a tank of cold water) it would not warm for several hours

 

[Wildcamper]

Do you have a "sticky" regulator? Stuck closed.

 

[Kingfisher]

You could maybe keep the bottle indoors at room temperature for some time, and then try again? If the problem persists, this would rule out the butane gas temperature being the problem.

 

[YummyJaffaCake]

You could maybe keep the bottle indoors at room temperature for some time, and then try again? If the problem persists, this would rule out the butane gas temperature being the problem.

now that's a plan!

 

[chockswahay]

Hi,
I've read lots of threads already and aware that Propane is of course more effective at lower temperatures, but is this really what to expect of Butane limitations at 6.5C tonight?

I've checked the bottle which is at least half full, and when not attached is flowing well. Once connected the vid here is the best I'm getting. Same system worked perfectly just a few weeks ago.

If this is the case, has anyone successfully converted to Propane, if so what tanks and regulator swaps are you using to fit?

Thanks
Sarah

https://gloucestershirewt-my.sharepoint.com/:v:/g/personal/kevinc_gloucestershirewildlifetrust_co_uk/EVZUTyN64xZFoylgVbqx-OMBapRCYiV4CZVAaPPKMUK21A?e=q38Tis

View attachment 102745
^vid link of butane flame @6.5c

View attachment 102744

I just watched the video…… that is how our flame looks sometimes just after ignition….. then as I said I just blow on it gently to get the flame to spread and then it’s all good.

Did you try beyond the fist few seconds?

 

[YummyJaffaCake]

I just watched the video…… that is how our flame looks sometimes just after ignition….. then as I said I just blow on it gently to get the flame to spread and then it’s all good.

Did you try beyond the fist few seconds?

Yes it just extinguishes, works fine in the prior warmer weeks so i honestly think its just too cold unless you are residing in the cali. I tend to drive it 30 mins and want a brew. others seem to be quoting experience from living/driving in the cali. Do you think if you went to yours now (assume you are at home) would the butane light for a kettle boil?

 

[yossarian]

Butane will cool via latent heat of vaporization and reach an equilibrium where the heat flow through the bottle skin into primarily the wetted area is equal to latent heat removed by vapour offtake. If this equilibrium is below the minimum cooker flow or minimum regulator input then you won't have a sustainable flame.

My internal cooker has always worked in the past but my externally stored butane bottle is won't run anything in the cold. I've changed that to propane.

 

[chockswahay]

Yes it just extinguishes, works fine in the prior warmer weeks so i honestly think its just too cold unless you are residing in the cali. I tend to drive it 30 mins and want a brew. others seem to be quoting experience from living/driving in the cali. Do you think if you went to yours now (assume you are at home) would the butane light for a kettle boil?

Ooh that was a gauntlet

So I had to go and give it a go…..
The van has stood still for the last two weeks, I even emptied the (normally insulating) water from the tank yesterday. Temp outside right now is 3c, overnight it was zero.

Maybe you do have a problem then?

 

[YummyJaffaCake]

Ooh that was a gauntlet

So I had to go and give it a go…..View attachment 102836
The van has stood still for the last two weeks, I even emptied the (normally insulating) water from the tank yesterday. Temp outside right now is 3c, overnight it was zero.

Maybe you do have a problem then?

OMG! so unfair! i defo have an issue. Bonkers its a 2016 low mileage cali in mint condition, gonna bring that butane in weigh it and warm it....

 

[jimmywease]

OMG! so unfair! i defo have an issue. Bonkers its a 2016 low mileage cali in mint condition, gonna bring that butane in weigh it and warm it....

I posted about an issue using a cheap butane stove in the cold last year. In hindsight, I think the stove was faulty, as it’s replacement has had no such problems.

Thread 'Campingaz Cartridge Cold Weather Problem'
https://vwcaliforniaclub.com/threads/campingaz-cartridge-cold-weather-problem.39861/

 

[sbmcd]

Normally no issues with butane at all at those temperatures, it's on ski trips with seriously minus temperatures we had issues and that is why we now use propane.

 

[scottk]

You could try checking your valve under stove if fully open and another regulator in case your current one is faulty. Try another gas canister if there is someone near you who could help out?
That way you at least have excluded some possible failure points.

 

[Henry the human fly]

I've just checked mine and it's -1 outside with snow, last night -4 or lower. Working perfectly. We had a problem like yours and I eliminated every potential issue except the regulator. Replaced that and had no problems since in any weather.

 

[Kingfisher]

OMG! so unfair! i defo have an issue. Bonkers its a 2016 low mileage cali in mint condition, gonna bring that butane in weigh it and warm it....

It could well be your regulator, they do not have infinite lives. Here they make us change them every five years I believe.

 

[YummyJaffaCake]

OK so took butane cylinder inside to warm, weighed it and results are 40% full. 24 hours of central heating later and no flame took regulator inside and cant blow either way thru it, even tried some compressed air. Its an original perfect condition Gok gas regulator from 2016 when vehicle was new. Blowed thru gas lines to hob (lung pressure) and all flowed easily, gas cylinder also vents gas energetically when not on regulator. Very weird as this all only developed when things got cold. Will hopefully being making tea when the new £46 Gok gas regulator arrives from campervan bits. Thanks for all the advice, not sure i wanted to be a butane expert but there's not much i haven't read and learnt from this vast forum of experience. Great resource for cali fans.

 

[chockswahay]

OK so took butane cylinder inside to warm, weighed it and results are 40% full. 24 hours of central heating later and no flame took regulator inside and cant blow either way thru it, even tried some compressed air. Its an original perfect condition Gok gas regulator from 2016 when vehicle was new. Blowed thru gas lines to hob (lung pressure) and all flowed easily, gas cylinder also vents gas energetically when not on regulator. Very weird as this all only developed when things got cold. Will hopefully being making tea when the new £46 Gok gas regulator arrives from campervan bits. Thanks for all the advice, not sure i wanted to be a butane expert but there's not much i haven't read and learnt from this vast forum of experience. Great resource for cali fans.

Well done Sarah, that sounds like a nice piece of detective work with a good result

Out of interest I was checking the heater in the van today and the inside of the van was just around zero….. I tried the gas……. still working!

 

[BikerGran]

OK so took butane cylinder inside to warm, weighed it and results are 40% full. 24 hours of central heating later and no flame took regulator inside and cant blow either way thru it, even tried some compressed air. Its an original perfect condition Gok gas regulator from 2016 when vehicle was new. Blowed thru gas lines to hob (lung pressure) and all flowed easily, gas cylinder also vents gas energetically when not on regulator. Very weird as this all only developed when things got cold. Will hopefully being making tea when the new £46 Gok gas regulator arrives from campervan bits. Thanks for all the advice, not sure i wanted to be a butane expert but there's not much i haven't read and learnt from this vast forum of experience. Great resource for cali fans.

Bit late to this one but I was having this problem some time after fitting a new bottle, it turned out the connection had worked loose but I wasn't smelling it because of course the gas compartment is designed to vent from the bottom.